Video of C-152 Stall/Spin @ Quebec City (CYQB)

K

kkoran

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Messages
1,577
Location
Renton, WA
Display Name
Display name:
Kent

Pilot reportedly suffered non-life threatening injuries.
 
Ouch. That's a good ad for shoulder harnesses.

Must..avoid...trees...oh...sh#&.
 
Last edited:
i Think I can, I think I can, I think… I can’t!
 
The "short" runway there is 5,700 feet. Took off with the flaps down? :dunno:
 
Daleandee said:
Amazing that the camera man didn't throw down the camera and go to help the guy that just crashed his plane ...
Click to expand...
On foot? What is that going to do? The tower controller can call emergency services.
 
Gust lock left in place? I don't see any elevator movement, even when it's crashing and the entire fuselage is crumbling.

Watch just the elevator during the entire video.
 
Agree, gust lock, not only no rudder movement, but no aileron movement as well.
 
It’s an unnatural feeling to push that stick forward in that situation. Glad the pilot is ok.
 
How is the elevator positioned with the 152 control lock installed? (Been too many years for me, I can't recall).
Or, could have been a "jury-rigged" gust lock, such as a nail through the yoke shaft hole, but that would still leave the controls in the "standard" lock position.
 
dmspilot said:
On foot? What is that going to do? The tower controller can call emergency services.
Click to expand...

I dunno ... just seems that it's what I would have thought to do. If I get there first at least if he's conscience he knows someone is there to help and gives him hope.
 
Stewartb said:
What would I do? Anything I could. From that perspective I’d beat emergency services there by minutes.
Click to expand...

The problem is you don’t know exactly where the photographer was or his knowledge of the airfield. Was he on the ramp with no fence in the way, was he a pilot, who knows? It’s a towered field with commercial airline service so I think that arm chair quarterbacking that this guy should have dropped everything and ran out there to do what is a stretch IMO. However I think he should have stopped filming and called 911 (or whatever the Canadian equivalent is).
 
Stewartb said:
What would I do? Anything I could. From that perspective I’d beat emergency services there by minutes.
Click to expand...

Good ol' armchair quarterbacking.

Looks like the plane went down on the other side a 6/24 which is a 9,000' runway. The airport has 7 gates with jetways and it appears to have a fair amount of airline traffic traffic. So I'm guessing they have on-field emergency services. The video looks like it was taken on the commercial ramp area since there's a jetway in the upper right corner. So the video may have been recorded by a ramp worker.

But he should have run the quarter of mile across the main runway and beat EMS there by "minutes". Could be the ramp workers have all been told never to move outside of the ramp area without an okay from the tower. Maybe he was out there to marshall the 787 to the gate that just landed?

And let's say he did make that run to the site. Did the guy have medical training? Did he have any tools with him that could have been useful? Because what every rescue worker likes is some clueless jackwagon at the scene telling everyone they got there first.

Maybe he had a radio and heard the tower stop all operations so that emergency services could get to the site?

But no he should absolutely just started running across the airfield.
 
Armchair quarterbacking works both ways, but I’m sure your take is far superior. You should start a blog.
 
Got the original video from Twitter (or is it "X" now?) here:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1686409272983203840

Below are some frame captures, enlarged, cropped, contrast-adjusted and sharpened. Unfortunately, the white portions of the wings seem to be over-exposed, and there's not much detail there. I've also got a 4x enlarged, cropped video but cannot figure out how to attach it here...anyone?

What I think I see is that until quite late in the stall, up-elevator is being applied, and as the a/c yaws further to the left, neutral, then down-elevator. In the last one, just before impact it appears left rudder is still being applied.

Anyway, that's what I was able to extract from the video. Hope this helps.

As a/c begins to depart to the left, up-elevator is clearly being applied:

F1.jpg

Just after this, looks like neutral or slightly down-elevator:

F2.jpg

And just after that, down-elevator:

F3.jpg

and just before impact, it appears left rudder is still applied:

F4.jpg
 
To me, the image quality is not high enough to draw any conclusion about control surfaces other than that the flaps are not retracted. I don't see left rudder applied either, that's called p-factor/torque.
 
dmspilot said:
To me, the image quality is not high enough to draw any conclusion about control surfaces other than that the flaps are not retracted. I don't see left rudder applied either, that's called p-factor/torque.
Click to expand...
Okay, then let's agree to disagree. To me there's clear change in elevator position between first and subsequent images.

In the last image, the rudder is in silhouette and it seems pretty clear to me that it's left rudder being applied there.
 
Turbo-Arrow-Driver said:
Okay, then let's agree to disagree. To me there's clear change in elevator position between first and subsequent images.

In the last image, the rudder is in silhouette and it seems pretty clear to me that it's left rudder being applied there.
Click to expand...

The compression artifacts/interpolated pixels are larger than the control surfaces. I suppose you also think the right wingtip suddenly bent backward in flight as well?

Screenshot 2023-08-05 at 12.35.18 PM.png
 
dmspilot said:
The compression artifacts/interpolated pixels are larger than the control surfaces. I suppose you also think the right wingtip suddenly bent backward in flight as well?

View attachment 119630
Click to expand...
That's the likely culprit. Too much image compression applied to the airframe during preflight.
 
dmspilot said:
The compression artifacts/interpolated pixels are larger than the control surfaces. I suppose you also think the right wingtip suddenly bent backward in flight as well?

View attachment 119630
Click to expand...
You know what? Never mind. I try to do something helpful and be respectful to others. All I get are snarky replies. Happens way too often on this web site. I've got better things to do.
 
It’s going soooo slow, yikes.

Looks like the loss of directional control first, followed by a stall and then spin into the ground.
 
Turbo-Arrow-Driver said:
You know what? Never mind. I try to do something helpful and be respectful to others. All I get are snarky replies. Happens way too often on this web site. I've got better things to do.
Click to expand...
Welcome to POA

I saw elsewhere someone speculate this could have been a crosswind landing turned into go around. Forget the flaps and perhaps the left rudder do to crosswind? Yes, I see the left rudder deflection too. Whether it was deflected left before the crash, pixelated deception, one of those things that happens when someone gets crossed up...we'll probably never know.
 
I'm not saying that person should or shouldn't have done anything (I know I would have). I'm saying the person literally didn't even seem to move or react in any way whatsoever. focus was solely on getting the video. I would think a 'typical' normal person reaction would be something along the lines of "HOLY SHT", or "OMG I HOPE THAT PERSON IS OK", or "HEY, SOMEONE CALL 911".....I'm not even sure this person blinked. might as well have been videoing bees pollinating flowers. no reaction at all.
 
In my 172, when the factory gust lock is installed, the elevator is set a bit down. This helps prevent wind from lifting the tail if you're tied down outside with a tailwind. And I don't think it will take off with the gust lock installed (of course I haven't tried that).
 
Turbo-Arrow-Driver said:
You know what? Never mind. I try to do something helpful and be respectful to others. All I get are snarky replies. Happens way too often on this web site. I've got better things to do.
Click to expand...
“Strong here is the snark in some.” Yoda. I agree with your thesis. I saw the rudder deflection as well. Appreciate your efforts.

Don’t bail. The snark-holes win then!
 
No left rudder is necessary to explain the events in the video. Some of you have not had enough stall or spin-awareness training.
 
Turbo-Arrow-Driver said:
Okay, then let's agree to disagree. To me there's clear change in elevator position between first and subsequent images.

In the last image, the rudder is in silhouette and it seems pretty clear to me that it's left rudder being applied there.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't see elevator movement, no matter how hard I try, and if down elevator was being employed as he suddenly began nose diving close to the ground, that might be the first time in history that was done. It's not instinctual to try to dive when the plane is already diving and you're already rushing toward the ground.

The gust lock only locks the ailerons and the elevator, but not the rudder pedals. I suspect in the panic that occurs with loss of control the pilot exerted control in the only option that was left, i.e. rudder, and maybe even thinking it was the brake pedal.
 
eman1200 said:
might as well have been videoing bees pollinating flowers. no reaction at all.
Click to expand...
Wait... You wouldn't have had reaction to bees pollinating flowers? Id say youre making progress.

It honestly sounds like at the very end they whisper "Manuel"...like they're trying to wake their buddy up from a nap.
 
dmspilot said:
No left rudder is necessary to explain the events in the video. Some of you have not had enough stall or spin-awareness training.
Click to expand...
Aware no left rudder needs to be applied. It just looks like it might have been. Most have seen the student pilot fail a landing and have the airplane turn into a three wheeled off-road machine while cranking on the yolk. So it wouldn't surprise me if in an imminent stall/crash scenario that a low time pilot gets crossed up.

Granted at that stage at that altitude, rudder didn't matter.
 
What degree of flaps is being applied here?
 
Yeah but left wing drop in a stall with the rudder still pushed left is very poor incipient spin recovery technique, or stall recovery technique for that matter.
 
Amazing to me is the folks that think the camera person was a fit male capable of running that distance, putting out a fire, pulling the pilot out as well as being a well trained paramedic carrying the trauma bag at all times.

The camera person might have been a 75 year old female incapable of doing anything except taking pictures.

Since I wasn't there this is all pure speculation.

As for myself, I am not capable of running that distance due to pain in the ankles. However, I could have briskly walked the distance, but first thing I would have done is call 911.

If this had been a scheduled passenger flight carrying a bunch of folks then the video would be very helpful in the crash investigation.
 
"The camera person might have been a 75-year-old female incapable of doing anything except taking pictures.", you just previously wrote Billy Zeldman.

Ouch, watch that ageism and sexism Billy , signed Ralph age 81 years, CFII Gold Seal, MEI, AGI, IGI, FAA Master Pilot Award. Take care of yourself and my hope that you can one day join our aged pilot ranks.
 
As many have mentioned flaps are too much(according to what I see in the POH flaps 0 to 10 and this plane seemed to have a lot more than that.

Cannot comment on use of ailerons, or elevator as cannot tell from my reviews of the video(both you-tube, and twitter) but from the video his attitude seems really steep to me. Do not know whether this is a regular take off, go around or a touch and go(or stop). The last data on flight aware on this plane is from two days prior which would suggest to me it was a regular takeoff. I find it hard to believe the pilot forgot to remove the yoke gust lock, though I guess it is possible, given that there would be absolutely no movement in the yoke with it in. I personally would find that hard to ignore even if I had a major brain fart and forgot to do my preflight. I was taught the best way to avoid a spin is to avoid a stall, and again to my observation of the attitude. The video shows the plane just after it leaves the ground and it is in what appears to me a high attitude almost immediately. It passes right though ground effect in a high attitude and slow speed. Whenever I take off I always level my plane in ground effect until I reach my Vy or Vx speed depending on my intentions and then start my ascent slowly always maintaining at the very least Vy or Vx. Once this plane started to stall, the nose needed to be pushed down, from what I see this did not happen and the nose only came down when lift was gone, the plane was uncoordinated and the rest is history. From the time the plane started to stalled until the spin occurred was maybe 3 seconds. The only hope to have avoided this outcome would have to pushed the nose down the second the stall warning sounded which I would think started almost immediately after the plane left the ground.
 
PaulS said:
Yeah but left wing drop in a stall with the rudder still pushed left is very poor incipient spin recovery technique, or stall recovery technique for that matter.
Click to expand...
If this supposed to be a joke?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top