What Aircraft Should I Buy? - Bahamas Mission Edition

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FLEngineer

Filing Flight Plan
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FLEngineer
I've been flying as a Sport Pilot for almost 2 years now. The sole reason I got into aviation was to be able to fly from Tampa to the Exuma islands in the Bahamas, for a small property I'm building myself. After a long medical process, I'm finally moving up to a Private Pilot Cert, and I'm anxious to get a more suitable aircraft for my specific mission.

Criteria

Budget: $300k absolute max

Seats: Min of 4 (must be actually usable carrying 4 people)

Avionics: I've owned 3 LSA all with modern avionics. I can't imagine leaving glass and going with a 6-Pack. Open to purchasing an aircraft with old avionics with the intention of immediate upgrade, but I have no idea how much it costs to upgrade an old panel to certified equipment.

Ease of Flight: Crosswinds can be heavy on the North-to-South island runways. Something that lands easily is important to me. That said, I flew a Flight Design CTLSi for 100+ hours. I assume if I can land that thing over there, any aircraft with weight will probably feel easy to me...

Engines: Fuel economy and maintenance budget are important to me, so I've been limiting my searches to single engine. I know there are a lot of guys that don't like flying water with a single, but it's never bothered me.

Useful Load: I'm always going to be carrying some luggage when going across. Might not be a lot every trip, but I'd need to be able to fit 4 athletic/slender adults, full fuel, and 100 lbs of luggage.

Right now I'm wavering back and forth between the speed of something like a Beech V-Tail / Mooney or the carrying capacity of a Cherokee 6. I would love to buy something at a lower cost with a low TBO motor & old avionics, and then upgrade the panel the way I want it. But as said above, I have no idea how much certified panel upgrades cost, and I wouldn't want to wait a year for the work to be completed.

Any advice is welcomed!
 
A couple days ago, I went to the flight school at Whitted to get checked out in one of their PA-32 (Saratoga with fixed gear) precisely because I want to rent it to take family to the Bahamas. I think it would fit your mission well if you don't mind spending on 100LL. I'm also considering the C182. If I could afford it, I would buy a Cherokee 6 or Saratoga in a heart beat.
 
with a new PPL - you are probably looking at a fixed gear. I would say a c182 (depending upon your weights involved) - 206 is probably out of budget. Cherokee 6 fixed is another option
 
I'd go with a retract with that open water mission. Bonanza makes sense to me as well
 
a new PPL with no instrument (assuming) and no retract time will be brutal on a 250K A36. . Im guessing 15K easy.
 
I was gonna suggest twin, not because of the 'over water' thing but just because of having to carry 4 adults + bags extended distances. but I agree, A36/Lance/Toga are good options. also agree you'll need more ratings/endorsements to make these work but that shouldn't be a problem.
 
Anthem said:
a new PPL with no instrument (assuming) and no retract time will be brutal on a 250K A36. . Im guessing 15K easy.
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Yes this is a reality, but if he has the $ and would rather not wait then I'd still go for it. Moving up into a complex/HP and/or twin at some point is going to be annoying/expensive to insure early on, no reason to delay the inevitable if you can afford it now
 
This is right in my wheelhouse as I went through this same process several years ago. In my opinion, you are planning to spend way too much. I own a home in the Abacos and am over at least once a month. Here was my progression:

First plane - Piper Cherokee 6/ 260. Had almost 1000lbs of useful load and the ability to fly for 6 hours. I didn't need the 300hp engine to do what I needed to do. It was rugged and could fly everything that I wanted to and was invaluable when flying back and forth weekly after Dorian hit. The down side to this plane was that it was a 135kt airplane so any headwinds were a true pain. A basic 6 pack panel with a Garmin 430W and an autopilot made life easy.

Second plane (currently for sale) - Cessna 31Q. After several trips in headwinds that took almost 3 hours, I found myself wanting to go faster. Combine that with the second engine for redundancy and it was a no brainer purchase. Airport to airport is 2 hours in the 31Q and I still can carry enough weight. No real down side as it is fast and reasonably affordable.

Third plane (purchased with non flying partners) Cessna 421C. We just got into this plane despite me owning the 310Q outright. Cruising at 15-17K keeps me above the weather for the most part. Speeds get me door to door in 1.5hrs or less. The down side is the overall operational cost.
 
With 300k worth of hull, you may want to "Go Directly to IR" without passing Go. The insurers will all but fund the rating via avoided premiums in the first year alone.

PPL + IR + a few hundred hours will put the A36 on the table again. Despite the love of shiny glass, instead of a G36, I would look for early 70s "resto-mod" A36, as they often have 1600+ lb useful loads and equally capable (arguably more capable) glass options.

If, after all of that training, you lose the efficiency requirement, you could put any number of excellent twins in your hangar, 150k in your pocket, and dry-landing options in your overwater toolbox.

$0.02 :)
 
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schmookeeg said:
With 300k worth of hull, you may want to "Go Directly to IR" without passing Go. The insurers will all but fund the rating via avoided premiums in the first year alone.

PPL + IR + a few hundred hours will put the A36 on the table again. Despite the love of shiny glass, instead of a G36, I would look for early 70s "resto-mod" A36, as they often have 1600+ lb useful loads and equally capable (arguably more capable) glass options.

If, after all of that training, you lose the efficiency requirement, you could put any number of excellent twins in your hangar, 150k in your pocket, and dry-landing options in your overwater toolbox. $0.02 :)
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Yep. I have my 310Q listed for under $100K!
 
A full Garmin panel (G3X, G-5, GTN-750Xi, GFC-500, GTX-345) installed is going to run around $90K or more.

To carry 4 people and fuel and luggage, look at 6 place airplanes, and maybe the 182. My Mooney has a pretty high UL for a Mooney at 1119. But full normal fuel you are at only 670 pounds. 100 pounds of luggage and you have 570 for people. That is 142.5 pounds each.

And yes, insurance on a retractable without a lot of time and no IR is going to be brutal.
 
1970s Cessna 182. Add the BRS (parachute) and modern avionics.
You will have a long range, huge useful load, excellent reliability and serviceability, and in case of an engine out, the BRS will gently bring you down.
 
Oh no, I'm becoming one of those posters but here goes my suggestion: Piper Comanche. It'll carry 4 adults, full fuel and luggage. When I was looking for a plane with good UL and speed, my broker said about the Comanche that, if you can close the doors, it'll fly and I can confirm. The most loaded I've been was three adults (one heavy enough to count for two smaller adults lol), a heavy dog, two large suitcases (large and heavy as in going on an oversee trip) and a few smaller bags, plus full fuel and I was still 20 lbs under MTOW. Also, nobody on the flight complained about space or comfort. In fact, everyone fell asleep - I was the only one awake during that flight. Lastly, it sips fuel for the speed it goes. If I throttle back and lean it out, I burn 12 gph. Or, when I'm in a hurry, I firewall it and still only burn 15-16 gph leaned out.
 
k9medic said:
This is right in my wheelhouse as I went through this same process several years ago. In my opinion, you are planning to spend way too much. I own a home in the Abacos and am over at least once a month. Here was my progression:

First plane - Piper Cherokee 6/ 260. Had almost 1000lbs of useful load and the ability to fly for 6 hours. I didn't need the 300hp engine to do what I needed to do. It was rugged and could fly everything that I wanted to and was invaluable when flying back and forth weekly after Dorian hit. The down side to this plane was that it was a 135kt airplane so any headwinds were a true pain. A basic 6 pack panel with a Garmin 430W and an autopilot made life easy.

Second plane (currently for sale) - Cessna 31Q. After several trips in headwinds that took almost 3 hours, I found myself wanting to go faster. Combine that with the second engine for redundancy and it was a no brainer purchase. Airport to airport is 2 hours in the 31Q and I still can carry enough weight. No real down side as it is fast and reasonably affordable.

Third plane (purchased with non flying partners) Cessna 421C. We just got into this plane despite me owning the 310Q outright. Cruising at 15-17K keeps me above the weather for the most part. Speeds get me door to door in 1.5hrs or less. The down side is the overall operational cost.
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The 421 sounds exciting!
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
Oh no, I'm becoming one of those posters but here goes my suggestion: Piper Comanche. It'll carry 4 adults, full fuel and luggage. When I was looking for a plane with good UL and speed, my broker said about the Comanche that, if you can close the doors, it'll fly and I can confirm. The most loaded I've been was three adults (one heavy enough to count for two smaller adults lol), a heavy dog, two large suitcases (large and heavy as in going on an oversee trip) and a few smaller bags, plus full fuel and I was still 20 lbs under MTOW. Also, nobody on the flight complained about space or comfort. In fact, everyone fell asleep - I was the only one awake during that flight. Lastly, it sips fuel for the speed it goes. If I throttle back and lean it out, I burn 12 gph. Or, when I'm in a hurry, I firewall it and still only burn 15-16 gph leaned out.
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How fast are you going at the different fuel burns?

FYI, the RV -10 might be a fit for the OP’s mission. 1190 lb useful load and 165 knots on 11.5 gph.
 
kyleb said:
How fast are you going at the different fuel burns?

FYI, the RV -10 might be a fit for the OP’s mission. 1190 lb useful load and 165 knots on 11.5 gph.
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On the 12 gph I go about 150 mph TAS (which is around 130 kts). When I push it, I can get around 170 mph (which is around 150 kts) TAS. Can't beat the RV in terms of speed or efficiency, but certainly in useful load and space.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
Can't beat the RV in terms of speed or efficiency, but certainly in useful load and space.
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Baggage space is one thing. But they are 3 inches wider. I think most of us would like 3 more inches....
 
I think the useable 4 needs to be identified. So 4 pax being at around 600 is significantly different than if your 4 is 1000lbs. That difference means whether say a 182 and a host of other planes will work or whether you need to go to a “6 place” plane to haul 4
 
Something to consider for over-water is the additional weight and space for life vests and maybe a raft...
 
mandm said:
The 421 sounds exciting!
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I’ve had 3 414’s and a 421B, they are all nice to fly and if you ever put your wife in the back of one, she’s not going to be happy in anything less!! :)
 
N747JB said:
I’ve had 3 414’s and a 421B, they are all nice to fly and if you ever put your wife in the back of one, she’s not going to be happy in anything less!! :)
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Truth!
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It appears I left out some important data.

The adult weights at heaviest:
2 x 190
2 x 150

Runway Length: 2,400'
 
kyleb said:
Something to consider for over-water is the additional weight and space for life vests and maybe a raft...
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If you climb to 10-12k’ , you’ll be within gliding distance of land (almost) the whole time depending on the plane. I use this strategy when crossing the Great Lakes.
 
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