very attractive 1/4 Eclipse offer??

olasek

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olasek
Found this on the controller. 1/4 Eclipse share for $75K sounds very inciting. The way I look at it they estimate the value of their 2007 Eclipse jet (with 895 hrs.) at $300K which is probably well below the market price. Or perhaps there is some sort of a 'catch' and it isn't a full 1/4 ownership.

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/ECLIPSE-500/2007-ECLIPSE-500/1312539.htm

Yeah, there's a catch. I suspect there's some outrageous management fee and log-term contract. The mgmt company is the one selling the share.
 
I am betting there is a catch to this somewhere, I don't like the Eclipse, but I'd give $75,000 for 1/4 share just to say I own a jet again!! :rofl::rofl:
 
I am betting there is a catch to this somewhere, I don't like the Eclipse, but I'd give $75,000 for 1/4 share just to say I own a jet again!! :rofl::rofl:

No kidding. When my wife finds out I swapped the 38yo 182 for a 2yo Jet she is going to be quite happy!
 
Very interesting that they give the cost of a share,without any info on the cost an hour and other fees that will be do. Also no info on hours you can use the plane.
 
Very interesting that they give the cost of a share,without any info on the cost an hour and other fees that will be do. Also no info on hours you can use the plane.

I suspect that is part of the 'Catch" $75,000 may be a down payment on a 1/4 share of the note! ;) Lot's of gotchas with jets, the difference in one with paid up engine maintenance vs one without is HUGE, those Williams engines are small, but pricey when they need work, just like any jet engine. :yikes:
 
those Williams engines are small, but pricey when they need work, just like any jet engine.
What Williams engines are we talking about here? Eclipse uses P&W engines, does it not? I seem to recall that some early prototype tried to get by with Williams engines, but it was abandoned long before first sales.
 
Chattanooga? We gotta get Bill Jennings to check that baby out!

I found a website for HessJet. Looks like they have charter service. Maybe this is $75k for a block of hours ala Netjets or something?
 
What Williams engines are we talking about here? Eclipse uses P&W engines, does it not? I seem to recall that some early prototype tried to get by with Williams engines, but it was abandoned long before first sales.

Sorry, you're right! Let me rephrase, P&W engines are expensive to work on! :D
 
Coming back to 1/4 share in Eclipse, I would probably PM Dave Siliciano first, hear his opinion.
 
Ive seen them here in Destin a few times, very cool looking airplane.
It's a shame it onlt carries 3 average-weight adults with full tanks. It's the only jet I've been upfront in.

I liked it, but I sure wouldn't buy one.
 
Very interesting write up about Eclipse ownership experience on Beechtalk:
http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=88575

Why is it that direct links to Beechtalk threads don't seem to require a login, but access to the general forum areas does?

I haven't registered there (yet), but always frustrating to find a thread link on Google that requires a login to see it, but not of them seem to. Strange.
 
It's a shame it onlt carries 3 average-weight adults with full tanks..
I would never call it a 'shame', it does offer certain useful payload, clearly not enough for you. These aircraft are predominantly operated on 300-600 nm legs anyway. Eclipse apparently offers impressive fuel economy comparing say to its larger brethren Mustang but yes at the expense of what you can haul. This is not my class of aircraft that I could afford or fly but wanted to make this simple observation.
 
I'm wondering if the PoA member who recently bought an Eclipse but hasn't posted that fact yet will weigh in ...
 
I'm wondering if the PoA member who recently bought an Eclipse but hasn't posted that fact yet will weigh in ...

Hey, all.

I was going to weigh in on this sooner, but it took me a while to get all the way through the Beech Talk comments as well as those on PoA.

I am very familiar with both Ted and Ken, who posted many comments on Beech Talk. I have enjoyed reading many of their observations on the Eclipse Owner's website, as well. They are both very knowledgable people and they both have good and accurate points.

I was flying a Meridian for the past seven years and I really loved the airplane. However, I was looking for a bit more speed and capability, so I started looking around. My analysis lead me to conclude that the Eclipse was the best next step for me.

I did my research over the course of about 7 months which included several discussions with the company, other owners and the maintenance facility. I also read almost every thread on the owners website and focused on the negative threads to see what I was getting into.

I decided that I would only consider an iFMS airplane, which is the highest upgrade of the Model 500. Many of the early problems of the airplane were resolved with the upgrade to version 1.5 / 1.7 and the iFMS is pretty much fully functional. Without question, the iFMS system has some quirks that require button pushing when you really want to fly the airplane, but a bit of training gets you comfortable with the system.

The Good:
It is a truly remarkable airplane and is unbelievably cool to fly. It performs very well and is extremely fuel efficient. I have flown the airplane in all kinds of weather conditions and have been very happy with its stability. It is just a rock solid airplane and handles turbulence very well. It is fast and I burn almost the same amount of fuel as I did in the Meridian for many of my trips. It cut the time significantly.

The Bad (?):
I was a bit worried about the maintenance of the airplane, but when I spoke to other owners and mechanics, I realized that the average annual fixed maintenance was a bit lower than the annual fixed maintenance that I was paying on the Meridian. The Eclipse has several components that are prone to failure and are expensive to repair but so do all of the airplanes that compete with it. For example, the ridiculously expensive heated windshield is the exact same price to replace on the Meridian as it is on the Eclipse.

The Ugly:
My biggest concern getting into the airplane was the company itself. I was concerned about the stability of the company, although I did come to believe that it will be around in some form or fashion. However, I was more concerned about the business practices of the company. I agree that Eclipse Aviation is a bit controlling with regard to the airplane and that they have somewhat predatory pricing. However, it is important to me that the company survive and I realize that they need to make money for that to happen. I also recognize that all aircraft manufacturers charge a ridiculous amount of money for parts. In addition, there are no other airplanes that I am aware of which will allow the owners to upgrade to the latest version at any price.

However, a word of caution for those looking into Eclipses: do your homework. There is a big difference between all of the different versions out there and you need to understand what you are getting.

It is safe to say that I knew what I was getting into when I decided to buy the plane and time will tell if it was a good decision or not. There was just nothing else on the market at anywhere near the acquisition cost that could perform at anywhere near the efficiency of the Eclipse. In addition, it is a BLAST to fly!!!!

I hope this helps!

Very truly yours,

Abram Finkelstein
N48KY
EA50
 
Even with there a catch, this does open an interesting conversation. Anyone know what the fixed costs would be on a jet like this. When divided between 4-6 partners, could the costs be competitive with a twin?


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I wouldn't touch an Eclipse unless you own a repair station. We had two based where I worked previously and one of them was almost always in the shop for something. One of them went through several pitot tubes in the time frame of a year, at $6k a pop. I just don't see the appeal when it hardly has more useful load than my little 182.... although it does have 200 knots on it, if I can't take 4 adults and get 4 hours away I don't particularly see the usefulness of it.
 
I wouldn't touch an Eclipse unless you own a repair station. We had two based where I worked previously and one of them was almost always in the shop for something. One of them went through several pitot tubes in the time frame of a year, at $6k a pop. I just don't see the appeal when it hardly has more useful load than my little 182.... although it does have 200 knots on it, if I can't take 4 adults and get 4 hours away I don't particularly see the usefulness of it.

Its my understanding that the newer models have greatly improved on reliability.
 
Its my understanding that the newer models have greatly improved on reliability.

You're probably correct. This company had the older ones, bought one new or nearly new and the second later for cheap (wonder why....?). I think they just picked up a 3rd even. The first two had to have the panel updated at the cost of something like a quarter mil? Their disbatch rate was also horrible. One of the reasons they had two is they needed a spare, seriously. Nice pilots, great company but clueless on airplane buying. Their big trips they need to take both, because otherwise they don't have the payload to get to 1200 miles without several stops. I also have friends who personally own one, but in their case it actually fits their mission and makes more sense than this company
 
I wouldn't touch an Eclipse unless you own a repair station..
Contradicts what these two Eclipse owners say about their reliability experiences, they pay about 1.6% of haul value in repairs/maintenance/upkeep annually which is less than about 2-3% on Cirrus aircraft.
 
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I wouldn't touch an Eclipse unless you own a repair station. We had two based where I worked previously and one of them was almost always in the shop for something. One of them went through several pitot tubes in the time frame of a year, at $6k a pop. I just don't see the appeal when it hardly has more useful load than my little 182.... although it does have 200 knots on it, if I can't take 4 adults and get 4 hours away I don't particularly see the usefulness of it.

If you talk to owners of most higher end (turbocharged/turboprop/pressurized) aircraft, it seems that's not uncommon. Even on the 310, there is always something on it that could stand to be addressed. These planes are complicated and designed to be lightweight.

As far as the appeal, it depends on your mission. It would be an excellent plane for what I do with dog flying, if we could afford it. I'd sure like to be able to cut my days with 10 hours in the seat down to 5. The useful load would be sufficient for us. They're on my want list for sure.
 
Chattanooga? We gotta get Bill Jennings to check that baby out!

I found a website for HessJet. Looks like they have charter service. Maybe this is $75k for a block of hours ala Netjets or something?

I can call about it. Damn. Wife wants to build a new house. Hmmm. House or jet? House or jet? House or jet?

Really that question would be house or jet+divorce. :eek:

Nah, but very tempting.
 
Ted is right, although I am not a fan of the Eclipse, it's way too small for what I need, all pressurized twins are expensive to maintain. :eek: Ones that burn Jet-A just adds a little more to the cost. Old Citations seem like a bargain, under $500K for 340+ knots and 7-8 seats, but keeping them flying is getting more and more expensive, and the fuel burn will bring tears to your eyes. ;) I don't doubt Eclipse is making money on parts, probably more than other manufacturers, but they are a niche market, nothing else is available in a jet as new or as cheap to operate. ;)

If you talk to owners of most higher end (turbocharged/turboprop/pressurized) aircraft, it seems that's not uncommon. Even on the 310, there is always something on it that could stand to be addressed. These planes are complicated and designed to be lightweight.

As far as the appeal, it depends on your mission. It would be an excellent plane for what I do with dog flying, if we could afford it. I'd sure like to be able to cut my days with 10 hours in the seat down to 5. The useful load would be sufficient for us. They're on my want list for sure.
 
Ted is right, although I am not a fan of the Eclipse, it's way too small for what I need, all pressurized twins are expensive to maintain. :eek: Ones that burn Jet-A just adds a little more to the cost. Old Citations seem like a bargain, under $500K for 340+ knots and 7-8 seats, but keeping them flying is getting more and more expensive, and the fuel burn will bring tears to your eyes. ;) I don't doubt Eclipse is making money on parts, probably more than other manufacturers, but they are a niche market, nothing else is available in a jet as new or as cheap to operate. ;)
You will see a lot of old Citations because the engines are toast and the cost for new ones exceeds the total value of the aircraft.

They're dirt cheap because you won't be able to do anything with them.
 
Ted is right, although I am not a fan of the Eclipse, it's way too small for what I need, all pressurized twins are expensive to maintain. :eek: Ones that burn Jet-A just adds a little more to the cost. Old Citations seem like a bargain, under $500K for 340+ knots and 7-8 seats, but keeping them flying is getting more and more expensive, and the fuel burn will bring tears to your eyes. ;) I don't doubt Eclipse is making money on parts, probably more than other manufacturers, but they are a niche market, nothing else is available in a jet as new or as cheap to operate. ;)

I don't know if they're making more money, per se. Have you seen what Cessna charges for some parts? It's crazy.

Mir made the point about not getting the appeal, my real point is some people don't need a big useful load and benefit from the efficiency. I'd certainly do well with it. And truthfully, the $/mile doesn't look much worse than a 421 depending on the mission.
 
Even the ones with good engine times are selling for the value of the engines! :rolleyes:

You will see a lot of old Citations because the engines are toast and the cost for new ones exceeds the total value of the aircraft.

They're dirt cheap because you won't be able to do anything with them.
 
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