Washington DC SFRA Gates

1200AGL

1200AGL

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
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149
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Santa Barbara, CA
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Display name:
Paul
Last Thursday, I made a lunch run from HEF to JGG (Williamsburg, VA). I exited the DC SFRA through the FLUKY gate, as I had done throughout my training, and flew this route.

Would Potomac TRACON have allowed me to fly this course, provided I filed HEF to GRUBY?

That would have shaved off 10 nm and looked like a more interesting vista. I would have stayed at, say, 2700 ft until leaving the SFRA, beneath the Dulles Class B and the arrival corridor but above Quantico's delta space.

The DC SFRA Training Course notes say
Exit the DC SFRA by the most direct route.
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for "fringe" airports (HEF isn't fringe) but I didn't see any language to that effect for the normal VFR outbound case.

Just curious if I could do something like that in the future.
 
I've done the Brooke (BRV) gate. GRUBY should be possible, too. Just watch the special use airspace and Quantico Class D.
 
1200AGL said:
... for "fringe" airports (HEF isn't fringe) but I didn't see any language to that effect for the normal VFR outbound case...
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You're under no obligation to exit by the most direct route as long as you're following the full procedures (your own assigned code, atc comms, flight plan), as opposed to an abbreviated process put in place for a fringe airport. You'd need a clearance to enter Bravo, but other than that your route is yours to choose. Do make sure that you file for the gate nearest your planned exit point (you don't have to enter or exit by overflying the actual position of the gate), and that you accurately describe your planned route to ATC.
-harry
 
wsuffa said:
I've done the Brooke (BRV) gate. GRUBY should be possible, too. Just watch the special use airspace and Quantico Class D.
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mantakos said:
You're under no obligation to exit by the most direct route as long as you're following the full procedures (your own assigned code, atc comms, flight plan), as opposed to an abbreviated process put in place for a fringe airport.
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Thanks! I didn't want to push it on my first trip since earning my certificate, but I am going to try this on a flight I'm planning to PVG (Hampton Roads Exec.)
 
As long as you stay below the Bravo and out of active R-areas, and call any Towers whose D-space you transit, they don't much care where you go on your way out.
 
If Pilot A is cleared into Class B with an operational Mode-C, is he cleared into underlying Class D?
 
Jaybird180 said:
If Pilot A is cleared into Class B with an operational Mode-C, is he cleared into underlying Class D?
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Well, technically, you're not "cleared" into Class D airspace. By regulation, you need only have established 2-way comm with the tower (and, of course, not been told to stay out). Further, unless there's an overlap between the B and D spaces (in which case the B-space rules take precedence in the overlap area and your Bravo clearance is controlling), if you're going to go into the D-space, you'll be going out of the B-space. In that case, the TRACON should either coordinate with Tower for your transit through the D-space or hand you off to Tower.
 
Ron Levy said:
Well, technically, you're not "cleared" into Class D airspace. By regulation, you need only have established 2-way comm with the tower (and, of course, not been told to stay out). Further, unless there's an overlap between the B and D spaces (in which case the B-space rules take precedence in the overlap area and your Bravo clearance is controlling), if you're going to go into the D-space, you'll be going out of the B-space. In that case, the TRACON should either coordinate with Tower for your transit through the D-space or hand you off to Tower.
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And be ready to circle or something outside the D space if Approach doesn't hand you off but instead dumps you outside the B space heading for the D space.

NY Approach did that to me on a flight to Farmingdale - with less than 2 NM to go to the D space. By the time I called Farmingdale I'd busted the D space. The tower was mostly cool with it but we were both annoyed by Approach's tactic - apparently they did this all the time and the locals knew to expect it and talked to both at once but we transients had no idea.
 
TMetzinger said:
And be ready to circle or something outside the D space if Approach doesn't hand you off but instead dumps you outside the B space heading for the D space.

NY Approach did that to me on a flight to Farmingdale - with less than 2 NM to go to the D space. By the time I called Farmingdale I'd busted the D space. The tower was mostly cool with it but we were both annoyed by Approach's tactic - apparently they did this all the time and the locals knew to expect it and talked to both at once but we transients had no idea.
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If you were in comms with ATC, how can this technically be considered a bust?
 
Jaybird180 said:
If you were in comms with ATC, how can this technically be considered a bust?
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Let's say by some magical method I'm talking to an ATC facility in CA while about to enter a Class D in MD. I'm talking to ATC yet do you see the problem?
 
If you were in comms with ATC, how can this technically be considered a bust?
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91.129(a): Unless otherwise authorized or required by the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the Class D airspace area...
91.129(b): ...ATC authorization issued by the ATC facility having jurisdiction over the airspace concerned.
 
Reply "unable". That would have really confused them.
 
Ya know, once in a while this board learns me sumthin....

UNABLE! I love it...

Yes, I understand unable, but it never occurred to me in a particular circumstance... You see, Detroit TRACON has this nasty habit when I am crossing Lake Erie in the dark of night whilst using Lake Services for both Flight Following over the lake and for meeting the communication requirement to enter Canadian Airspace , of just as I am at mid lake, rattling off the usual " , , , terminated . . yadda ... advisories . . . yadda . . . CLICK!" Leaving me 20 miles from shore, 5 miles inside Canadian airspace, and not in communication with anyone...

I'm gonna give them a big, fat "UNABLE" the next time... This should cause enough clucking and flapping and feathers flying that you would think the fox just walked through the hen house... I can just hear the snarled command to "call the tower" that will follow that. Betcha I get to talk to the facility manager...

Interestingly, on the return leg, Cleveland Tracon has never dumped me, instead handing me off to Detroit who never fail to sound annoyed...

denny-o and Fat Albert the Apache...
 
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