Using oxygen

K

ksarrowpilot

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
10
Location
Kansas City
Display Name
Display name:
ksarrowpilot
A friend and I are considering the purchase of a newer turbo charged 182. I have never used supplemental oxygen and do not know the process for bringing along a bottle of oxygen and a mask. There will be times when I want to fly over 12,500 for over 30 minutes. I suppose I could ask my flight instructor, but it's Friday afternoon and I thought it would be more fun to hear from my fellow pilots.

Can anyone educate me on the process? I'm assuming you'd want a pulse/ox indicator, although I do not know the appropriate target levels. Do you just turn the tank on "full open" after you put the mask or cannula on? How long does a tank last for 4 adults in a 182? These are the kinds of questions I have. Any knowledge you can share would be great, thanks!
 
A blood oxygen meter is handy, target is to have over 90% saturation. Anyone who smokes will have a problem with accurate oxygen saturation reading. My instructor always read 100% no matter what and he was a smoker.

Rule-of-thumb is 1 liter/min oxygen for each 10,000 msl so set the regulator with that and then adjust to keep saturation over 90%. Breathing style has a lot to do with it.

I can't imagine having 4 people on oxygen in one aircraft though I guess some people do that. A bottle wouldn't last long unless it was a large bottle. I'm guessing an hour or so on most small bottles. Four liters/minute would require 240 liters obviously.

Oxygen is a good thing. I use it at night when over 10,000 and most any time I go above 13,000 unless it's a very short period over 13,000. I live in Denver so have some adaptation to high elevation. I used to have much better adaptation when I lived at 8,000.

edit: good links from other folks, Mountain High Oxygen has good info although their equipment is more sophisticated than many folks need
 
If you end up using a lot of it, purchase some large tanks from a gas distributor like Praxair, and transfill yourself. MUCH cheaper.

Oh, and look into welding oxygen. Pretty much everything I've read implies it's identical to aviator's oxygen, but hey this is just some guy on the internet taking, so make your own decision.
 
What are you guys seeing for price to refill Oxygen tanks? I have just about used up my tank in my Turbo 182 and since my local airport doesn't offer it, I really have no idea what it costs to fill up. btw, it really does wonders for my alertness above 11K.

To the original poster, in my T182T POH it says I can get 5hrs for pilot only. 1hr 45min for pilot and 3 passengers.
 
JasonM said:
What are you guys seeing for price to refill Oxygen tanks? I have just about used up my tank in my Turbo 182 and since my local airport doesn't offer it, I really have no idea what it costs to fill up. btw, it really does wonders for my alertness above 11K.

To the original poster, in my T182T POH it says I can get 5hrs for pilot only. 1hr 45min for pilot and 3 passengers.
Click to expand...

On a recent trip to OSH in a T182T, we flew at 17,500 the whole way.. It was 5 1/2 hours non stop from Jackson Hole... The climb up took 15 minutes and we started our decent to Ripon late, so maybe 4 3/4 hours on the bottle... Factory installed unit so I don't know the exact size of tank... Two of us in the plane and both wearing O2 monitors on our fingers..

The quirk in the Cessna was the overhead valve was either on or off.. Could never get a partial flow so it wasted O2... Our procedure was to get the O2 level to the low 90's, cut the flow till the O2 meter showed mid 80's and then back on again... By cycling it that way we made it the whole way and the bottle was just about empty at OSH..

After we got there I walked over to the pet store that is in the mall just past Frier Tucks and tried to buy two small needle valves, like they used to use in aquariums for the bubble thingies, to regulate the O2 flow.. Guess what,,, the young clerks had never heard or seen them before..:mad2: ... We had Basler fill the bottle but came back home at 10,500 so we didn't go back on the bottle..

Moral of the story is.. Cessna needs to add variable flow devices in the O2 feed lines . IMHO..
 
N801BH said:
On a recent trip to OSH in a T182T, we flew at 17,500 the whole way.. It was 5 1/2 hours non stop from Jackson Hole... The climb up took 15 minutes and we started our decent to Ripon late, so maybe 4 3/4 hours on the bottle... Factory installed unit so I don't know the exact size of tank... Two of us in the plane and both wearing O2 monitors on our fingers..

The quirk in the Cessna was the overhead valve was either on or off.. Could never get a partial flow so it wasted O2... Our procedure was to get the O2 level to the low 90's, cut the flow till the O2 meter showed mid 80's and then back on again... By cycling it that way we made it the whole way and the bottle was just about empty at OSH..

After we got there I walked over to the pet store that is in the mall just past Frier Tucks and tried to buy two small needle valves, like they used to use in aquariums for the bubble thingies, to regulate the O2 flow.. Guess what,,, the young clerks had never heard or seen them before..:mad2: ... We had Basler fill the bottle but came back home at 10,500 so we didn't go back on the bottle..

Moral of the story is.. Cessna needs to add variable flow devices in the O2 feed lines . IMHO..
Click to expand...

I agree. I was looking at one of these kits since the price seems better than oem and I only have 1 mask right now. I believe these are adjustable. I'll have to call to confirm. https://preciseflight.com/general-aviation/shop/kit/four-person-a5-breathing-station-cirrus-cessna/

the flow meter: https://preciseflight.com/general-aviation/shop/product/a-5-flow-meter-tubing-and-cpc-connector/
 
My 2002 t182t had built in oxygen which I enjoyed. The nasal cannula I used have flow meters on them. You adjust the flow on the regulator based on your altitude.

Anytime Im getting over 11,000 or so I would put it on as I believe it does help. I'm a physician and I never purchased a pulse oximetry. Not that it's a bad thing I just run my oxygen a liter higher then my flight level. I may buy one in near future more out of curiosity of my levels then need.

I agree with tobacco use, really good idea to have one. Wish you had on board oxygen, I have 4 cannulas and the adapters to connect to the aircraft I could sell.

Oxygen really isn't rocket science, if your going to fly where you need oxygen frequently check on a pulse oxygen system. Contact Mountain High Aviation Oxygen or look at them online. They have everything you may need.
 
I have this four place portable from Sporty's. We use it from 10K on up to fly vfr over the top and anytime at night over 5K. My wife and I start first and the kids later using 90% as our minimum. We get a good 8-10 hrs from the 24 cu ft.

http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/12996
 
Jthamilton;1423121......[B said:
I never purchased a pulse oximetry. Not that it's a bad thing I just run my oxygen a liter higher then my flight level. I may buy one in near future more out of curiosity of my levels then need.[/B]

......
Click to expand...

Up till that flight, I had never used a Oximeter either, but the readout and trends were enlightening to see. Especially how sensitive they are and how fast they react... I kid you not, I could turn off my O2 supply and within a couple of minutes you could see the O2 level decreasing on the meter...

http://www.aeromedix.com/Nonin-9590-Onyx-Vantage-Fingertip-Pulse-Oximeter.html
 
N801BH said:
On a recent trip to OSH in a T182T, we flew at 17,500 the whole way.. It was 5 1/2 hours non stop from Jackson Hole... The climb up took 15 minutes and we started our decent to Ripon late, so maybe 4 3/4 hours on the bottle... Factory installed unit so I don't know the exact size of tank... Two of us in the plane and both wearing O2 monitors on our fingers..

The quirk in the Cessna was the overhead valve was either on or off.. Could never get a partial flow so it wasted O2... Our procedure was to get the O2 level to the low 90's, cut the flow till the O2 meter showed mid 80's and then back on again... By cycling it that way we made it the whole way and the bottle was just about empty at OSH..

After we got there I walked over to the pet store that is in the mall just past Frier Tucks and tried to buy two small needle valves, like they used to use in aquariums for the bubble thingies, to regulate the O2 flow.. Guess what,,, the young clerks had never heard or seen them before..:mad2: ... We had Basler fill the bottle but came back home at 10,500 so we didn't go back on the bottle..

Moral of the story is.. Cessna needs to add variable flow devices in the O2 feed lines . IMHO..
Click to expand...

Did Cessna plan for you to have a flow meter between their outlet and your nasal mask?
 
BillTIZ said:
Did Cessna plan for you to have a flow meter between their outlet and your nasal mask?
Click to expand...
I don't know... The other poster said his 182 came with flow meters though..... And that is why it didn't get "installed" even if we had found those needle valves,, altho the cannellas were not a Cessna part number either... It did make for an interesting discussion at dinner that night though..
 
N801BH said:
I don't know... The other poster said his 182 came with flow meters though..... And that is why it didn't get "installed" even if we had found those needle valves,, altho the cannellas were not a Cessna part number either... It did make for an interesting discussion at dinner that night though..
Click to expand...

I ordered 2 of mine from Sportys which had the flow meter in the middle of the tubing. 2 came with the aircraft when I bought it couple years ago and they too had the flow meter. Must be common set up as my Saratoga has similar set up between the valve and cannula.

Do other models come with flow meters independent of the tubing, like cirrus or beech models?
 
Jthamilton said:
I ordered 2 of mine from Sportys which had the flow meter in the middle of the tubing. 2 came with the aircraft and they too had the flow meter. Must be common set up as my Saratoga has similar set up between the valve and cannula.
Click to expand...


Interesting.. This is a newer 182 and the ones that were in the plane were basic canalles with a clear tube that plugged into the ports above our heads..
 
Yep I had 2002, not sure what they did after that in regards to how you attached the cannulas to the aircraft. But sounds like same set up as mine.
 
N801BH said:
Interesting.. This is a newer 182 and the ones that were in the plane were basic canalles with a clear tube that plugged into the ports above our heads..
Click to expand...

I carry a portable tank in my glider. The 2000psi tank is reduced to about 30psi by the regulator, you still need a flow meter (with a ball float and needle valve) to reduce the flow to what you need for the altitude.

My question would be, where in your overhead system was there an adjustment valve for altitude or was it "automatic"?
 
BillTIZ said:
I carry a portable tank in my glider. The 2000psi tank is reduced to about 30psi by the regulator, you still need a flow meter (with a ball float and needle valve) to reduce the flow to what you need for the altitude.

My question would be, where in your overhead system was there an adjustment valve for altitude or was it "automatic"?
Click to expand...

We never did figure that out during the OSH trip... The valve acted like a simple ball valve but would not meter.. It was either full on or full off.. I would love to see how the transfer ports are cut in it that made it unable to limit the flow.. If there was a metering device in the system,, we surely didn't find it... This system did seem to be able to reduce the 3000psi down to maybe 6"-8" wc and that slight flow was enough to pass enough O2... You could barely feel it flow into your nostrils but was adequate to boost the blood O2 level back up to the low 90's from the mid 80's in less then 5 minutes... It was a new plane to the owner back then and the first time the O2 system was used by us..

Nice plane though... 5.5 hours from Jackson Hole to OSH @ 17,500.. We had a nice tailwind, which helped.. 2200 rpms /29"mp/1625f TIT/ one notch of cowl flaps gave us 370f cht and the fuel burn was 12.2 -12.5 the entire time we were up high and cruising, Landed with 16.5 gallons left... I was impressed...
 
Your O2 tank has about 50 ft3. The numbers in the POH are for a standard mask, and not very efficient. I use the OxySaver cannulas. With the flow meter properly adjusted for altitude, I find that two people will get about 2 hours per minor graduation on the pressure gauge. This is much longer than the POH. Cost to fill is from $60 to $90 depending on where you get it done.
 
skidoo said:
Your O2 tank has about 50 ft3. The numbers in the POH are for a standard mask, and not very efficient. I use the OxySaver cannulas. With the flow meter properly adjusted for altitude, I find that two people will get about 2 hours per minor graduation on the pressure gauge. This is much longer than the POH. Cost to fill is from $60 to $90 depending on where you get it done.
Click to expand...

X 2 on the oxysavers!

I really don't think the Cessna system is meant to adjust automatically outside of the pilot changing the flow rate on the flow meter. I'm thinking your cannulas should have had flow meters. However it would be nice.
 
skidoo said:
Your O2 tank has about 50 ft3. The numbers in the POH are for a standard mask, and not very efficient. I use the OxySaver cannulas. With the flow meter properly adjusted for altitude, I find that two people will get about 2 hours per minor graduation on the pressure gauge. This is much longer than the POH. Cost to fill is from $60 to $90 depending on where you get it done.
Click to expand...

KTEX did it for $26 and my home field is $50. Price varies significantly. If you go to a mountain airport, it's generally cheaper.
 
Clark1961 said:
Mountain High Oxygen has good info although their equipment is more sophisticated than many folks need
Click to expand...

Mountain High has excellent equipment. Only squirts oxygen at the beginning of each breath where it is used and not wasted in a continual flow. I found 'using' above 9,500 is very helpful and always at night to keep night vision crisp.

I always travel in the low teens so use it a lot. Very small bottle gets me from Kalifornia to Osh and back.

Learned at Osh seminar by MD that the regs are not practical and a more conservative approach is best, as others have already said here. :yesnod:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top