Visa Queries & Seeking Insightful Conversations in NYC

Vcom

Filing Flight Plan
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Vcom
Hello Everyone,

I'll be in NYC from January 4 to January 12, exploring the possibility of pursuing a commercial aviation career in the U.S.
As a European citizen, I'm particularly interested in insights on the Visa and permanent work permit processes.

Currently, I don't hold any license.

I'm wondering if someone knows an instance/person I could visit in NYC to gather more information regarding this subject.

Thank you!

KR,
Andres
 
Immigration lawyers might be a good idea. Having said that, if you have no licenses at all yet, you’ll probably start out with an F visa. You just have to enrol in a school that can issue one. After graduation, you can work for a year on OPT. After that things get a bit more complicated and will depend on your situation e.g. where exactly you are from, how much $$$ you have, what kind of job you’re working, economy at that time, etc.
 
You will need a work visa to get a permanent job here. No airlines are sponsoring work visas (h1b, etc). Which will be necessary before permanent residency (green card). You would have to marry someone in the states to get residency/work permit/citiizenship). you can get a F visa to study here, and then work here for a little while as a CFI. but your options for getting a job with any airlines or 135 operators are low to negligible. And you would end up with FAA certs which would have to be converted to EASA certs to work in Europe. So consider your choices wisely.
 
You will need a work visa to get a permanent job here. No airlines are sponsoring work visas (h1b, etc). Which will be necessary before permanent residency (green card). You would have to marry someone in the states to get residency/work permit/citiizenship). you can get a F visa to study here, and then work here for a little while as a CFI. but your options for getting a job with any airlines or 135 operators are low to negligible. And you would end up with FAA certs which would have to be converted to EASA certs to work in Europe. So consider your choices wisely.

This is correct but so far, OP only stated that he is looking for "a commercial aviation career in the U.S.". While airlines currently don't sponsor H1B or other work visas that could lead to a green card for pilot jobs, they do for jobs in other fields in management, IT, etc. Also, even if he started college today, he'd be in school for 4 years + 1 year OPT. Who knows what the policies are in 5 years from now? That's why I mentioned in my post that after the OPT work authorization students get after their course of study, things become complicated and will heavily depend on his unique situation. Maybe he has a computer engineering background. In that case, he could get an H1B for a job in that field, work towards a green card and then go to the airlines. Or, maybe he (or his generous parents) has a ton of money in which case he could buy/invest in a business, become a green card holder that way and go to the airlines. The first part of the journey is pretty simple: F1 visa to study in the U.S. towards an aviation degree + ratings. Then, OPT to work as an instructor or whatever else as long as it's related to his studies. Then, there are dozens of different scenarios that could play out, depending on the country of origin, personal background, prior educational background, financial background, and more.
 
This is correct but so far, OP only stated that he is looking for "a commercial aviation career in the U.S.". While airlines currently don't sponsor H1B or other work visas that could lead to a green card for pilot jobs, they do for jobs in other fields in management, IT, etc. Also, even if he started college today, he'd be in school for 4 years + 1 year OPT. Who knows what the policies are in 5 years from now? That's why I mentioned in my post that after the OPT work authorization students get after their course of study, things become complicated and will heavily depend on his unique situation. Maybe he has a computer engineering background. In that case, he could get an H1B for a job in that field, work towards a green card and then go to the airlines. Or, maybe he (or his generous parents) has a ton of money in which case he could buy/invest in a business, become a green card holder that way and go to the airlines. The first part of the journey is pretty simple: F1 visa to study in the U.S. towards an aviation degree + ratings. Then, OPT to work as an instructor or whatever else as long as it's related to his studies. Then, there are dozens of different scenarios that could play out, depending on the country of origin, personal background, prior educational background, financial background, and more.

As you said - he would have to pursue an H1B outside of aviation with a company willing to sponsor. The salary minimum is 60+K right now, masters degree is a big help, higher salary helps, company doing it with a track record helps. European citizenship will not be a detriment (like other nationalities). It'll take ~5 years (more than 1 h1b cycle) and he should be eligible for applying for "green card". then once he has that - he can pursue aviation afterward. But I would absolutely go the non-aviation route to get work permit / residency over the aviation route. The aviation route hits a dead end pretty soon after the F1 / M1 and OPT. Keep in mind - that for an H1B visa - you are allowed to hold multiple jobs, but they must be in the same field (and 2nd employer much file another concurrent petition). So you cant be an engineer and work part time as a CFI. Which is ironic because summer workers on J1 visas are allowed to work multiple jobs (which they frequently do).
 
Hello, I appreciate the insightful responses so far!

To provide more context, I've got a solid grasp of the licensing process — the F-visa, accumulating flight hours, and the subsequent proficiency requirements.
However, my concern lies in the post-training phase, particularly regarding the necessity of obtaining a (permanent) work permit to secure a position with an airline.

A bit about my background: I am a Belgian citizen equipped with a Bachelor's degree in computer science, boasting five years of experience in the field as of 2024.
My ambition is to transition into a pilot career, and due to medical constraints, pursuing this dream under FAA regulations in the U.S. is my only viable path. I currently hold an FAA class 1.

I've considered options like securing a job in my IT profession (H1B) and subsequently transitioning to pursue my pilot training, as mentioned earlier. However, the legality and feasibility of such steps are areas where I'm seeking clarity.
Ideally, I would avoid applying for an IT job and moving to aviation, but It seems like this is one of my only options?


So would an immigration lawyer be a help for my issue you think?
 
Hello, I appreciate the insightful responses so far!

To provide more context, I've got a solid grasp of the licensing process — the F-visa, accumulating flight hours, and the subsequent proficiency requirements.
However, my concern lies in the post-training phase, particularly regarding the necessity of obtaining a (permanent) work permit to secure a position with an airline.

A bit about my background: I am a Belgian citizen equipped with a Bachelor's degree in computer science, boasting five years of experience in the field as of 2024.
My ambition is to transition into a pilot career, and due to medical constraints, pursuing this dream under FAA regulations in the U.S. is my only viable path. I currently hold an FAA class 1.

I've considered options like securing a job in my IT profession (H1B) and subsequently transitioning to pursue my pilot training, as mentioned earlier. However, the legality and feasibility of such steps are areas where I'm seeking clarity.
Ideally, I would avoid applying for an IT job and moving to aviation, but It seems like this is one of my only options?


So would an immigration lawyer be a help for my issue you think?

Its your only real option. You at least have a degree in computer science which is slightly more helpful of a field than say working in some other non-stem field. The issue is that you need a company sponsor - and the position has to be at least high paying enough to sponsor because of the hassle of doing so. The company has to pay for the sponsorship - and generally use an immigration attorney. It runs about 4-5K. So you have to be worth it for them to pursue - which is why higher paying jobs work better.

The best option is to get an masters degree, then you get OPT for another year - and during that time you can continue on your ratings) and get a job with someone who will sponsor you for h1b. But you still have to get a job with a company that will sponsor and get through the sponsorship process. And then continue to work and hold that job down the entire time.

Technically you could get a "aviation management" position from some company and maybe they sponsor - but good luck on that front. A) because they generally require specialized skill or degree to pursue and generally they dont look fondly on you haveing a computer science degree, no specialized skill and wating a work permit. Now if you had a position for 5 years in management working for Brussels airport - then sure -that might translate and a company here might sponsor you for something specialized in that for an h1b visa - but I dont think that is the case.

But again - no company will sponsor you for flight instruction. Just wont happen and it wont get approved. A) they are all independent contractors b) they wont pay 60+K and C) the required competition clause will be easily met and it'll be axed.

There is no point meeting with an immigration lawyer unless you want them to tell you the same thing. Totally up to you. You can retain and hear what you want to hear.
 
As of right now, your most viable path is to work in a non-aviation field on H1B and then transition to aviation once you have your green card. Having said that, this could (I wouldn't hold my breath though) change in 5 years though. The time you work in your H1B job, you can use to build hours. Buy a Cessna 150 (owned through a trust, as you can't "own" a plane yourself without permanent status in the U.S.) and get your hours while discovering the U.S. and Canada. I don't know what you're currently doing in Belgium but if you work in a managerial position for a company that has a U.S. presence or seeks to expand into the U.S., you could also get the L1 which is also dual intend. For the company sponsoring you, they will certainly seek the help of an immigration lawyer. For you, it depends. All of these things you can easily figure out by using Google and the DHS website. However, if you don't want to do that research, a lawyer will gladly charge you $XXX per hour to do it for you. The *LEGAL* immigration policy in the U.S. (and Canada) is actually very simple and straightforward. It doesn't take rocket science to figure it out. I am also from Europe. I went from being a visitor in Canada to now being a citizen in Canada. In the U.S. I held several visas throughout my life. Did it all without ever needing the help of an immigration lawyer or consultant. However, it did take time and some research work.
 
You could also look into the green card lottery... it's a long shot, but would provide an end run around the various visa restrictions.
 
If you can get yourself enrolled with an accredited college with an aviation program and can demonstrate you're financially capable you can get a student F1 visa which will be much easier.. may help with getting hired afterwards too.
 
You could also look into the green card lottery... it's a long shot, but would provide an end run around the various visa restrictions.
Oddly enough I know two people who were successful in this, both from Germany, so it must be a significant number of slots.

My wife and I both immigrated to the US, from different countries at different times. She came in after we we married (we met in Europe when I was on vacation), long after I was already a US citizen, giving me the experience of the process for two different situations and points of view. What I’ve found when explaining the immigration system to US-born citizens is that the complexity and time required is a shock to them, completely beyond their previous imagination and understanding. Unless the original poster is well funded, totally committed, and focused on US immigration as his main life goal for years, getting the green card and job won’t happen.

Other than the lottery long shot route, the easiest route in terms of the bureaucracy would be to get any kind of student or business visa to be in the US temporarily, about which others who have already posted likely know more than me. Then meet and marry a US citizen. Sounds contrived but if you’re young and want to get married someday anyway, it has a way of happening. If you’re already in the country on another visa, you don’t have to stay out the country for a couple of years post-marrriage while the green card application is processed. It’s just a change of status.
 
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What I’ve found when explaining the immigration system to US-born citizens is that the complexity and time required is a shock to them, completely beyond their previous imagination and understanding.

Agree with most of your statement except for this one. The system isn't overly complicated but lawyers love to paint a picture of how complicated it is for obvious reasons. I'm not saying it's easy but anyone with attention to detail can navigate it without professional help. It's a lot of crossing T's and dotting I's and you can't miss any of that, but again, it's not rocket science. I work with a lot of international entrepreneurs who are looking to immigrate to North America, many of whom choose Canada and it's the same up here - immigration lawyers/consultants paint such a difficult, complicated picture about the process and charge these people hundreds of thousands of dollars to help them. When I went through the process myself eight years ago, I did it all on my own, in one of the what is considered the most "complicated" category to obtain Canadian permanent residency (PR). Had no issues and became PR within less than a year. Prior to that I obtained a work permit so I can wait for PR in Canada. Before I started the process, I reached out to a few lawyers asking for quotes, they all came back with price tags in the low six digit region. The same applies to the U.S. I thought about (and may still do it) getting an E-2. Lawyers quoted me $6k+ to handle the process for me. I looked at the process and said, "no, I'm good - I'll do it myself". I already did the J, B, and F (twice) for myself and the E doesn't look much more complicated than the ones I did in the past and certainly less complicated than the PR process I went through in Canada. I have no intentions to become a green card holder in the U.S. at least not at the moment (things can always change) but I obviously looked into the various options and none seem overly complicated or more complicated than the PR process I went through in Canada. I also know a few people who immigrated to the U.S. in various categories, some with lawyers, some without so it can't be all that complicated.

Unless the original poster is well funded, totally committed, and focused on US immigration as his main life goal for years, getting the green card and job won’t happen.

That, I agree with. You need $$$, commitment and focus. Immigration doesn't have to be your "life goal" but it has to be high on the list. I didn't immigrate because it was a life goal, although it was a goal of mine to that eventually. However, when I did immigrate, I did it because the startup I co-founded was more suitable for the North American market, plus investors, partners, customers, etc. were all in the U.S. and Canada so I used immigration as means to relocated my business and grow it. My primary focus was to make the business work. Immigration was a nice byproduct of that.
 
Oddly enough I know two people who were successful in this, both from Germany, so it must be a significant number of slots.
It depends on where the immigrant is coming from; some regions have more slots available than others. The odds are better when coming from a country that doesn't see much immigration to the US. My son in law (from New Zealand) got a lottery green card after 10 summers working in a US camp on J1 visas (which is where he met my daughter, who was the camp nurse). He could have married her earlier than they had planned and gotten a green card that way, but he didn't want anybody to insinuate that was why they married.
 
If you can get yourself enrolled with an accredited college with an aviation program and can demonstrate you're financially capable you can get a student F1 visa which will be much easier.. may help with getting hired afterwards too.

he would go from F1 to OPT but then be dead in the water with his certs post OPT.
 
Agree with most of your statement except for this one. The system isn't overly complicated but lawyers love to paint a picture of how complicated it is for obvious reasons. I'm not saying it's easy but anyone with attention to detail can navigate it without professional help. It's a lot of crossing T's and dotting I's and you can't miss any of that, but again, it's not rocket science.

It probably depends on the particular circumstance. My own Green Card saga was not so bad, particularly as it was a long time ago when things were simpler.

My wife's Green Card application started with our marriage in the US, and her immediate return to Germany to wait. She could have stayed if we'd wanted to break the law, lie about her reason for entering the US under the Visa Waiver Program and then after marriage lie again in applying for a waiver to stay while applying for a green card. Many newlyweds do it, we didn't. In our case, doing it the right way, my USCIS application followed (a 9 month initial process with a couple of unnecessary questions back from USCIS), then overseas consular processing (another 8 months to approval) which included gathering German police 'good conduct' reports (twice, the first one expired after 6 months), overseas medical exam by State Department appointed doctor (requiring travel), mandatory immunizations, a face-to-face interview at the US Consulate 400 km from her home (I flew there to help), lots of Fedex'd documents flying across the world, and finally a Visa arriving in her previously surrendered passport with the associated 'do not open' secret brown envelope from the US consulate attached. Then arrogance, rudeness and hours in line to complete the USCIS entry process at LAX (welcome to America :) ). I flew to Germany this time too, and returned with her but could not accompany her through the immigrant entry process. Once outside of the airport terminal and in the car she threw up from the stress.

Throughout this process applicants and their families browse web forums where many people compare notes based on their application dates, US processing center location (assigned by address), and country of origin to track when their number might come up. The line moves slowly, different centers move faster than others and sometimes unpredictable changes in policy make the line stop for a while. It is not exactly simple, nor a friendly walk in the park, even with marriage providing the basis for a residence application that USCIS can't turn down without good reason.

Then after a couple of years of US residence the next phase is another inch-thick 3-ring bound I-751 application to remove marriage based conditional status, before the first (and not permanent) CR-1 green card expires. In our case this was complete with required letters of support from people who by then knew both of us as a couple in the US, an album of photos of us together in different places and occasions, lots of bills and the title of our new house with both our names, and so on. I can't remember how long the I-751 took, something like a year but eventually an IR-1 green card showed up. The process viewed as a whole is archaic in its complexity, its reliance on paper and the number of organizations that pass the application between uncoordinated phases that could be done in parallel. A bureaucrat's dream, the rigor of which has no alignment whatsoever to the non-process followed by thousands of people who the same Federal Government allows to enter without documents. The combined government fees are something like $2K, not the end of the world but measurable.

Perhaps more relevant to the original poster's interest, a Romanian guy who now works for me found his way into the US through a Canadian PhD scholarship that led fairly easily to Canadian citizenship, which I understand provided him different options for US immigration. Canada was a relatively simple stepping stone. He was eventually able to get into the US on a non-permanent visa to take an ostensibly temporary job in 2004. After a series of visa extensions he worked that into a Green Card with his then-US employer who by that time wanted to keep him, and subsequently was able to apply for US citizenship which he received in 2019. From start to finish his was about a 25 year program starting in Romania and terminating in US citizenship. We hired him as a US citizen, into a $200K job that requires it. That's another way to do it.

 
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he would go from F1 to OPT but then be dead in the water with his certs post OPT.

This is true, but there are many other airlines around the world he could work for. From what I gather, getting a license here is cheaper than anywhere else..

Here is a program to look at

 
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