Sluggo63
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2013
- Messages
- 1,927
- Display Name
Display name:
Sluggo63
That’s cool. I wish we had that. Looks like almost the exact same screen layout we have, less the AOA.
Weighing Airline Passengers?
- Thread starter Palmpilot
- Start date
jimhorner
Line Up and Wait
It's not very nice nor politically correct how the plane is insulting the pilot. Schoolyard insults. tsk, tsk. Would probably be better to say something like "mentally deficient". Were you the so-described pilot here?
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 4,381
- Display Name
Display name:
Kayoh@190
It's not very nice nor politically correct how the plane is insulting the pilot. Schoolyard insults. tsk, tsk. Would probably be better to say something like "mentally deficient". Were you the so-described pilot here?
Heh - everyone makes a big deal about the Airbus saying it, but a Boeing will call you names too, it's just more subtle about it.
Larry in TN
En-Route
Actually, the Airbus says it to the pilot to tell him to retard the thrust levers. On the Boeing, the RETARD messages on the FMA is telling you the status of the autothrust system, not the pilot!Heh - everyone makes a big deal about the Airbus saying it, but Boeing will call you names too, it's just more subtle about it.
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 4,381
- Display Name
Display name:
Kayoh@190
On the Boeing, the RETARD messages on the FMA is telling you the status of the autothrust system, not the pilot!
Not sure that's true Larry - I'm pretty sure I can hear a faint snickering when it appears on the FMA.
Shepherd
Final Approach
I can't WAIT to see what the outcome of this will be.
"We would rather an entire plane full of passengers die than weight shame a single person." comes to mind.
"We would rather an entire plane full of passengers die than weight shame a single person." comes to mind.
- Joined
- May 11, 2010
- Messages
- 20,703
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- Display Name
Display name:
Snorting his way across the USA
Sluggo63
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2013
- Messages
- 1,927
- Display Name
Display name:
Sluggo63
Tantalum
Final Approach
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2017
- Messages
- 9,250
- Display Name
Display name:
San_Diego_Pilot
Is that 2 degrees, or is the 2 just a relatively derived figure it shows?
Also, I thought "RETARD" only came on in flare about 10-15 off the ground? Or is that an Airbus thing and the paradigm is different in Boeing?
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 4,381
- Display Name
Display name:
Kayoh@190
Different paradigm. See Larry's post. I made the comparison for the purposes of the joke.
EDIT: Just noticed your first question! Skipped right by it the first time. I'll paste from the manual:
Last edited:
Larry in TN
En-Route
On the Boeing, the FMA (Flight Mode Annunciator) shows "RETARD" in the autothrust section when the autothrust is retarding to thrust levers to idle. This occurs whenever, as Jordan said, the FMS is beginning an idle-thrust descent or at the flare in an autoland.
On the Airbus, "RETARD" is audiblilized in the flare to direct the pilot to move the thrust levers from the CLIMB detent to IDLE as the autothrust system does not move the thrust levers in the Airbus. I've never flown an Airbus, just ridden in the jumpseat, so don't know the systems to the same detail as the Boeings.
In short, the Airbus is giving a direction to the pilot while the Boeing is just annunciating what the autothrust system is doing.
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 4,381
- Display Name
Display name:
Kayoh@190
It’s an autothrottle command for an idle descent. Am I ready for the checkride?
Absolutely! I think you'll like the airplane. When do you start class?
Still TBD. They need to give me at least 30 days notice and they projected my training for June. Doubt that’s happening so it’s looking more like July. I’m excited to get back into it. I’ll only get to fly the 737 for like 8 months then I go back to school for the 757/767
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 4,381
- Display Name
Display name:
Kayoh@190
That's a good direction to go - typically the guys I run into that don't like the 737 were ruined by the 757/767 or 777 first.
Glad you'll be back at it!
Maybe it’s a Delta thing but all I see are guys complaining about the 737 on the Facebook pages lol. Looking at the bid packages, it does a lot of really good, diverse trips.That's a good direction to go - typically the guys I run into that don't like the 737 were ruined by the 757/767 or 777 first.
Glad you'll be back at it!
denverpilot
Tied Down
Maybe it’s a Delta thing but all I see are guys complaining about the 737 on the Facebook pages lol. Looking at the bid packages, it does a lot of really good, diverse trips.
Is “diverse” code for “you get to try out multiple three star hotels this week”? LOL
Upgrading from the Quality Inn to the Holiday Inn!Is “diverse” code for “you get to try out multiple three star hotels this week”? LOL
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 4,381
- Display Name
Display name:
Kayoh@190
Maybe it’s a Delta thing but all I see are guys complaining about the 737 on the Facebook pages lol. Looking at the bid packages, it does a lot of really good, diverse trips.
I dunno - I like the airplane, but the only airliners I have to compare it to are the MD-80 and E-190. We only have the -800 and MAX-8, but I like the way it hand flies (especially compared to the E-190) and once you get used to some of the VNAV quirks it's as straightforward as anything else. Many of our trips out of NYC (specifically JFK) are pretty awesome, or at least they were prior to covid. Back when I was in the right seat and had a little seniority all I did was 2-day transcons. One leg to somewhere like SAN, nice long overnight, then one leg home the next day. Do one or two of those per week for a 12 day month and call it good.
Then I needed to blow it all up by coming over to the left seat because...well...I'm a friggin' idiot.
(I'm actually happy in the left seat, but I do miss the ability to build a schedule of pretty awesome flying)
Last edited:
Larry in TN
En-Route
That's true for us, as well.Maybe it’s a Delta thing but all I see are guys complaining about the 737 on the Facebook pages lol. Looking at the bid packages, it does a lot of really good, diverse trips.
The complaints about the 737 are mostly about the cramped cockpit (obviously not from recent CRJ pilots) and the systems being relatively unchanged since the 1960s 737s. All true, as compared to the Airbus or bigger Boeings.
I've stayed on the 737, even though I've flown the 757/767 at a previous airline, for the seniority and trips. We fly all over North and Central America and the Caribbean. I think your 737s do, too. Lots of great layovers available, fewer red-eyes, and fewer time-zones to cross. Lots more hand-flying, too. No need to head back to the sim for landings like the junior pilots on the international fleets frequently do.
And, flying a 160kt target to Runway 29 at EWR on a gusty day builds character. LOL
dmspilot
Final Approach
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,169
- Display Name
Display name:
DISPLAY NAME
Heh - everyone makes a big deal about the Airbus saying it, but a Boeing will call you names too, it's just more subtle about it.
My plane likes to call me "Otto Pilot"
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 4,381
- Display Name
Display name:
Kayoh@190
Gotta love that visual, although flying it means I'm also likely getting beat to hell.
160 knots - that's sporty. Our upper-end landing speeds increased a little after we paid for the max landing weight increase from 144K to 146.3K. Last time I landed at 146K I think our ref was just a hair above 150. Gotta have a little extra headroom for those additional 12 folks we're cramming into the airplane (160 to 172). Hmmm...this seems like an appropriate place to tag @hindsight2020 just to get him spun up.
NoHeat
Final Approach
If you want to weigh individual passengers without their carryon baggage, the best choice would be in floor in the TSA scanners. It would require scanning the boarding pass to identify the flight or passenger.
Larry in TN
En-Route
My record was a 165kt target on that runway, but that was before Boeing reduced the max wind additive from +20 to +15. It was a +20 additive so 145kt Vref. Of course, I was following a 757.
Nobody wants to do that. It is just an audit to see if the current 190/195 averages are still valid.
hindsight2020
Final Approach
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2010
- Messages
- 7,000
- Display Name
Display name:
hindsight2020
160 knots - that's sporty. Our upper-end landing speeds increased a little after we paid for the max landing weight increase from 144K to 146.3K. Last time I landed at 146K I think our ref was just a hair above 150.
Hmmm...this seems like an appropriate place to tag @hindsight2020 just to get him spun up.
*Laughs in Cat E*
Funny you mention. So Monday, storms rolled in SAT and all hell broke loose on the schedule. Ol' Uncle hindsight is the only one to make it airborne on the 4th launch period. What do I get for my troubles? Wx Recall as the wheels are coming up lol. (Thanks a lot, SOF!) Oops. No fuel dump on this crotchety Century Series moped (aka fast as hell on the straight away, can't corner worth a sheet). So speed brakes to burn whatever little fuel I could before the damn wx forced me to divert to bum fog Victoria TX.
Coming around base to final, now a damn tailwind (thanks SOF! #2), gusting crosswind component to 25, so had to add gust factor to our ref speed. That was as sporty an approach I've had to do in at least 4 years (def not since my DLF hardship tour days). As always, can't see worth a damn from the RCP.
...Over the chevrons at 180KCAS. Ugh, this is gonna be sporty (8300' usable in front of me). As I mentally remarked to myself while on that rodeo clown flare I had to wrestle with in gusting crosswinds (remember, no "wing-low method" in this thing either, if you want to live): "play stupid games, win stupid prizes, play stupid games, win stupid prizes...wonder if the airlines are hiring"
Let's just say I played it "by ear" on the whole "no aerobraking during X-wind ops".
When the student (after he got his seat cushion out of his sphincter) casually inquired about the obvious during our lonely taxi-back, all I could muster was to pithily replied "You wanna be right, or you want to bring your student home?...". Honestly, best damn lesson in a .3 I've given so far. I am glad he got to experience that as opposed to talking about this on the sim, though I rather not have to do that again.
A f----- drag chute would be nice, but it'll never happen at this juncture of the life cycle. Ridiculous contraption, but it worked in the buff...when my co-pilot wasn't trying to deploy too early and explode it (STS) that is. lol. That's why the T-6 was a much better XC machine in my younger days. You could park that thing anywhere you can my Arrow. No .mil outbase kabuki, or constantly looking for Space Shuttle runways just to get an overnight better than Minot ND. I digress.
A man can dream....
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 4,381
- Display Name
Display name:
Kayoh@190
*Laughs in Cat E*
Hahahaha! Your response is exactly why I dragged you into this bro, and you didn't disappoint. That's friggin' awesome, man.
Last edited:
Busflyer
Line Up and Wait
That must be a 737 thing, not Boeing in general. The 75/76 displays IDLE on the FMA when you reach Top of Descent and at 25’ for autolands. I’ve never seen RETARD displayed.
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 4,381
- Display Name
Display name:
Kayoh@190
Curious - you had once mentioned that the culture at United was to turn the autothrottles off for landing. If you were to leave them on would you still have to apply the wind additives? I ask because our manual only has us apply the additives if the autothrottles are off for landing, but that almost never happens here unless they're on MEL (we push/pull through the clutches when it's gusty). So we're pretty much always at Ref+5, regardless of the winds.
Kritchlow
Final Approach
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2014
- Messages
- 7,884
- Display Name
Display name:
Kritchlow
Yeah... try to get exactly one person and their bag in the invisible scale. Not like the person in back of you is encroaching, or their two year old is running back & forth in it.
Kritchlow
Final Approach
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2014
- Messages
- 7,884
- Display Name
Display name:
Kritchlow
The AOA in the Bus plays into the entire flight envelope on the airspeed tape. You don’t see the AOA, but you see the results of it every second.
Busflyer
Line Up and Wait
We used to do the additives the way you do at your airline. Couple years ago they changed and we now do the additive regardless of whether or not you’re using autothrottles. (I’m not United)
Larry in TN
En-Route
Yes, it is different from the 757/767. The FMA on the NGs and MAX seems a little more advanced then the older FMA design on the 75/76. I don't know about the newer widebodies.
No wind additive if the autothrottles are on through the landing. We have to disconnect the A/T by 50', on the 737, when hand-flying so they're only on for autolands. I generally disconnect them at the same time as the A/P.
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 4,381
- Display Name
Display name:
Kayoh@190
We used the additive all the time on the 190, but I can't remember if that was a carryover from the US Airways days. Not sure what the other fleets do - commonality isn't our strong suit here! Heck, to this day we're the only fleet that turns the strobes on only once cleared for takeoff.
jonnyjetprop
Cleared for Takeoff
FWIW, the FAA has several different methods to determine average weights. CDC has data on body mass, so it’s more about weighing passenger and crew bags.