Victor airways best for VFR?

Hengelo

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
748
Display Name

Display name:
Hengelo
New pilot/IFR student here…

I am planning a medium sized (couple of hours each way) VFR XC trip and it occurs to me that by sticking to Victor airways I can guarantee radar coverage from centers for flight following, even if the route takes me slightly astray from “direct” to my ultimate destination.

Please check my thinking?
 
Sure works for me.

Gives you experience tracking a NavAid vs. flying a magenta-line.

You'll want to be sure you're at an altitude that assures radar coverage. Not sure what part of the world you're in, but in mountainous areas there are places where you'll need to be up a little.

Check the MEA, and the VOR-changeover point.
 
So while you're at it - if you're flying the airways (which also keeps you out of Restricted Airspace or other nasty things that may or may not be present where you are), maybe setup for a VFR practice approach to your destination. Not sure your level of readiness - so this might be premature or misplaced advice.
 
New pilot/IFR student here…

I am planning a medium sized (couple of hours each way) VFR XC trip and it occurs to me that by sticking to Victor airways I can guarantee radar coverage from centers for flight following, even if the route takes me slightly astray from “direct” to my ultimate destination.

Please check my thinking?

Airways have nothing to do with promising radar coverage, quite the opposite in fact, as they are meant to allow for non-radar ATC separation.
 
I respectfully go the other way. I would hug the interstate highway system as much as possible.
 
You could drag out a sectional, plot the course and fly direct. Following Victor Airways is okay also. Your location in the country and how high you want to go will likely dictate how much you can count on radar coverage.
 
My first long cross country after getting the PPL, I decided to save distance, skip the Victor airways, and drew a straight line.
I then calculated my first fuel distance, and found no airport near the route.
The most suitable airport was right on the victor airway, and when I drew the straight line, the V route was nearly as short as direct.
Next leg, the same thing.

It dawned on me very quickly that the airways connected airports, and were usually a trivial amount longer.
All my long trips became Victor airways, and I flew them to IFR standards, which proved to be a big boost when I trained for that certificate.
The scallop mentioned was a reference to the VOR airways not being perfectly straight, but slight curves, and with an S turn over the station. The legs are depicted as straight on the charts, as error varies with altitude.

Sectionals and pilotage are best combined with Victor airways by noting major landmarks every 5 to 10 minutes, circle them, and add the time abeam. Then, in an emergency, you have a record of where you are/were in the immediate past. Simply flying the VOR airway, or GPS is dangerous, as in an emergency when the electronic magic stops working, finding yourself can be a distracting chore.

My early cross countries were about 6 hours each way, equal to two days driving.

Enjoy the convenience of traveling at twice the speed limit, and where radar is good news.

The Geezer's flying was 80% cross country. And 75% Victor airways, even after getting an IFR LORAN.
 
The scallop mentioned was a reference to the VOR airways not being perfectly straight, but slight curves, and with an S turn over the station. The legs are depicted as straight on the charts, as error varies with altitude.
It's been many years since I followed an airway or even flown a plane with a working VOR receiver, but I've never heard of that. Are you not flying a single radial all the way?
 
I always heard “scallop” as the needle waving back and forth due to signal disturbance....
That's the way I learned it. Reflections of the signal from nearby mountains is an example of such a disturbance.
 
Airways have nothing to do with promising radar coverage, quite the opposite in fact, as they are meant to allow for non-radar ATC separation.
That is true.

However, on an airway the OP will have radar coverage and radio contact as long as they fly at MEA (or MRA if it's higher), so they're still thinking along the right lines, even if the question needs a little refinement.

To the OP: make sure you check the NOTAMs for navaid, Center radio, or radar outages along your route.
 
That's the way I learned it. Reflections of the signal from nearby mountains is an example of such a disturbance.
True, and you can get it over perfectly flat terrain as well, as you're further from the VOR station and the signal is less precise.

If you pair your autopilot with a VOR enroute 30 or 40 miles from the station, you'll find afterwards that your GPS flight path is gentle scallop (or slalom) pattern weaving left and right, instead of a straight line..
 
One minor point, while I believe V airways avoid restricted areas, they don't avoid MOA's. It's worth not just sailing through them as it can mess up the operations if they are hot. You are allowed to, just easier to avoid them or call the controlling agency to see if they are hot or cold. On flight following, you'll get that info easily.
 
The radials are depicted as straight, but in fact are very long slim hyperbolas, with he apex at the station. That apex is with the inbound curve in the same direction from all radials, resulting in the famous rolls crossing if on auto pilot. Airline pilots regularly transferred from VOR to DG and back for the transit. Hand flying, unless you happened to be looking at the needle as you crossed, the event went un noticed. The needle pegged from one side to the other, then returned to center, in a second or two.

Unfortunately, for the new pilot who is unaware of this characteristic, 30 miles out from the station, he may find he has a centered needle, but the features of the terrain will be a mile or two off to the side, and think that they or their radios are at fault.
 
First of all - kudos on getting out there and flying! My first big XC a week after my ticket was KDPA - KMCI (a baby bravo, but yeah, still a bravo). Ticket to learn as they say! Go out there and use the ticket!

I’d say it all depends on equipment and part of the world. I’d say anything east of the Rockies you’ll probably always mostly have radar coverage. I don’t have experience west of there. For the most part I just direct-enter-enter and it works just fine (Garmin 430-G1000). It gets empty between Omaha and Denver, but comms and nav still work well. If you follow VORs, remember to stay high enough (for reception) and aim to have one every 80nm. Look at IFR low charts for an idea of reception altitudes.

Have fun!
 
One minor point, while I believe V airways avoid restricted areas, they don't avoid MOA's. It's worth not just sailing through them as it can mess up the operations if they are hot. You are allowed to, just easier to avoid them or call the controlling agency to see if they are hot or cold. On flight following, you'll get that info easily.
Some MOAs have a high enough floor to pass under easily.
 
Some MOAs have a high enough floor to pass under easily.
Absolutely, an earlier poster mentioned restricted areas, I just wanted the OP to understand that a Victor was not an excuse not to review the sectional.
 
If there is a way to find victor airways without a sectional it’s probably because they’ve been tattooed on… a level of dedication I’m not ready for ;)
 
If there is a way to find victor airways without a sectional it’s probably because they’ve been tattooed on… a level of dedication I’m not ready for ;)

the airways are plainly marked on the Low charts. There you’ll find changeover points, MEA information and more that’s lacking on the Sectional depictions.
 
That is true.

However, on an airway the OP will have radar coverage and radio contact as long as they fly at MEA (or MRA if it's higher), so they're still thinking along the right lines, even if the question needs a little refinement.

To the OP: make sure you check the NOTAMs for navaid, Center radio, or radar outages along your route.
Radar coverage is not a requirement for the establishment of an Airway, or it’s MEA or MOCA. Communication is, but it does not have to be direct Radio communication with ATC. Relay via Flight Service Service is a way to meet the requirement. CPDLC, controller pilot data link communications, is another way. Communication is a requirement for the establishment of Controlled Airspace. Airways are Controlled Airspace. But Radar is not a requirement.
 
I would highly recommend about 1-2 hours of "how to fly cross-country using IFR tools" with your CFI. Back in '86, when I had a fresh PP ticket, my instructor knew I was planing a VFR trip from FL to WI. He sit me down and went over the low-altitude IFR charts and how I could use them based on the equipment in my aircraft. We also did a "x/c" practice flight using those tools. This completely changed how I planed and flew x/c flights.
 
I would highly recommend about 1-2 hours of "how to fly cross-country using IFR tools" with your CFI. Back in '86, when I had a fresh PP ticket, my instructor knew I was planing a VFR trip from FL to WI. He sit me down and went over the low-altitude IFR charts and how I could use them based on the equipment in my aircraft. We also did a "x/c" practice flight using those tools. This completely changed how I planed and flew x/c flights.
If your instructor “completely changed” how you planned and flew cross country flights as a freshly minted private pilot, he didn’t teach you well to start with.
 
If your instructor “completely changed” how you planned and flew cross country flights as a freshly minted private pilot, he didn’t teach you well to start with.

You don’t think there’s any difference between entry level private pilot flight planning and IR flight planning?
 
However, on an airway the OP will have radar coverage and radio contact as long as they fly at MEA (or MRA if it's higher), so they're still thinking along the right lines, even if the question needs a little refinement.
Not so.
 
If your instructor “completely changed” how you planned and flew cross country flights as a freshly minted private pilot, he didn’t teach you well to start with.
You know that is a complete BS statement you just made. Don't you????

Up until the private check ride (which in this case was just 1 week before), the concentration was VFR charts and ground reference. The 'new way' was to using IFR Low Altitude charts and now referencing the VOR and DME and not looking at the ground. (1985, no GPS.)
As I remember it, his statement was (more or less) "Now that you passed the test, let me show you the REAL way to plan and fly a cross-country."

I think the OP needs the same treatment. (Unless, of course, you are his CFI.)
 
You know that is a complete BS statement you just made. Don't you????

Up until the private check ride (which in this case was just 1 week before), the concentration was VFR charts and ground reference. The 'new way' was to using IFR Low Altitude charts and now referencing the VOR and DME and not looking at the ground. (1985, no GPS.)
As I remember it, his statement was (more or less) "Now that you passed the test, let me show you the REAL way to plan and fly a cross-country."
If your instructor didn’t teach you how to use VOR (and DME if it was installed), not only did he not teach you well, he didn’t teach you per the PTS.
 
You don’t think there’s any difference between entry level private pilot flight planning and IR flight planning?
He didn’t say he was teaching him instrument cross country. He said he was teaching him to use the stuff he should have learned as a student pilot.
 
He didn’t say he was teaching him instrument cross country. He said he was teaching him to use the stuff he should have learned as a student pilot.

Quoting his quote:

“ "how to fly cross-country using IFR tools" “
 
Quoting his quote:

“ "how to fly cross-country using IFR tools" “
Also quoting his quote:
“and now referencing the VOR and DME”

Apparently his instructor didn’t think these were suitable for vfr.
 
Also quoting his quote:
“and now referencing the VOR and DME”

You’re right. There’s clearly no difference in IR and VFR flying. Not even sure why they have them separated out.
 
You’re right. There’s clearly no difference in IR and VFR flying. Not even sure why they have them separated out.
I never said there wasn’t a difference. In fact, I have often lamented the fact that the FAA wants to train VFR private pilots to believe they have the capability of flying just like instrument pilots with three hours of hood time.

but aside from finding frequencies for flight following, what can you teach in “1-2 hours” that a Private a pilot shouldn’t already know?
 
…but aside from finding frequencies for flight following, what can you teach in “1-2 hours” that a Private a pilot shouldn’t already know?

How to load an airway into a 650, for one.
 
How to load an airway into a 650, for one.
Why is that not something a student pilot should learn?

Seems like you’d have to be able to load it before you can “Intercept and track a given course, radial, or bearing, as appropriate.”
 
Last edited:
Back
Top