Upholstery—A&P necessary?

birdus

birdus

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Jay Williams
Is it necessary to get a new W&B or to get an A&P involved after simply reupholstering seat cushions?
 
more than 1lb change is considered appreciable difference. Also, be sure to use the correct "flame resistant" materials.
 
I mean, it's one of those things where what people do vs. what may be technically required are often different. When I was in a club with an old beater Cherokee, we got the seat re-cushioned and covered after it basically collapsed from wear. I wasn't in charge, but I know there was no W&B done and the difference was probably negligible anyway. For their to be a full pound difference between the old and new, you'd have to be going to some totally different kind of material or something. If you are just replacing cloth with cloth, it's probably not gonna change much of anything.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
more than 1lb change is considered appreciable difference. Also, be sure to use the correct "flame resistant" materials.
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So, if it were 5 pounds (I don't know yet, but the old foam seems really heavy), then do W&B, but no need for an A&P's involvement? I'm a first-time plane owner and not a pilot, yet, so I don't know these things.
 
birdus said:
So, if it were 5 pounds (I don't know yet, but the old foam seems really heavy), then do W&B, but no need for an A&P's involvement? I'm a first-time plane owner and not a pilot, yet, so I don't know these things.
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you should coordinate this with your A&P. You don't want problems at annual time. If the weight is different by more than 1lb your A&P needs to update the W&B. Also, while you have things apart take a close look at the seat frames for wear and damage. Often times it's hidden by the fabric. And be sure and use the correct materials....or you could have problems with that too.

"Flame resistance" is not a requirement under CAR 3. Likely your aircraft. You didn't say.

If you need to meet the burn resistance requirements of part 23... I have discovered several products that meet FAR 25.853 (a) & (b) and another product that meets FAR 25.853 appendix F a(1) (i). These products are flame retardant penetrants that can be directly applied to the fabric. I believe either of these products would exceed the "flame resistance" FAR 23.853 requirement for part 91 operations.

Check the TCDS (Type Certificate Data Sheets) for your model aircraft (can be found at the FAA website FAA.Gov)....it will tell you what it was certified under.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
you should coordinate this with your A&P. You don't want problems at annual time. If the weight is different by more than 1lb your A&P needs to update the W&B. Also, while you have things apart take a close look at the seat frames for wear and damage. Often times it's hidden by the fabric. And be sure and use the correct materials....or you could have problems with that too.

"Flame resistance" is not a requirement under CAR 3. Likely your aircraft. You didn't say.

If you need to meet the burn resistance requirements of part 23... I have discovered several products that meet FAR 25.853 (a) & (b) and another product that meets FAR 25.853 appendix F a(1) (i). These products are flame retardant penetrants that can be directly applied to the fabric. I believe either of these products would exceed the "flame resistance" FAR 23.853 requirement for part 91 operations.

Check the TCDS (Type Certificate Data Sheets) for your model aircraft (can be found at the FAA website FAA.Gov)....it will tell you what it was certified under.
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Great! Thank you!
 
MuseChaser said:
Color me totally confused... and amused, but not sure why.. I thought "pasties" were nipple coverings used by strippers? I had a T-shirt on while I was mowing...
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I was thinking these things:
traditional-cornish-pasty-recipe-435042-Hero-5b6997cbc9e77c0050b1b6e1.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasty
 
birdus said:
Is it necessary to get a new W&B or to get an A&P involved after simply reupholstering seat cushions?
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Weight the interior before and after. If less than a pound the A&P can make s log entry sating "No appreciable change in W&B. Also indicate the material are burn test certified.
 
NordicDave said:
Weight the interior before and after. If less than a pound the A&P can make s log entry sating "No appreciable change in W&B. Also indicate the material are burn test certified.
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Or just include your $50 burn cert paper with your files.
 
The place where I'm going to have the upholstery done advertises aircraft work and said something about certification papers on the phone. At the time, I didn't know what she meant, but I think this must be it.
 
Stewartb said:
Yawn. $50 wasted.
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For $50 why not no matter the reg.


birdus said:
The place where I'm going to have the upholstery done advertises aircraft work and said something about certification papers on the phone. At the time, I didn't know what she meant, but I think this must be it.
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Sounds expensive, I’d stay away from aviation shops, just pull your seats and panels out and take them to a hotrod shop

Check these links out.


Here are a few things to read

https://www.avweb.com/ownership/interiors-legalities-and-part-91-aircraft/
The legal stuff


https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tijuana-body-paint-and-upholstery.796439/
These guys know their upholstery.


And check out kangaroo leather too

https://maverickleathercompany.com/product/kangaroo-lhg/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_leather
 
birdus said:
The place where I'm going to have the upholstery done...
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FWIW: Another option that I've used to reduce splitting hairs on the CAR3/FAR23 flash-flame-burn tests/certs, keep costs down, and reduce future IA/annual issues is to purchase bulk material with proper test documentation and take it to the nearest upholsterer. For me that was an old Cuban guy that could recover anything. As mentioned, aviation shops labor tend to be much higher. Regardless, the finish product will require a Part 43 sign off.
 
birdus said:
Does that just mean an A&P will need to sign some paperwork for me?
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No.

He may have to install the seats or something, but the fabric work, no.

It’s all in the article I linked.
 
James331 said:
No.

He may have to install the seats or something, but the fabric work, no.

It’s all in the article I linked.
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Okay. I'll check out the article. By the way, the seats in a Luscombe just pop in and out. No tools necessary.
 
birdus said:
Does that just mean an A&P will need to sign some paperwork for me?
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Depends how deep you want to read Part 43 Appendix A(c)(11). But if there is a weight chg of more than a pound will still need an A&P to correct difference. The only one who may question your sign off would be your IA at annual time. So one option is to see where he/she sits on that first. I always kept open dialogue with my customers/owners so there were "limited" future surprises.
 
Bell206 said:
Depends how deep you want to read Part 43 Appendix A(c)(11). But if there is a weight chg of more than a pound will still need an A&P to correct difference. The only one who may question your sign off would be your IA at annual time. So one option is to see where he/she sits on that first. I always kept open dialogue with my customers/owners so there were "limited" future surprises.
Click to expand...

Indeed, thus a AP (ideally your normal IA) may be needed, a new W&B ain’t that big of a deal if you just weigh before and after, as far as the legality of getting the fabric work done that’s written up in that article to ad nauseam, get your $40 burn cert like the article says and you’re good to go, if your IA has any questions send him the link to the article.
 
Yeah. About all of this.
No one here EVER put in extra cushions to raise the seat height for someone?
Or a child seat?
Did you get an A&P and do a weight and balance?
Didn't think so.
Common sense, people. Common sense.
 
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