What are some Common Problems of older Planes

easik

easik

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easik
I'm doing a video to cover some of the most common problems many older airplanes have. Particularly aircraft that are more than 40 years old.
Can you please share your experience? what are some of the fixes you've had to tackle?
Thanks.
 
Old airplanes have old parts.
 
Old repairs not in the logbooks(if available) done poorly.
 
It's going to vary by type.

Mooneys are infamous for seeping fuel tanks that have to be re$ealed every decade or so. Bonanzas are known for prop problems and hard to find parts.
 
Corrosion in lots of places. Some corrosion may be relatively harmless such as bubbling up under the paint on a skin, but other kinds can be pretty serious if found in spars and other major structural components. And depending on where it is found and type, it will be very expensive to repair. Pretty certain most of 6 Pappa Charlie’s rental fleet has a wee bit of this problem.
 
One problem older planes have is they are not overburdened by fancy interiors, soundproofing, and lawyered AFMs. The resultant increase in useful load makes purchasers of the new examples look like stooges.

(Looking at you, G36/G58, but the Cessna singles are not immune to this either)
 
Old damage hidden in the logbooks is something that can happen.

A company I used to work for had to replace the steel tube fuselage frame on a Supercub they owned because the original frame was rotting from the inside out. One of the mechanics then found an old entry in the logs from the 60's where the plane was repaired after flipping upside down in the water while on floats. That log entry was made and then hidden when they stapled a transponder yellow tag over it.
 
easik said:
most common problems many older airplanes have.
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FWIW: Way too vague. You could easily end up with 100s of variables that do not apply to each other. Perhaps break it down to ops, mx, and support. Or by OEM/model. Trying to come up with a generic list of problems that can cover anything from wooden/fabric wings to all metal twins would lead to their own problems when you try to organize the data.
 
Windshields can get all crazed(??). After 42yrs ours was really bad. Fortunately they are still made (not factory) but installation is a major PITA ($$$$)

Interior trim plastics become incredibly brittle. Only solution is to baby them or pay for new interior pieces.

Door locks and door stewards seem to go bad. Our door locks work but the passenger door steward is busted.

Obviously old instruments, especially the Turn Coordinator, AI and DG.

Mags will always be needing some type of work but its more of an hours than time thing but at 40yrs old I suspect MAGs have been an issue or will become an issue.

Wiring gremlins related to lighting / flashers.
 
The most common problem if not being flown enough and shoddy annuals.

smoking rivets are pretty common. Leaking fuel tanks/bladders another. Leaking struts, worn pulleys, and cracking plastics are also common.
 
Purchased by owners who considered the purchase price a bargain without budgeting for the yearly necessary maintenance and repair costs, and then letting a long list of deferred maintenance accrue. The cheapest part of owning a plane is buying it. Nobody realizes that.
 
They use fuel instead of compressed air.
 
Paperwork, documentation - STCs, 337s, thing’s attached but not logged. Example - my plane. I bought it at a good price knowing I could go through it to get things documented. At purchase, the only thing I knew for sure was that the logs went back to when the plane was new (1976), and based on the A&P I used for the prebuy (which I had also turned into an annual), the plane had no prior damage. A&P took care of the missing 337 filings and I took care of the STC paperwork from the mechanic that did the original mods back in 1987 (it was now 2017). Then I flew it home. Took a pile of papers, tags, etc., and with the help of my own A&P a year later, paired all those tags up with the log books. Printed off all the manuals and supplements, and STC certificates and made a “library” for this plane that consists of 6 binders of paper, some original, some reprints. Was not difficult, just tedious.

Wiring - Some old and crumbly, some spliced multiple times, some with poor termination. Example: Taxi & landing light wiring in the front cowling had multiple splices (2 in one, 4 in the other). Legal, but not fine with me. Found when landing light stopped working. Another example? Marker beacon went inop this winter. Troubleshooting led to finding the antenna connection at the back of the tray broken (old days some would just gather up the coax braid and center conductor and directly solder terminals and stick em in the tray connector...vibration finally broke the coax braid-to-tray connection.

Cracked plastics. Panel cover. Fairings. Lotsa ugly. I have one more fairing to replace.

Corrosion. You can use all the Corrosion X you want on the fuselage, but you’re gonna miss some areas. Still replacing ugly screws here and there after 3 years.

Paint. Polishished. Touch ups with the help of paint matching by the local auto body shop. Looks decent, not new, not crappy.

Avionics. No real fix. Was already an IFR capable platform, old school without GPS or ADS-B. Added both last April, started Instrument training in November.

Engine. Going to replace a few hoses at annual that look like they are getting old enough.

It’s really fun (no sarcasm) to find things you can improve upon and make the plane “yours”. Still getting there. 3 years later. Might sell when I’m “done”.
 
Agreed with @Grum.Man regarding leaking strut and fuel bladders. Its hard to imagine any fuel bladder making it 40 years. But come 40yrs its probably due for another set actually probably the 4th - maybe 3rd if you are really lucky.
 
easik said:
I'm doing a video to cover some of the most common problems many older airplanes have. Particularly aircraft that are more than 40 years old.
Can you please share your experience? what are some of the fixes you've had to tackle?
Thanks.
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Higher density of worn components in need for refurbishment are more common, especially in deferred airplanes whose resale value do not pencil out the investment on a present day parts-cost basis, let alone labor rates. The second, and the one that is a bigger inflection point imo, is airframe support in this century is rather specious for certain of these 40+ year old types. It's a real threat to your capex going forward.
 
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Leaded fuel is one. Especially in certain regions, where the gas seems to have more lead in it.
 
Time limited things like wing life limit on some aircraft.
And what everybody else said.
 
Is this a metaphor?

easik said:
I'm doing a video to cover some of the most common problems many older airplanes have. Particularly aircraft that are more than 40 years old.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
A $45K 50-year-old 172 actually costs more to maintain than a new $350K 172.
 
I owned a 68 Piper Cherokee 140 for 14 years. Maintenance is a major concern for any aircraft that you own. I chose the Cherokee because there are a lot of them around, they are easy to maintain, parts are readily available, and nearly all aircraft mechanics are familiar with it. I bought it with 4400 total hours, a fresh engine overhaul, and new interior for $42k in 2004, I sold it for $32k in 2018 with about 4900 total time and 500 hours on the engine. It was a fine example of the type at that time as I had taken positive action to see it was well maintained and remained in very good condition. My average maintenance costs including some upgrades was about $2250 per year x 14 years or $31,500. Approximate total cost was $41,500 / 14 years, so less than $3000 per year not counting financing, hangar, insurance and fuel.

Older airplanes have some advantages over newer airplanes if you start with one that has few issues to begin with. A good preflight inspection is worth every penny. Buying it at the right price and in the right condition is paramount. Buying an airplane that is popular enough to have a good maintenance base is also important. Older airplanes have a long known service history of problems by type. Take advantage of that by eliminating those that have a high incidence of expensive service problems. If you do that successfully I think you can beat the odds and have fun flying too!

Good luck
 
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Corrosion/cracking of structural parts, worn out seat tracks/latches/rolllers, ill-fitting doors and cowlings, worn out wiring anywhere around the engine (tho not limited to), cracked plastic or composite fairings, pitted chrome on any oleo struts, worn out attach hardware and holes for shimmy dampers/landing gear torque links, broken strands/corrosion on flight control cables. High resistance in starting circuit due to old contractors, flight controls out of rig, cowl flap hinges shot, landing gear wheel corrosion, windshield/window water leaks, crushed composite ducts like environmental system ducts, worn/missing door seals, leaking fuel selector valves, corrosion of fuel strainer bowls, corroded pitch trim actuator components, damaged trailing edges of flaps, ailerons, elevators, rudders, missing required placards, worn out leaking fuel caps, fuel tank leaks, improper/missing/missed airworthiness directive compliance records, missing/invalid airworthiness certificates/registration, missing weight & balance/equipment list records, missing required supplements, inoperative instruments/equipment. the list goes on and on.
 
bflynn said:
It's going to vary by type.

Mooneys are infamous for seeping fuel tanks that have to be re$ealed every decade or so.
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If done right resealing isn't needed for decades. Bladders are a permanent fix. If anything goes wrong they can be refurbished in situ for about an AMU. Biggest problem for vintage airplanes is parts availability. Things like corrosion and wear can affect any aircraft.
 
MuseChaser said:
Purchased by owners who considered the purchase price a bargain without budgeting for the yearly necessary maintenance and repair costs, and then letting a long list of deferred maintenance accrue. The cheapest part of owning a plane is buying it. Nobody realizes that.
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That there
 
Half Fast said:
So the savings will pay for the new plane in a hundred years or so?
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It's not that, so much as people thinking that maintenance is proportional to purchase price. Especially the people that buy a million dollar jet, just to find out it costs half a million a year to fly it.
 
Not in my experience. 350K buys a lot of mx, hell a lot of everything, on a 50K sample that does the same thing. The truism of the "cheapest part is the purchase" has just not been the case for me. I've kept logs of all ownership costs, and I'm just now at matching capex on my airplane in all-in expenses, after almost 8 years. Mx only? I got another 7 years at the rate I'm going before I match capex on that account.

If an SR-22 cost 50K, I'd have an SR-22. IOW, it's not insurance and mx costs that keeps me from affording one. To each their own.
 
steingar said:
If done right resealing isn't needed for decades. Bladders are a permanent fix. If anything goes wrong they can be refurbished in situ for about an AMU. Biggest problem for vintage airplanes is parts availability. Things like corrosion and wear can affect any aircraft.
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Where is situ and what is their shop rate?
 
What are some Common Problems of older Planes

Many of them totally kick rear and most of us can only afford ONE!
 
bnt83 said:
Corrosion/cracking of structural parts, worn out seat tracks/latches/rolllers, ill-fitting doors and cowlings, worn out wiring anywhere around the engine (tho not limited to), cracked plastic or composite fairings, pitted chrome on any oleo struts, worn out attach hardware and holes for shimmy dampers/landing gear torque links, broken strands/corrosion on flight control cables. High resistance in starting circuit due to old contractors, flight controls out of rig, cowl flap hinges shot, landing gear wheel corrosion, windshield/window water leaks, crushed composite ducts like environmental system ducts, worn/missing door seals, leaking fuel selector valves, corrosion of fuel strainer bowls, corroded pitch trim actuator components, damaged trailing edges of flaps, ailerons, elevators, rudders, missing required placards, worn out leaking fuel caps, fuel tank leaks, improper/missing/missed airworthiness directive compliance records, missing/invalid airworthiness certificates/registration, missing weight & balance/equipment list records, missing required supplements, inoperative instruments/equipment. the list goes on and on.
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This was really a good post for me, as I continue to research planes that might someday replace my wonderful Bölkow Monsun. Reading it, I realized my plane simply doesn’t have much of that stuff (no doors for example, no cowl flaps, no seat tracks, no window seals, no oleo struts, no interior plastic) and that which it does have is either as new after 50 years or has been refreshed during my 10 years of ownership, with some ongoing effort but little cost. I’ll be sticking with what I have for a while. Likely until I have time as well as money to spend my days fiddling happily in the hangar, at zero labor cost.
 
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40 is old? Hell i consider that new flying a 47! Those 40 year olds have all that new fangled complicated stuff like VORs and attitude indicators...
 
easik said:
I'm doing a video to cover some of the most common problems many older airplanes have. Particularly aircraft that are more than 40 years old.
Can you please share your experience? what are some of the fixes you've had to tackle?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I have seen your videos, I watched quite a few when trying to decide what plane was right for me. Well done, I enjoyed them!
Thanks, Richard
 
Shepherd said:
Old glue quits working.
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Last summer I was participating in a YE event. As I was talking on the ground with the parents and the kids about to board the Tiger one of the ground volunteers wandered by asking if the wings were glued on.

gaaaaah duuuude shut your face hole!!!
 
Corrosion, ounce of prevention is worth 100lbs of cure.
For plastics like headliner, best option is to cover them with Ultraleather.
Finding parts...
 
woodchucker said:
Last summer I was participating in a YE event. As I was talking on the ground with the parents and the kids about to board the Tiger one of the ground volunteers wandered by asking if the wings were glued on.

gaaaaah duuuude shut your face hole!!!
Click to expand...

I was thinking more pre-war/post-war aircraft.
 
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