Want to buy an Aircraft Kit but Wells Fargo screwed up

X3 Skier

X3 Skier

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A couple months ago I got my ASES Light Sport certificate at Flying Fish in St Charles Mo. Just thought it was a nice change form my ASEL flying but it was such a blast I started to look for light sport amphibians.I wanted a Kit since I enjoy building and I can be sure it has what I want and not rely on the original builder. Having a Ultralight or E-AB also allows me to do my own maintenance.

I got my rating in a SeaRey and it was a great plane. Further searching lead me to others and the best for my mission was Aero Adventures and their Aventura HP Single Seat Kit. I have a partner in a LSA and a backup for a rental LSA. After checking out the Adventura II, the two seat version at Oshkosh and two visits to the company in DeLand FL, I initiated the purchase of the Kit.

Then the fun started. After signing the contract, I made the request for a wire transfer from Wells Fargo. Got a confirmation email the Transfer had been initiated. Two days later, no action so I called Wells. After a 20 minute hold I was assured the process was on track.

Later the same day, I get an email that transfer had been canceled! I called Wells and after a 50 minute hold, and two different people, I was told “the computer” flagged it as possible fraud and then “the computer” canceled it. The “process” should have been for me to be contacted for verification it was a valid transfer but for “some reason” that didn’t happen.

So my only next step, I was informed, is to resubmit the transfer request Friday after Thanksgiving. I was asked if I wanted to submit a complaint to “the Executive Office” to which I replied “You bet your sweet A**”. I am told I can expect to be contacted within 10 business days.

Aero Adventure has been completely understanding and eventually we’ll get this done, no thanks to “the computer” at Wells Fargo.

Cheers
 
The good thing is it is just a hassle that can be corrected. I vaguely remember a similar mess when I was paying for one of the larger sub-kits on my RV-10. I remember being pretty frustrated at the time, but it worked out (Van's was happy to take my money) and the kit eventually made its way to my driveway.
 
Don't know how WF stays in business after the criminal activity they were involved in a few years ago when the Justice Dept. nailed them for setting up fake accounts with customers without consent to meet sales goals. I'd stuff my money in my mattress before doing business with those people. Just saying.o_O
 
Archer Jack said:
Don't know how WF stays in business after the criminal activity they were involved in a few years ago when the Justice Dept. nailed them for setting up fake accounts with customers without consent to meet sales goals. I'd stuff my money in my mattress before doing business with those people. Just saying.o_O
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Too big to fail. My mortgage is with them, for instance, and flipping it elsewhere would be a PITA. Other customers with other types of accounts (car loans, credit cards, direct deposit, whatever) are more driven by convenience than any sense of moral outrage. So 95% weren't driven to change what they were doing on account of the malfeasance.
 
Your local bank would be happy to do a wire transfer for you so you don't have to deal with idiots. Unless your local bank is filled with idiots too, I guess. In which case you need a better bank.

How long do you expect it will take to build?
 
Jim K said:
Your local bank would be happy to do a wire transfer for you so you don't have to deal with idiots. Unless your local bank is filled with idiots too, I guess. In which case you need a better bank.

How long do you expect it will take to build?
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i use Wells since it’s convenient for my winter stays in CO. Might change this year:D. Local OH Bank better but no branches in CO.

The advertised build time is 250 hours. My plan would be 300+. No sheet metal, very few (less than 20) pop rivets. Essentially bolts and wiring.

Cheers
 
The world operates on behavioral algorithms… no one is actually at the wheel. That’s too expensive. It’s much easier and cheaper to resolve a few disputes. Also, non standard banking activities other than mortgages are difficult to model. Since I’m interviewing at banks right now, thats all I’ll say ;)

Hopefully it gets resolved! Cool plane!
 
For those interested, this is the Ultalight version. The HP Version is slightly bigger and higher performance/range that takes it out if the UL Category. Hope the link works:cool:

https://wixlabs-pdf-dev.appspot.com/assets/pdfjs/web/viewer.html?file=/pdfproxy?instance=z0lETa5yfp_V0hfyImJPYjsLa3i7maG2N2YSg_26ecs.eyJpbnN0YW5jZUlkIjoiNTBlZDlkMDQtNDQ4MC00MzY1LWIwNzMtNzRlNjM1NjgyYmFmIiwiYXBwRGVmSWQiOiIxM2VlMTBhMy1lY2I5LTdlZmYtNDI5OC1kMmY5ZjM0YWNmMGQiLCJtZXRhU2l0ZUlkIjoiMTFiYmVlMzktNjJiNS00NzJhLWEzOTYtOTEzNDQ0Mjk2NjdmIiwic2lnbkRhdGUiOiIyMDIxLTExLTI1VDE2OjU2OjQ3LjY0MVoiLCJkZW1vTW9kZSI6ZmFsc2UsImFpZCI6IjhlNzdlYjk4LTQwOWMtNGZlMi04ZmI4LWMxZTY3MGEyOWU3NiIsImJpVG9rZW4iOiI0MTU2NzMzZC0yNjM1LTA0NGYtMTNlNS1lNWQyNzE0MTRkZDAiLCJzaXRlT3duZXJJZCI6IjFiYTU3NDc2LWU1OGItNGM1Ni1hZWI2LTMyMWQ1NDM0YzVmZiJ9&compId=comp-kl8frlq3&url=https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/1ba574_cc883d72e1a0407095e3764dbc401923.pdf#page=1&links=true&originalFileName=UL Brochure&locale=en&allowDownload=true&allowPrinting=true
 
Looks like a lot of fun.

Hmmm 300 hours..... you could fly it to rough river! Get on it!

What's the lead time, if you ever manage to get them some money?
 
kyleb said:
Too big to fail. My mortgage is with them, for instance, and flipping it elsewhere would be a PITA. Other customers with other types of accounts (car loans, credit cards, direct deposit, whatever) are more driven by convenience than any sense of moral outrage. So 95% weren't driven to change what they were doing on account of the malfeasance.
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Not as big a PITA as you may think. May cost a little to refi, but with today's rates may pencil out. After one WF disaster after another, I did it. Took everything I had at WF and moved to a local bank, including the mortgage. Might have cost me a little for the refi, but so worth it.
 
Jim K said:
Looks like a lot of fun.

Hmmm 300 hours..... you could fly it to rough river! Get on it!

What's the lead time, if you ever manage to get them some money?
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7 Months, so no chance but there’s always next year:cool: The Lake is open to seaplanes:D

Cheers
 
And on some forum somewhere on the internet is someone complaining that WF did a 'clearly fraudulent' wire out of his account and that it will take months to get the money back.

I used to be able to do WF wires by just calling my banker. After the account fraud scandal they completely neutered the local bankers and the responsibility for wires etc. is now with some anonymous drone at corporate. The only way to do a wire these days is in person using their signature terminal and 5 forms of ID. It would be difficult to initiate a fraudulent wire if those safeguards are adhered to.
 
Welcome to the world of machine learning, using it to find anomalies out of all other transfers and flagging them for review. Sounds like WF needs to hire better data scientists.
 
This is one of the many, many, many reasons I am glad I live in a small community and only use a credit union. I can walk into my local CU and they know who I am and would jump through hoops to correct this kind of thing immediately, with profuse apologies. That is, if this kind of thing ever happened, which it hasn't so far (18+ years of being a customer).
 
As I read this last night, I was just thinking how glad I am to have retired from that particular institution a few months back to take my new position. I no longer feel the need to either defend or be embarrassed by their various faults.

I will say that many of the people I worked with over the years are absolutely some of the best and brightest. They are also leaving at an alarming rate. While I'm not going to go into great detail, I can fully understand how something like this could happen. Some banks have been called "too big to fail", but there are organizations that have gotten "too big to be able to do anything right".
 
The only screwups I can see are that:
- no human was deployed to call the account holder to confirm that he initiated the wire
- the disorganization and chaos in the call center that would cause a call center drone to blame it 'on the computer' rather than reading a script about their fraud prevention algorithms

I have no issue with the bank being a good custodian and making sure that they don't perform a potentially fraudulent near irreversible transaction.
 
PaulS said:
Why do they need a wire transfer? Tell them you'll send them a check.
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Truly. With a 7 month lead time, there's plenty of time for it to clear. Asking for a wire transfer so they can hold your money for better than half a year is a little bit unreasonable.
 
Clip4 said:
Something called a stop payment on checks I suppose.
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Once the check has cleared that's off the table, unless there is fraud. Checks are required to clear in a short period of time, especially compared to shipping a kit airplane.
 
PaulS said:
Why do they need a wire transfer? Tell them you'll send them a check.
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Their choice and not a big deal to me. That’s the next step if the second attempt fails but that assumes that the USPS, FedEx or UPS is more efficient that WF. Based on a number of threads in this forum about the FUBARS/SNAFUS by those esteemed organizations, that may be a bad assumption:D.

Cheers.
 
X3 Skier said:
Their choice and not a big deal to me. That’s the next step if the second attempt fails but that assumes that the USPS, FedEx or UPS is more efficient that WF. Based on a number of threads in this forum about the FUBARS/SNAFUS by those esteemed organizations, that may be a bad assumption:D.

Cheers.
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It's just a dumb choice for domestic transactions like this. If they are concerned they could request a teller's check, or set up an ACH transaction. Just so many other options, wire transfers are by nature a pain in the butt, hopefully WF didn't charge you to do it.

Banks irritate me.
 
Ditto the recommendation on the credit union. Mine is big enough that they have thought out procedures, an app and online banking, haven’t paid a fee in a decade, but small enough that a person is easily reached. Wiring with them was a combo of PDFs and an identity verification. They closed my local branch but I am able to walk into a different local CU and transact just as easily. Fidelity was trivial, perhaps too much so. Enter the details and click send, done (hope you got it right).

I want a ride in the Aventura when it’s done!
 
My wife retired from Merrill in 2014. The behavioral algorithms weren’t yet in full-swing. But they were human/relationship-driven.

I can only imagine how annoying they’ve become by now.

And, yes, you need a better bank than Wells. A coffee can will outperform them and their idiocy.

Personally, we now use Schwab for everything including banking. We can use any ATM anywhere for free.
 
I am a Wells Fargo customer. I have a checking account, savings account, and credit card from them. I use their online banking to pay most of my bills. I have never had an issue with them.

I am also a customer of Bank of America, another bank people love to bash for some reason. I have checking and savings accounts and credit card with them as well as my mortgage. Never had any issues with them either.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I am a Wells Fargo customer. I have a checking account, savings account, and credit card from them. I use their online banking to pay most of my bills. I have never had an issue with them.

I am also a customer of Bank of America, another bank people love to bash for some reason. I have checking and savings accounts and credit card with them as well as my mortgage. Never had any issues with them either.
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I have personal and business accounts with Well for years.

No problems, except home loan interest rates were too high.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I am a Wells Fargo customer. I have a checking account, savings account, and credit card from them. I use their online banking to pay most of my bills. I have never had an issue with them.

I am also a customer of Bank of America, another bank people love to bash for some reason. I have checking and savings accounts and credit card with them as well as my mortgage. Never had any issues with them either.
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I understand why current WF customers might not want to change any accounts, mortgages, etc. since it is such a PITA. But, for the life of me I can't understand why people begin doing business with them after the fake account scandal where they admitted wrongdoing and paid $3 billion in criminal and civil penalties. Can't imagine why anyone would trust a bank like that to handle their money.o_O
 
Archer Jack said:
I understand why current WF customers might not want to change any accounts, mortgages, etc. since it is such a PITA. But, for the life of me I can't understand why people begin doing business with them after the fake account scandal where they admitted wrongdoing and paid $3 billion in criminal and civil penalties. Can't imagine why anyone would trust a bank like that to handle their money.o_O
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You think that employees at other banks have not engaged in the behavior some employees at WF were caught doing. Lol.
 
Archer Jack said:
I understand why current WF customers might not want to change any accounts, mortgages, etc. since it is such a PITA. But, for the life of me I can't understand why people begin doing business with them after the fake account scandal where they admitted wrongdoing and paid $3 billion in criminal and civil penalties. Can't imagine why anyone would trust a bank like that to handle their money.o_O
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In theory, WF has changed its ways and ought to be one of the better options. Certainly, Berkshire doesn't put up with that stuff, and has probably put an emphasis on it NOT HAPPENING AGAIN.
 
My first accounts ever were with Wachovia, now absorbed into Wells Fargo. I still have the checking account (now joint of course) with legacy terms but we keep almost all our money in a credit union. I keep my original credit card account with Wells Fargo, they pay reward dollars, and our latest mortgage ended up with them against our explicit instructions to the relocation company that handled (and paid for) everything related to our move including our home sale and purchase. Turned out we had no control over who made the loan but since they were paying all fees, closing costs, etc. and they did get a good rate, we went with it.

Anyway it turned out to be convenient because I didn’t have to set up a login with a new bank and I can make direct transfers to pay it at the same time I pay the credit card. We keep minimal amounts in the checking account there, sending money from the credit union as needed.

Also Wells Fargo has a local branch here, our credit union is in another state so there’s that.

The old Wachovia was fantastic. My entire family of origin, and then my husband and I, and then our children, were all loyal to them until they merged with Wells Fargo when it all went to ****. Now I don’t trust any of the mega banks.
 
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