Wanted: Used S-TEC 55x

FlySince9

FlySince9

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Jerry
My club is investigating replacing our failing 300A. We were discussing the fact that there may be a lot of used S-tecs out there at a reasonable cost. We would prefer something with a known history, ie; a mechanic knows the airplane it came from and the fact that it was working well when removed, (maybe for an upgraded system).

We are just in the preliminary discussions but any suggestions are appreciated...

Thanks...
 
IIRC S-TEC STC's cannot be transferred from the original airplane, thus used isn't an option.

But I'm still working on my first cup of coffee.
 
I'm very curious as to how you plan on getting a used one into the airplane and returned to service as well, any hints?

Personally, with the recent news of Dynon perusing STC for autopilots, I can't really think of any good reason to install S-Tec, or pay a premium for an airplane that already has one. I don't think you can even find a decent troubleshooting guide online and you are at the mercy of "the dealer network." When things fail they seem to be pretty expensive to fix.

I mean, will S-Tec even sell you an autopilot outright or provide installation data for a homebuilt? If not then I'd consider that even worse support than Garmin.
 
interesting responses so early in the A.M. That sounds like an instant K-bosh on the whole idea... thanks, I'll pass it on...
 
Not so fast everyone!

You CAN use a used STEC 55X. I did it. You have to send it back to STEC and they configure it to your aircraft (and charge you $1,500 for the privilege).

I bought mine from Nexair for $800, to replace my Cessna 182's STEC 55 that my avionics shop was convinced was bad. Nexair pulls them from Cirruses that are upgrading to the DFC 90 Autopilot. When I did it about two years ago, they had several in stock at that price.

So total cost was $2,300 plus installation. It was significantly cheaper than the $9,995 offer from STEC to upgrade with a new unit.
 
bnt83 said:
I'm very curious as to how you plan on getting a used one into the airplane and returned to service as well, any hints?

Personally, with the recent news of Dynon perusing STC for autopilots, I can't really think of any good reason to install S-Tec, or pay a premium for an airplane that already has one. I don't think you can even find a decent troubleshooting guide online and you are at the mercy of "the dealer network." When things fail they seem to be pretty expensive to fix.

I mean, will S-Tec even sell you an autopilot outright or provide installation data for a homebuilt? If not then I'd consider that even worse support than Garmin.
Click to expand...
excuse my ignorance on the subject... I'm not a mechanic so I'm curious... So, there is no way to have any different autopilot installed to replace the single axis 300A? And a side note, I don't understand your statement about the homebuilt since this is a production c-172...
 
Brad Z said:
Not so fast everyone!

You CAN use a used STEC 55X. I did it. You have to send it back to STEC and they configure it to your aircraft (and charge you $1,500 for the privilege).

I bought mine from Nexair for $800, to replace my Cessna 182's STEC 55 that my avionics shop was convinced was bad. Nexair pulls them from Cirruses that are upgrading to the DFC 90 Autopilot. When I did it about two years ago, they had several in stock at that price.

So total cost was $2,300 plus installation. It was significantly cheaper than the $9,995 offer from STEC to upgrade with a new unit.
Click to expand...

How does having a an S-Tec 55 and upgrading to a 55x come close to replacing an ARC 300A with a 55x?
 
bnt83 said:
How does having a an S-Tec 55 and upgrading to a 55x come close to replacing an ARC 300A with a 55x?
Click to expand...

It doesn't, but I'm pointing out that it is possible to install a used 55X. I'm sure the OP can speak to STEC (Genesys) to determine whether that solution will work for him.
 
Brad Z said:
It doesn't, but I'm pointing out that it is possible to install a used 55X. I'm sure the OP can speak to STEC (Genesys) to determine whether that solution will work for him.
Click to expand...

Replaced one head with a better one is a bit different than replacing an entire autopilot system with another one (servos, brackets, chains/cables wiring, the works.)

Everything depends on the dealer network and their policies. If they require used parts to be "overhauled" by the factory prior to installing it maybe they have a flat fee system and a cost can be nailed down.

I would call several different folks in the dealer network, I just recently trained a longtime Garmin dealer that had no idea they could sell outright to the homebuilt crowd.
 
bnt83 said:
Replaced one head with a better one is a bit different than replacing an entire autopilot system with another one (servos, brackets, chains/cables wiring, the works.)

Everything depends on the dealer network and their policies. If they require used parts to be "overhauled" by the factory prior to installing it maybe they have a flat fee system and a cost can be nailed down.

I would call several different folks in the dealer network, I just recently trained a longtime Garmin dealer that had no idea they could sell outright to the homebuilt crowd.
Click to expand...

My understanding at the time was that this was a company policy was a shift from how they used to deal with STC'd equipment that was issued to a single aircraft. It used to be that STECwouldn't budge, leaving someone with only the option of seeking field approval for installation of used STEC gear (or use on a ex-AB aircraft).
 
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We checked on this about 8 months ago. I removed an STec from my homebuilt and we were considering putting it into a PA32, but the feedback at that time was that the STC was per tail number.

Probably the current answer for the OP is a phone call away.
 
For clarity, the letter of authorization (LOA) to use an STC on any serial number aircraft has to come from the STC holder. The STC contains most/or all the necessary installation data needed to install the equipment in the airplane. Even if I had all the data and equipment from a prior installation it can't happen without a new LOA to do so.

FSDOs typically WILL NOT provide field approvals for autopilots because all the checklists/job aids (for the field approval process) written by lawyers says that these require an STC. If no STC exists then it may be possible to do via field approval, but the process is slow.

Then the other issue is most dealers won't install used parts that have no paperwork/traceability, so that is where they (installers) will require test/inspection/overhaul of them.
 
bnt83 said:
I'm very curious as to how you plan on getting a used one into the airplane and returned to service as well, any hints?

Personally, with the recent news of Dynon perusing STC for autopilots, I can't really think of any good reason to install S-Tec, or pay a premium for an airplane that already has one. I don't think you can even find a decent troubleshooting guide online and you are at the mercy of "the dealer network." When things fail they seem to be pretty expensive to fix.

I mean, will S-Tec even sell you an autopilot outright or provide installation data for a homebuilt? If not then I'd consider that even worse support than Garmin.
Click to expand...

Where have you seen news that Dynon is trying to certify their units? I've seen news about Trio and Tru-Trak, but nothing on Dynon.
 
FlySince9 said:
excuse my ignorance on the subject... I'm not a mechanic so I'm curious... So, there is no way to have any different autopilot installed to replace the single axis 300A? And a side note, I don't understand your statement about the homebuilt since this is a production c-172...
Click to expand...
Unless your aircraft lists this equipment as part of the TCDS....with the original type certificate (TC)....you'll need some kind of supplemental approval to install the STec equipment.....either an STC, PMA, or a field approval.

Since STec holds their STCs under tight reign....the only way that happens is if you work thru a dealer and you might as well buy new vs. used.
 
bnt83 said:
For clarity, the letter of authorization (LOA) to use an STC on any serial number aircraft has to come from the STC holder. The STC contains most/or all the necessary installation data needed to install the equipment in the airplane. Even if I had all the data and equipment from a prior installation it can't happen without a new LOA to do so.

FSDOs typically WILL NOT provide field approvals for autopilots because all the checklists/job aids (for the field approval process) written by lawyers says that these require an STC. If no STC exists then it may be possible to do via field approval, but the process is slow.

Then the other issue is most dealers won't install used parts that have no paperwork/traceability, so that is where they (installers) will require test/inspection/overhaul of them.
Click to expand...

Right now, the official policy within the FAA is that ASIs cannot issue field approvals for auto pilots. Period. Full stop. There IS a process for getting one approved without an STC, but it involves a coordinated approval with the ACO, which makes it a much, much bigger process.
 
bradg33 said:
Where have you seen news that Dynon is trying to certify their units? I've seen news about Trio and Tru-Trak, but nothing on Dynon.
Click to expand...

I'm getting them mixed up. I should have said TruTrak
 
bradg33 said:
Right now, the official policy within the FAA is that ASIs cannot issue field approvals for auto pilots. Period. Full stop. There IS a process for getting one approved without an STC, but it involves a coordinated approval with the ACO, which makes it a much, much bigger process.
Click to expand...

My brother just got one approved that way and it took about 4 months.
 
bradg33 said:
Where have you seen news that Dynon is trying to certify their units? I've seen news about Trio and Tru-Trak, but nothing on Dynon.
Click to expand...

bnt83 said:
I'm getting them mixed up. I should have said TruTrak
Click to expand...

This one time, at Oshkosh, (couldn't resist that) I was talking to the Dynon tech guys about the STCs for the D-100 and D-10A. I asked if they disable the A/P controls and he said no, and that they are working on STC approval for the servos.

He didn't say it, but I know that the Dynon servos are the same for the D-series and Skyview. There's a path there. Given time of course.
 
bradg33 said:
Did he have to involve a DER, etc.? Or was it just paperwork?
Click to expand...

The autopilot manufacturer had all the data, STCed for several other makes & models but not his. It just went to the FSDO then to the ACO. Still took around 4 months.

I'm curious if there are ODAs that work these kind of projects. The 4 months at the ACO was probably man power issues more than anything.
 
rolivi said:
This one time, at Oshkosh, (couldn't resist that) I was talking to the Dynon tech guys about the STCs for the D-100 and D-10A. I asked if they disable the A/P controls and he said no, and that they are working on STC approval for the servos.

He didn't say it, but I know that the Dynon servos are the same for the D-series and Skyview. There's a path there. Given time of course.
Click to expand...

I think the next decade will be exciting in this area. Its already interesting to see the reaction from the big boys when the small experimental OEMs get their stuff certified.
 
bnt83 said:
The autopilot manufacturer had all the data, STCed for several other makes & models but not his. It just went to the FSDO then to the ACO. Still took around 4 months.

I'm curious if there are ODAs that work these kind of projects.
Click to expand...

I'm in a similar predicament. The airplane I'm buying has very few STC'd autopilots. But later models of the same airframe have STCs for STec units. Exact same airframe, but only the "D" and later models are on STec's STC. What FSDO did he work through? I could live with 4 months.
 
bradg33 said:
I'm in a similar predicament. The airplane I'm buying has very few STC'd autopilots. But later models of the same airframe have STCs for STec units. Exact same airframe, but only the "D" and later models are on STec's STC. What FSDO did he work through? I could live with 4 months.
Click to expand...

Birmingham
 
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