VFR on top with PPL

jmarine225

jmarine225

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jmarine225
Curious on some opinions here. I have a single engine Cherokee and a few situations arose where we departed VFR and upon turning in course we encountered an overcast cloud layer below us for a good part of the flight until our destination. Curious what other pilots think about it as we had the situation occur today and I wasn’t comfortable with it as our destination was 100 miles away and all airports enroute were covered in.
 
Plenty of other people will quickly point out the difference between on top and over the top. I’d bet money on who it’ll be.

To answer ur question, it’s either no big deal or a big deal, depending on you, your plane, your planning, and the size of the contents of your banana hammock. I’ve done it plenty, I was comfy with it. Some people aren’t. Which one r u?
 
As a Private, non-instrument-rayed Pilot, my meteorological skills weren’t up to guaranteeing that My destination would be as forecast.

On the other hand, spinning down through the clouds in the event of an engine failure wouldn’t have bothered me.

but due to the lack of meteorological skills, if the clouds started filling in below me, I got down below the clouds.
 
Well I completed my instrument training but Didn’t take my Checkride yet. I think I’d feel a bit more comfortable if I had and IFR gps in the plane but it’s only vfr. The plane is ifr certified but only has ils/vor. If I had to in an emrgency, I can pull off an ils landing or even attempt the rnav with ForeFlight if it was last ditch effort.
 
eman1200 said:
Plenty of other people will quickly point out the difference between on top and over the top. I’d bet money on who it’ll be.

To answer ur question, it’s either no big deal or a big deal, depending on you, your plane, your planning, and the size of the contents of your banana hammock. I’ve done it plenty, I was comfy with it. Some people aren’t. Which one r u?
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I’ve done it but depends on my course. Over an entirely wooded area here in the northeast with nowhere to put it down isnt the most appeasing. Flying over fields and such knowing I have a chance after breaking through is a it more encouraging.
 
eman1200 said:
Plenty of other people will quickly point out the difference between on top and over the top. I’d bet money on who it’ll be.
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Strange, no one has pointed that out yet. I guess it has only been an hour, but it does seem like POAers are slacking.
 
eman1200 said:
Plenty of other people will quickly point out the difference between on top and over the top. I’d bet money on who it’ll be.

To answer ur question, it’s either no big deal or a big deal, depending on you, your plane, your planning, and the size of the contents of your banana hammock. I’ve done it plenty, I was comfy with it. Some people aren’t. Which one r u?
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Hahahaha. Yeah I know the difference but figured people would just understand the point I was making. Still plenty of time left though.
 
Depends on your comfort level and your skills. The weather doesn’t always do what’s forecast, always have an out.
 
jason gula said:
Curious what other pilots think about it as we had the situation occur today and I wasn’t comfortable with it as our destination was 100 miles away and all airports enroute were covered in.
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I'm just a lowly Sport Pilot but I try to keep up as much as I can. If you care for an opinion from the peanut gallery ... that sounds to me like a good (or bad) way to get into the news so everyone here can talk about you. I've flown above a few scattered puffies but I ain't going over the top of solid or even broken.
 
Do it all the time here in SoCal. But there are times we just have a layer sitting at 2k’ just over the coast that’s 100-500’ thick and 1 mile the other direction are zero clouds.
 
I've done it, but I wouldn't have tried it without ADSB-IN. I could see that my there were several airports reporting clear skies near my destination, and get updated METAR's to make sure the hole wasn't closing. Also, the times I've done it the layer has only been a couple hundred feet thick, with VFR ceilings below, and carrying enough fuel that I could've turned around and gone back if I had to. The terrain around here is very friendly, too.

This is from our Florida trip in January. We flew over for about an hour & a half, then descended through the hole that I was watching on ADSB, and continued underneath for the last 45 minutes. It was a heck of a lot more pleasant on top. One of the driving forces to get my IFR is to be able to stay on top where it's nice instead of bouncing around underneath. This particular layer was only about 150-200' thick.
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Did it accidentally at night once. Didn't like that much. Have done it during the day when clouds were broken. No discomfort there. I probably wouldn't feel comfortable with a solid undercast unless I knew for sure where it started and stopped.
 
936019AF-F5EE-4D50-BB67-04102C1A3593.jpeg I do it a lot but with IFR rating and equipped. When you listen to 300 ft ceilings on AWOSs below, the engine does tend to exhibit unusual noises. Nighttime over the mountains I’ve heard the same noises.:D
 
I will only do it if I'm certain that my destination or an alternate is at least broken and the ceiling underneath throughout the flight is high enough to recover from a spinning descent through the cloud deck (BTDT). Or rather, I might continue a flight under those conditions, I wouldn't start one.
 
Got the skills to get back down when the weather doesn't match the forecast? Snot a big deal.
Ain't got the skills? If it looks "safer to go over the top" then it's not a good day to fly.
 
There will come a point in your early flying career that you will realize that flying over an undercast is not always a good idea. "Encountering" an undercast should, in this weather planning day and age be more often "expecting." Flying over an expected undercast entails significant additional risk for a non-instrument rated pilot. With an instrument rating, you just file and plan on flying over a low cloud deck in the smooth and sunny air above. It can be too easy to get trapped on top VFR with no outs without an intrument rating. And then your choices are not ideal.
 
That little voice you heard was you telling yourself to not do it again...
 
How about flying along VFR and seeing a layer ahead at say 3,000 feet. Looks to be about 1000 feet thick and miles wide. Still have 100 miles to go. Reporting scattered along the route ahead. Do you go above it or below it?
 
As long as my ADDS weather has green dots below me and the land is relatively flat, meaning I could get through with plenty of ground clearance, I would go on top.
 
I learned the hard way a sea of green dots doesn’t preclude a hard overcast at 3000 that you can’t get back down through. Also a forecast for scattered changes to overcast with a couple of degrees change. The weight of my knowledge bucket increased by a couple hours of fuel that day.
 
Long before there was such a thing as ADS-B I spent three long days in Lake City Florida on a PA-28 delivery trip to Seattle waiting for fog to go away. The whole gulf coast was blanketed in white extending up into the coastal states. While my natural chicken tendency played a large part in my decision to stay on the ground, the insurance company said "No IFR, no over the top" for delivery/ferry trips.
 
jkgoblue said:
How about flying along VFR and seeing a layer ahead at say 3,000 feet. Looks to be about 1000 feet thick and miles wide. Still have 100 miles to go. Reporting scattered along the route ahead. Do you go above it or below it?
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As long as you are confident that there is no weather front moving through, and the forecast for the destination allows you to descend under VFR, I think it should be ok to fly above. Flying above will generally be smoother. You should continuously be monitoring weather reports along the way to make sure there are no surprises. Also, flight following from ATC will be useful in case you get stuck and need assistance.
 
jkgoblue said:
How about flying along VFR and seeing a layer ahead at say 3,000 feet. Looks to be about 1000 feet thick and miles wide. Still have 100 miles to go. Reporting scattered along the route ahead. Do you go above it or below it?
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Depends on what the weather forecast said. Reporting scattered ahead could become BKN or OVC by the time you get there, depending on the cause of the weather. Current weather has a habit of changing. It's not necessarily so simple as looking at current conditions.
 
cgrab said:
As long as my ADDS weather has green dots below me and the land is relatively flat, meaning I could get through with plenty of ground clearance, I would go on top.
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Are you planning on descending through an undercast iMC without a clearance?
 
chemgeek said:
Depends on what the weather forecast said. Reporting scattered ahead could become BKN or OVC by the time you get there, depending on the cause of the weather. Current weather has a habit of changing. It's not necessarily so simple as looking at current conditions.
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And reported ceilings can be wrong in real time, as I was so rudely reminded the time I landed at North Bend, Oregon (OTH).
 
sarangan said:
Also, flight following from ATC will be useful in case you get stuck and need assistance.
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seems to me that if you’re getting flight following in case you can’t legally descend to your destination, you’re doing something wrong.
 
Arnold said:
POA provides an opportunity for all posters, there are pilots. There are no "lowly Sport Pilot" only pilots.
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I really appreciate what you are saying here. I was referring more to the fact that some pilots here are trained to a higher level and perhaps understand more of the implications of doing this much more than I do. I have no IFR rating nor do I desire one as I'm quite satisfied with where I am at this point.

But without an IFR rating and currency I don't think it wise for anyone to put themselves into a situation that could turn deadly. However some have pointed out that ADSB has been a help to them with in cockpit weather. Even at that I still think one might get themselves into a position where the best laid plans don't end up that way:

 
Daleandee said:
I'm just a lowly Sport Pilot but I try to keep up as much as I can. If you care for an opinion from the peanut gallery ... that sounds to me like a good (or bad) way to get into the news so everyone here can talk about you. I've flown above a few scattered puffies but I ain't going over the top of solid or even broken.
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Keeping in mind, of course, that as a Sport Pilot, you’re not allowed to fly “(13) Without visual reference to the surface.“
 
Flying over scattered yes, BKN or OVC no for me, unless it’s a small area and I can see the other side being open
 
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