What are Your Thoughts About the DPE System?

MBDiagMan

MBDiagMan

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Doc
The title is the question. It sure seems like there are too few of them. If there were more, it would take on a different scheduling and pricing structure I think.
 
I had to delete everything I was going to say…as It would not be “nice”…and probably be banned…
 
Frankly, I’m not sure what drives the cost of a check ride to change at the rate they have the past several years, but I’m quite certain that it’s not a supply and demand problem.
 
Sorry for the ‘stupid question’. Does DPE stand for designated pilot examiner in this case?
 
RyanB said:
Frankly, I’m not sure what drives the cost of a check ride to change at the rate they have the past several years, but I’m quite certain that it’s not a supply and demand problem.
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It IS a supply and demand problem…the same supply and demand problem that says they can make at least that much money flying an airplane.
 
MauleSkinner said:
It IS a supply and demand problem…the same supply and demand problem that says they can make at least that much money flying an airplane.
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I disagree. If there were DPE’s within 25nm of every airport around the country, I’d bet with great certainty that the check ride fees would not decrease. The free market hasn’t been controlling these rates.

You ever notice how various places will raise their costs after citing an elastic (variable) change, yet when that variable decreases in price, they don’t lower their prices accordingly? It’s a similar process here.
 
Unnecessary system. At what other teaching/training system does the student have to go to an outside source to take a test?
 
RyanB said:
I disagree. If there were DPE’s within 25nm of every airport around the country, I’d bet with great certainty that the for a check ride fees would not decrease. The free market hasn’t been controlling the rates.
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I would bet the same way, because they could make at least that much money flying airplanes…it’s not just supply and demand on the DPE side of the world, it’s supply and demand for pilots in general.

Several years ago I was approached by an FAA inspector wondering if I’d be interested in applying to become a DPE. I ended up declining, as I would want to keep the job I had at the time, and while I had a fair number of days off, I couldn’t plan them. I didn’t want to have to cancel checkrides to go fly, as I had to reschedule 3 or 4 times during my early training because the examiners got paying trips. The inspector commented that canceling checkrides for that reason was frowned upon anymore, so it was probably just as well.

So what you end up with is full-time DPEs who need to charge enough to justify not having a flying job that pays more than they make, or part-time DPEs who can only do limited numbers of checkrides because they have a “real” job. The free market is controlling the rates, but it’s the jet pilot market.
 
ateamer said:
Unnecessary system. At what other teaching/training system does the student have to go to an outside source to take a test?
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I recall having to take a driving test from a state inspector after taking driver ed at my high school. Now this was in 1968, so things might have changed, but my kids also had to take their driving tests from the state. So, anyway, there's one example.
 
ateamer said:
At what other teaching/training system does the student have to go to an outside source to take a test?
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Took a two day State exam for my Professional Engineer License after graduating from Engineering School. I think even Barbers and Cosmeticians have to take a State Test.

I did have (and passed) a check ride for my ASES (Light Sport) from a different CFI than my instructor. To get the full ASES, it would have been with a DPE. The CFI ride was included in the training fee, the DPE would have been an additional $500. Since I have no plans to fly anything but LSA, I passed on the DPE.

Cheers
 
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Hi. I've been a DPE almost 2 years now.

I also wish there were more DPE's. I'd love it if every semi reasonable sized airport had one. In the "old days" when I was learning to fly in Iowa it seemed that was the case. But the entire industry has changed since then. Not as many small town FBO's, flight schools etc. Not as many FAA inspectors to provide oversight either...

In the Wichita FSDO the bulk of the DPE's (myself included) are centered on Wichita with a few out west. Myself and one other guy do a lot of travelling.

I like being part of the training world again and nothing is more fun than handing someone a temporary certificate and getting to congratulate them on the culmination of a lot of effort.

When I started I had a "real" job and was a part time DPE. The "real" job has evaporated and at the moment I'm more or less a full time DPE. It has its up and downsides. On one hand I theoretically get to set my own schedule. On the other its pretty hard to say no when I'm getting a couple calls a day. I wouldn't mind spending more time in the left seat though. But on the other hand...if I want to fly 3 or 4 glider contests a year...
 
DPEuber for better scheduling, cancellation fees, ratings and reviews included!
I wouldn't want a designee at each airport for many reasons...and if I were a DPE I would find ways to go to the demand and fatten up while the sun shines ...And how many exams or fees can be gotten in one day? That's the rubber- the ono on one is the bottle neck
...and why shouldn't the applicant fly to the DPE..
 
Tony, in your opinion, why is there a shortage of DPE's?
 
What are we trying to solve here? Pricing? Availability? Quality of examination?

ARound the DFW area, prices vary only a very slight amount between DPE for the various exams, typically $700 for something 1/2 day or less and $1000 for the CFI initials which can take up much of the day.

Availability and quality kinda go together. While we have a decent amount of examiners, it appears that 5 or 6 are getting the most online mentions and bookings. For these, it’s not unusual for them to be booked 4-5 weeks in advance.

We also have a few recent new names and at least two I am aware of wrapping up their training and qualification.
 
Many years ago, I applied to become an aviation medical examiner. The FAA said they already had enough in my area. For a county of 5500 square miles, they thought three was enough, and maybe it would have been, except one of those three had died, and another had moved to Minnesota, which you would think they knew.

If the same logic is in play in deciding where a DPE is needed, no wonder there is a shortage. I never bothered again after that.

Jon
 
Each DPE must be inspected once a year. A FSDO with a lot of DPEs have to spend more man hours inspecting them.
 
It reminds me of a quote from Hogan's Heroes. Schultz - "It's no wonder we can't win a war. All we ever do is inspect each other."
 
Most of the check rides I have taken with a DPE were well done.

It surprises me how little most DPEs charge.

I suspect the oversight of DPEs consumes a lot of hours.

In the Sport Pilot world where a CFI can perform an add-on proficiency check ride I have seen a lot of people pass who I feel shouldn’t.

As a CFI I feel totally unqualified to give a proficiency check ride to an add-on CFI and yet it is legal.

I feel more oversight would have value for both CFIs and DPEs.
 
Clip4 said:
Each DPE must be inspected once a year. A FSDO with a lot of DPEs have to spend more man hours inspecting them.
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Yes, and that’s their job.
 
murphey said:
You could consider it the ultimate example of Free Market Enterprise.
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But it is not. If it were a free market, anybody with the appropriate qualifications would get a designation rather than it being handed out by the corrupt cronyistic system the FAA uses.
 
murphey said:
You could consider it the ultimate example of Free Market Enterprise.
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It's not free market if the government limits the number of DPEs it designates. It's more of a medieval guild system.
 
It's getting confusing here as to what the gripe is. Are you guys complaining there are not enough DPE's, or are you complaining on what the DPE charges?
 
Brad Z said:
...among a bazillion other things. The FAA can't take on more examiners than they are reasonably able to oversee.
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The answer is not more examiners.

If one looks on the FAA website, they can look up all the DPE's in their district. There are several. However, the problem begins because some DPE's are more popular than others, shifting a higher demand to a few DPE's while lowering demand on others. This creates the scheduling backlog.

Perhaps the FAA should create a system in which a request for a check ride goes into a pool and is randomly assigned to a DPE to even out the checks across the board? This would decrease the backlog and get some a quicker check ride. But, as one could imagine, this system would anger many as they would not be allowed to go to the "favorite" DPE by choice.

As far as cost? I think what's being charged is not out of line with the market.

Remember, it was public demand to shift more check rides to DPE's to avoid taking a check ride with an ASI, which BTW, was a public service and free.
 
Brad Z said:
...among a bazillion other things. The FAA can't take on more examiners than they are reasonably able to oversee.
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I would respectfully reply back that that’s the FAA’s job to figure out how to get things done.
 
Brad Z said:
...among a bazillion other things. The FAA can't take on more examiners than they are reasonably able to oversee.
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Maybe they should designate some people to oversee the designees. Sort of a multilevel marketing thing.
 
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Yes, and each level above gets a cut of the fees. Multilevel Amway DPE exams!
 
Robert Gee said:
...and why shouldn't the applicant fly to the DPE..
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Are they not allowed to do that now?

I flew the plane to then examiner for my PPL. It was just 27 nm and almost due west of the home airport, so pretty easy to get there. Fun flying over as a student pilot signed off for the flight by my CFI and then flew back a Private Pilot.
 
wayne said:
Are they not allowed to do that now?

I flew the plane to then examiner for my PPL. It was just 27 nm and almost due west of the home airport, so pretty easy to get there. Fun flying over as a student pilot signed off for the flight by my CFI and then flew back a Private Pilot.
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It depends on proximity the airspace you are located and distance. As with sports, testing at your home airport and flying in your local area has a home court advantage.
 
Clip4 said:
It depends on proximity the airspace you are located and distance. As with sports, testing at your home airport and flying in your local area has a home court advantage.
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Because, you know, while demonstrating knowledge about different airspace and stuff on the oral is ok, you certainly don’t want to have to demonstrate actual proficiency in flight. :rolleyes:
 
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