Using dual G5s in IFR/IMC

jsstevens

jsstevens

Final Approach
PoA Supporter
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
6,809
Display Name
Display name:
jsstevens
For those who fly behind Dual Garmin G5s, any tips or tricks to using them in IMC?

I'm flying my IR check ride in a plane so equipped and for reasons to numerous to cite here I haven't used them yet. (I will get a practice flight in before the ride I'm just trying to short cut the learning curve a bit.)

John
 
Not a whole heck of a lot different if you flew AI/HSI. You can still do whatever scan you normally do - which I would do for the check ride for sure - but I find myself not scanning as much as I used to since all the information is on the G5s.
 
Be sure you can set alt/hdg bugs without thinking. There is also some knob push/twist/push/twisting to learn for setting courses on ILS/VORs. Like the G1000, if you push/hold the knob on the HSI, the bug will set to current heading. To be honest, I find the analog rate of turn/slip-skip and VSI easier to interpret. The G5s are just a tad too small for tape-based trending.
 
If you are going to fly an ILS without loading an approach, be sure the inbound course is set or you will not get a glide slope. It should do this for you if the approach is loaded into a GTN750 for example.
 
Try to keep the brown side on the bottom


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
DesertNomad said:
If you are going to fly an ILS without loading an approach, be sure the inbound course is set or you will not get a glide slope. It should do this for you if the approach is loaded into a GTN750 for example.
Click to expand...

It literally will not display the Glideslope needle(arrow, dot or whatever)?? I haven’t flown IFR with a G5, just once VFR and I didn’t know much about it. Just a few things from the ‘quick reference’ that seemed to matter to me at the time. But your saying that if the course isn’t set exactly to Final Approach Course bearing, it just ignores the Glideslope signal? Does it ‘flag’ like it would do if it just wasn’t getting the signal?
 
I find the VSI on the G5 to small to clearly read my rate, so I still look at the old VSI.
 
1) Make sure the course is set. It usually is, but double check it when you load the approach and as part of your briefing. There are certain times it won't get set and you'll have to do it manually.

2) Make sure you remember to press the CDI switch on the GPS. It is a simple, easy error to make.

3) G5s actually make VOR holds much easier.

4) Some DPEs will fail both of them for the partial panel - know how to turn them off quickly and resort to the rest of your scan. Your best friends in this situation are the combination of the TC, VSI, Altimeter and GPS screen.
 
N1120A said:
1) Make sure the course is set. It usually is, but double check it when you load the approach and as part of your briefing. There are certain times it won't get set and you'll have to do it manually.

2) Make sure you remember to press the CDI switch on the GPS. It is a simple, easy error to make.

3) G5s actually make VOR holds much easier.

4) Some DPEs will fail both of them for the partial panel - know how to turn them off quickly and resort to the rest of your scan. Your best friends in this situation are the combination of the TC, VSI, Altimeter and GPS screen.
Click to expand...
Per 4- what's left to use?
 
jsstevens said:
For those who fly behind Dual Garmin G5s, any tips or tricks to using them in IMC?

I'm flying my IR check ride in a plane so equipped and for reasons to numerous to cite here I haven't used them yet. (I will get a practice flight in before the ride I'm just trying to short cut the learning curve a bit.)

John
Click to expand...

I have gotten into the bad habit of not looking at the magnetic compass since the G5 self-calibrates. In fact, I can't remember looking at the compass in the last few flights.
 
5QK said:
Per 4- what's left to use?
Click to expand...

Compass, Airspeed, Altimeter, VSI, and if he only fails the G5, you still have your GPS box to navigate. If he fails the GPS as well. Get vectors from ATC. If the GPS is the only COM, then the DPE is just mean.
 
Last edited:
TommyG said:
I find the VSI on the G5 to small to clearly read my rate, so I still look at the old VSI.
Click to expand...
The VSI scale is adjustable, so if it's set too high it can make 500 fpm a tiny blip. Might want to check that setting out.
 
Salty said:
The VSI scale is adjustable, so if it's set too high it can make 500 fpm a tiny blip. Might want to check that setting out.
Click to expand...

It's still pretty narrow though.
 
I find the VSI on the G5 is usable, but takes getting used to. Once you get a sense of the scan involved, you start using it more than the classic VSI.

5QK said:
Per 4- what's left to use?
Click to expand...

GPS navigator (in the case of my checkride, a 530W), compass, TC, VSI, Altimeter, backup AI (that plane has one because it has an old Piper AP that needs attitude, and I never used it) and ASI. On approaches, I find that the AI is less useful in my scan than the TC/VSI combo, so that helps.

Legally speaking, you'd probably be able to take up a dual G5 failure with the FSDO, if you blew your partial panel, given that the whole point of both is that you are looking at an infinitesimal chance of dual failure (electrical, plus battery, plus internals, of two reversionary instruments). Of course, it is easy enough to fly an approach without them by using the other stuff in the plane - especially a non-precision approach with step downs.
 
Not having overlays on the ehsi would increase my workload as I’d have to sigh and shake my head every time I looked at the ehsi. Aside from that it’s be great, you can snap the heading bug in the G5 right?
 
Not sure exactly what your situation is (upgrade, new plane, etc), but if you have an autopilot that's hooked into the G5's GPS steering (GPSS) module, know how to enable that. (Press the knob on the G5 and GPSS is an option to turn on or off.) My understanding is that some DPEs will want to ensure you know how to use all systems in your airplane, and I know a pilot or two who got confused the first time they found the GPSS option had moved from a separate button to hidden inside the G5 menu.
 
I know I might get flack for saying this; but I never set my heading bug to my course or WCA on my G5 HSI. When enroute I simply fly off the groud track needle as setting the bug only serves to cover up the ground track. While on approach/takeoff I set the bug to the wind. My CDI is is set for backup, and this is all GPS/RNAV
 
I would probably want an hour or two of hood time flying the thing before I took a checkride with it, especially if I was unfamiliar with an HSI. But that's just me, dumb obnoxious fat ugly bald kid.
 
steingar said:
I would probably want an hour or two of hood time flying the thing before I took a checkride with it, especially if I was unfamiliar with an HSI. But that's just me, dumb obnoxious fat ugly bald kid.
Click to expand...

Oh trust me, I'll get more than that. But I've never flown IFR behind these and wanted pointers. I also read the manual... (I'll keep my man card though...)
 
PatternBreak said:
I know I might get flack for saying this; but I never set my heading bug to my course or WCA on my G5 HSI. When enroute I simply fly off the groud track needle as setting the bug only serves to cover up the ground track. While on approach/takeoff I set the bug to the wind. My CDI is is set for backup, and this is all GPS/RNAV
Click to expand...

And when ATC assigns a heading?
 
jsstevens said:
Oh trust me, I'll get more than that. But I've never flown IFR behind these and wanted pointers. I also read the manual... (I'll keep my man card though...)
Click to expand...
They are a bit different. Flew right seat next to a pair the other day. Tape readouts need a bit of adjustment, since you have to read them, and can't just glance. And an HSI is a new thing to learn. Good luck, hopefully I'll follow in your footsteps some day.
 
EdFred said:
And when ATC assigns a heading?
Click to expand...
If ATC assigns a heading I'll set the heading bug and fly off that. Cant use the ground track as the controller is already anticipating the wind. I dont use the heading bug for normal enroute as you're just lagging behind in your wind correction when you could be flying exactly on track with aforementioned ground track needle. This is all non autopilot operation.
 
PatternBreak said:
If ATC assigns a heading I'll set the heading bug and fly off that. Cant use the ground track as the controller is already anticipating the wind. I dont use the heading bug for normal enroute as you're just lagging behind in your wind correction when you could be flying exactly on track with aforementioned ground track needle. This is all non autopilot operation.
Click to expand...

Controllers are awful at wind correction though, and are vectoring you primarily on ground track
 
N1120A said:
Controllers are awful at wind correction though, and are vectoring you primarily on ground track
Click to expand...
I feel like sometimes its best just to ask them what ground track they want you to fly as opposed to heading. The controllers have enough work on their hands without having to worry about giving me vectors while I fly over a class bravo trying to intercept the ILS.
 
PatternBreak said:
I feel like sometimes its best just to ask them what ground track they want you to fly as opposed to heading. The controllers have enough work on their hands without having to worry about giving me vectors while I fly over a class bravo trying to intercept the ILS.
Click to expand...

Don't make things complicated. They say fly heading 090, fly 090. If they need something different, they'll ask.
 
PatternBreak said:
I feel like sometimes its best just to ask them what ground track they want you to fly as opposed to heading. The controllers have enough work on their hands without having to worry about giving me vectors while I fly over a class bravo trying to intercept the ILS.
Click to expand...
No, don't do this. They have an idea on what the winds are doing and are giving you vectors and everyone else vectors based on that same idea. If some people start flying tracks while others fly magnetic headings you are only going to make their job harder. Fly the heading they give you, don't try to outsmart the controller. When they say fly heading 090. They want you to fly heading 090. If they say track heading 090 (hint: they rarely if ever do) then track 090. When they ask you to decrease speed to 140 knots, do you adjust so your groundspeed is 140 knots?
 
TheGolfPilot said:
No, don't do this. They have an idea on what the winds are doing and are giving you vectors and everyone else vectors based on that same idea. If some people start flying tracks while others fly magnetic headings you are only going to make their job harder. Fly the heading they give you, don't try to outsmart the controller. When they say fly heading 090. They want you to fly heading 090. If they say track heading 090 (hint: they rarely if ever do) then track 090. When they ask you to decrease speed to 140 knots, do you adjust so your groundspeed is 140 knots?
Click to expand...

Good analogy with the speed thang
 
Yeah, that works right until they give you a vector right on top of a FAF when they've already kept you high, in IMC.
 
I've been told to fly headings as well as tracks and I fly what they tell me, when they tell me. If they keep giving me different headings on a windy day I might ask if a track would help them. They really just want to hand me off to the Delta. It's just an option
 
N1120A said:
Yeah, that works right until they give you a vector right on top of a FAF when they've already kept you high, in IMC.
Click to expand...
Worst I've seen is a customer's global got dumped to tower at FL250 as soon as he hit the IAF. They were more than a little upset and ended up doing convoluted circles before entering the hold.
 
PatternBreak said:
Worst I've seen is a customer's global got dumped to tower at FL250 as soon as he hit the IAF. They were more than a little upset and ended up doing convoluted circles before entering the hold.
Click to expand...

Where on earth did they do that?
 
N1120A said:
Where on earth did they do that?
Click to expand...
Saint Louis approache at night while the aircraft was going KSUS. Saint louis sometimes gets damn lazy at night (or perhaps busy) and drops the ball on aircraft that aren't theirs. Not saying they're always bad, I've had some super helpful controllers
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top