Wake turbulence - are you ready for it?

Martin Pauly

Martin Pauly

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Martin Pauly
A few weeks ago, an event in Fort Worth presented an opportunity to land at Love Field. I had previously been to DFW, and couldn't resist checking yet another Class Bravo airport on my bucket list. Blue skies with good visibility and calm winds made it an easy flight. Just before touchdown, maybe at 15-20 feet AGL, there was a sudden roll to the left, which took significant right aileron to overcome. I believe this was wake turbulence - nothing extreme, but certainly noticeable. Looking back, landing with a light tailwind (wind from 290, landing runway 13L), the conditions were there.

A good reminder that the flight isn't over until the engine is shut down at the FBO.

 
I had to do a 360 to avoid a P&G Gulfstream up my tailpipe, and ran into its wake. Yeah, I should have known. For something that only weighs 90K or so, it was quite a thing, with what felt like about 45° of instant bank before recovery. It was likely half that, but the rapid onset got me.
Something heavier would have been all kinds of trouble.
 
Yup, get it all the time here landing behind big corporate jets. I always stay way above their glide path and land beyond where they landed. Still occasionally hit some bumps.
 
I used to fly a Cessna T206 floatplane from Renton to River's Inlet and back every day.

The year before I was hired, one of the 206's crashed at Bedwell Harbor. He took off directly behind another 206 and rolled into the water due to wake turbulence.
 
PaulS said:
I always stay way above their glide path and land beyond where they landed.
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That's a good practice, and usually works well - except when there is a tail wind. Looking back, I should have recognized the wind would make wake turbulence more likely.

- Martin
 
Martin Pauly said:
That's a good practice, and usually works well - except when there is a tail wind. Looking back, I should have recognized the wind would make wake turbulence more likely.

- Martin
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Good point, I generally don't land with a tail wind and they are pretty good about switching runways, usually mid pattern, lol. I'm in a busy Delta that now is taking many more jets from Logan since they effectively shut it down to GA by eliminating ramp space for GA airplanes.
 
The wife's very first night flight was in a 172 and apparently under the approach path of a 747 descending into PGUM. That poor old 172 rolled 90° left and we lost a couple hundred feet before recovering.

Quite exciting all around. :D
 
I commuted daily to Tucson from my ranch and would almost always request the cross wind runway (21). Up to 15 or so knots is trivial and I could be down and off the runway before even getting close to the 12000' runway (12) the heavy stuff used. The C-175 I was flying was owned by someone who sold it to buy a Bonanza. Five days later he and his family were dead at Louisville KY from wake landing behind an airliner. Makes an impression.
 
Snowmass said:
I commuted daily to Tucson from my ranch and would almost always request the cross wind runway (21). Up to 15 or so knots is trivial and I could be down and off the runway before even getting close to the 12000' runway (12) the heavy stuff used. The C-175 I was flying was owned by someone who sold it to buy a Bonanza. Five days later he and his family were dead at Louisville KY from wake landing behind an airliner. Makes an impression.
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What year did that accident happen?
 
I earned my first license at Stillwater OK in 1970. Stillwater was formerly a world war II training base with three mile long runways at 120 degrees from each other crossing in the center. The university had a nice Beech 18 that had been converted to tricycle gear with two 450 horsepower radials taking off from the end of 35. I was flying a Cessna 140, beautiful day with a light northerly breeze and decided to do an intersection takeoff with about 2/3 of the runway left after the Beech 18 roared by. Being young and dumb and not patient enough I took off way too close behind the 18, just got airborne no more than about 30 feet off of the ground and too slow when I entered his propwash. That was a bit too exciting for the resulting low level aerobatics! A good lesson I have never forgotten.
 
I crossed the path of a 747 Heavy departing SFO. I thought he was well far enough away by time I crossed and I was above his climb path...wake turbulence sinks, right?...nope, didn't anticipate the winds aloft pushing the wake turbulence back vs being linear on his climb path.

It was like hitting a brick wall and we were all launched into the roof of the cockpit nearly giving be concussion and knocking me out. Yes we had out seatbelts on. Good times.
 
Was going into New Orleans and was on the localizer about to capture the GS flying a C 210, in solid IFR , controller tells me to turn right and do a 360 and rejoin the localizer as there was an airliner behind me, we made the 360 and caught the wake turbulence, airplane rolled hard left about 120 degrees before we could get it straight, at one point I thought about letting it roll all the way around, next time I was told to do that because there was an airliner behind me I told the controller unable make the big boy slow down or do s turns, they complied
 
strangebird said:
Was going into New Orleans and was on the localizer about to capture the GS flying a C 210, in solid IFR , controller tells me to turn right and do a 360 and rejoin the localizer as there was an airliner behind me, we made the 360 and caught the wake turbulence, airplane rolled hard left about 120 degrees before we could get it straight, at one point I thought about letting it roll all the way around, next time I was told to do that because there was an airliner behind me I told the controller unable make the big boy slow down or do s turns, they complied
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Unable, I would never do that and that controller should be in trouble for asking. Glad you don't do it any more.
 
kgruber said:
I used to fly a Cessna T206 floatplane from Renton to River's Inlet and back every day.

The year before I was hired, one of the 206's crashed at Bedwell Harbor. He took off directly behind another 206 and rolled into the water due to wake turbulence.
Click to expand...
The worst wake turbulence event I’ve had was in close trail of a 206 on floats. I was stuck in the draft. Took lots of power to get out. Not a hard hit like crossing paths with a jet fighter’s wake.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
I had to do a 360 to avoid a P&G Gulfstream up my tailpipe, and ran into its wake. Yeah, I should have known. For something that only weighs 90K or so, it was quite a thing, with what felt like about 45° of instant bank before recovery. It was likely half that, but the rapid onset got me.
Something heavier would have been all kinds of trouble.
Click to expand...

I HATE taking off behind a Super King Air. They are much, much worse than many corporate jets. Citations and Phenoms are easy. Challengers are a little more difficult. Gulfstreams has pretty big wings, which makes them tough.

Martin Pauly said:
That's a good practice, and usually works well - except when there is a tail wind. Looking back, I should have recognized the wind would make wake turbulence more likely.

- Martin
Click to expand...

I was surprised they were still landing that way with an 8 knot tailwind.

strangebird said:
Was going into New Orleans and was on the localizer about to capture the GS flying a C 210, in solid IFR , controller tells me to turn right and do a 360 and rejoin the localizer as there was an airliner behind me, we made the 360 and caught the wake turbulence, airplane rolled hard left about 120 degrees before we could get it straight, at one point I thought about letting it roll all the way around, next time I was told to do that because there was an airliner behind me I told the controller unable make the big boy slow down or do s turns, they complied
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm happy to do a lot of things in VMC that I wouldn't in IMC. If I'm flying in IMC, on an approach, unable is a big part of my vocabulary. Especially around wake turbulence or down to mins.
 
smv said:
The wife's very first night flight was in a 172 and apparently under the approach path of a 747 descending into PGUM. That poor old 172 rolled 90° left and we lost a couple hundred feet before recovering.

Quite exciting all around. :D
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And "Last night flight" as well? Yikes - can't image that happening to begin with, an toss in at night on top of that.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Interesting. I've searched several databases and it doesn't show up.
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I do know that the Bonanza crashed because the C-175 I was flying belonged to another Hughes Aircraft Tucson employee and he was on a first name basis with the dead pilot. Maybe my dates off a bit.
 
In Kotzebue, AK (PAOT), on a barely SVFR day I was flying a C-207. While I was crossing the threshold, a CH-47 decided to cross the runway in front of me. FSS guys warned me on the radio because the visibility was at minimums. It crossed from my right going to my left, so I turned right to avoid metal to metal contact.

The right turn put me right into the rotor wash. At about 50 ft agl. The resulting rodeo ride had me watching the ground wondering where we are going to hit. I mean that plane went every direction at once. It was all I could do to keep it off the ground, and I think luck had more to do staying off the ground than skill.

After what felt like 3 hours of the rodeo ride, or 30 seconds, the plane was flying again. I made a right 360 and landed and with passengers still on board, taxied straight up to the CH-47, exited the aircraft and had a ''discussion'' with the A/C commander.
 
Zeldman said:
In Kotzebue, AK (PAOT), on a barely SVFR day I was flying a C-207. While I was crossing the threshold, a CH-47 decided to cross the runway in front of me. FSS guys warned me on the radio because the visibility was at minimums. It crossed from my right going to my left, so I turned right to avoid metal to metal contact.

The right turn put me right into the rotor wash. At about 50 ft agl. The resulting rodeo ride had me watching the ground wondering where we are going to hit. I mean that plane went every direction at once. It was all I could do to keep it off the ground, and I think luck had more to do staying off the ground than skill.

After what felt like 3 hours of the rodeo ride, or 30 seconds, the plane was flying again. I made a right 360 and landed and with passengers still on board, taxied straight up to the CH-47, exited the aircraft and had a ''discussion'' with the A/C commander.
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This version was far more exciting. :rolleyes: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...mon-are-near-misses.74431/page-2#post-1547122
 
WDD said:
And "Last night flight" as well? Yikes - can't image that happening to begin with, an toss in at night on top of that.
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Haha... Nahhh. She is quite the trouper. After all, she rides behind me on the motorcycle.

Initially she went on her first flight with me (not this night flight) only after I kept bugging her for weeks. She was scared to death but she figured she would do it once just to say she did, then never again. I had a secret weapon, however. I handed her the digital camera and told her if she was getting nervous, just take a picture. We got back from that 30 minute flight with 250 pictures.

Three years later she was selected as Mission Scanner of the Year for the Hawaii Civil Air Patrol.

:p
 
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