Update on airplane after purchase

gitmo234

gitmo234

Line Up and Wait
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
827
Location
Oxford, PA
Display Name
Display name:
gitmo234
Several months ago I bought a well priced 1956 Cessna 172 (with a garmin 430). I posted the entire buying process, including my flight from Indianapolis to its permanent home at 58M.

I wanted to post a small update.

The spinner dome I had welded cracked again. The crack is very, very minor but its being replaced (as we speak, actually). The spinner dome specific to this aircraft and prop was $385. I had the option for a generic one for $250, but then it would have to be cut, etc. Figured with labor it was a wash and I'd rather have a specific model, I speculate its more likely to last.

Otherwise I've noticed that the trim setting for takeoff is very nose high. I've been playing with trimming it down some. With it trimmed at take-off it practically climbs at best rate of climb on its own.

Another thing I've noticed (I thought it was wrong until my instructor corrected me) is that this thing takes a lot of runway to get up. I was worried about it being a weak engine but my instructor who has a lot of experience with the O-300 continentals said its normal and they used to use a degree of flaps during take off "back in the day". I tried that out and it actually got off the ground really fast and caught appropriate airspeed very, very quick.

The other thing i noticed is that the damn thing is almost impossible to stall. Last night my CFI were out doing some checkride prep. In a power on stall, I was pulling back as far as it could go and we were losing altitude but it just wouldnt stall. It was mushy and hard to control but it just wouldnt stall. The previous owner told me the same thing. I'd have a hell of a time getting it to stall.

Other than that, I'm loving 40 degree flaps. I use them sparingly but I do, it's true love.

I'm waiting on a call from my CFI now, the DPE he uses wants to meet with a student in person prior to the checkride. My CFI is going to call me this week with the date I'll be meeting him.

I'm curious how it will go with an older aircraft. There are a lot of things that are different compared to newer aircraft.
 
Forgot to add that a few weeks ago the FAA sent my registration and bill of sale back because the dealer didnt write "LLC" next to their name. So I had to write "LLC" after their name and mail it back.
 
gitmo234 said:
Otherwise I've noticed that the trim setting for takeoff is very nose high. I've been playing with trimming it down some. With it trimmed at take-off it practically climbs at best rate of climb on its own.

Another thing I've noticed (I thought it was wrong until my instructor corrected me) is that this thing takes a lot of runway to get up. I was worried about it being a weak engine but my instructor who has a lot of experience with the O-300 continentals said its normal and they used to use a degree of flaps during take off "back in the day". I tried that out and it actually got off the ground really fast and caught appropriate airspeed very, very quick.

The other thing i noticed is that the damn thing is almost impossible to stall. Last night my CFI were out doing some checkride prep. In a power on stall, I was pulling back as far as it could go and we were losing altitude but it just wouldnt stall. It was mushy and hard to control but it just wouldnt stall. The previous owner told me the same thing. I'd have a hell of a time getting it to stall.
Click to expand...
Sounds like your CG was a bit forward for those flights.
 
The entire point of "Take off trim" is that it climbs at best rate of climb on it's own.
 
Henning said:
The entire point of "Take off trim" is that it climbs at best rate of climb on it's own.
Click to expand...

Okay so the S models I've flown, when the trim is set to take off the aircraft isnt going to get off the ground on its own, nor is it going to climb without back pressure.

In this one, with very little back pressure, it will get off the ground on its own and climb with trim to set to take off.

So then both are normal?
 
gitmo234 said:
Okay so the S models I've flown, when the trim is set to take off the aircraft isnt going to get off the ground on its own, nor is it going to climb without back pressure.

In this one, with very little back pressure, it will get off the ground on its own and climb with trim to set to take off.

So then both are normal?
Click to expand...

Both are normal, yours is correct.:D It's not that big of a deal since it is just an semi-calibrated initial reference marking that you can immediately adjust as appropriate. Yours demonstrates that the rigging of your trim system is correct. You should always be trimmed for the speed you want to be flying right now. The only time you should be applying control pressure is in times of transition.
 
Do you have any STOL stuff on your 172?

VGs, droop tips, cuff, fences etc?
 
gitmo234 said:
I'm curious how it will go with an older aircraft. There are a lot of things that are different compared to newer aircraft.
Click to expand...

The job of the DPE is to evaluate/rate YOU, not the aircraft.
You can be satisfied that if the guy is a DPE, he's been around long enough not to be intimidated by vintage aircraft (and neither will you be after a few more hours under your belt)
;)
 
The DPE will test you,with the equipment you have installed. He's testing your flying abilities.
 
James331 said:
Do you have any STOL stuff on your 172?

VGs, droop tips, cuff, fences etc?
Click to expand...

I have no STOL equipment installed.

Both are normal, yours is correct.:D It's not that big of a deal since it is just an semi-calibrated initial reference marking that you can immediately adjust as appropriate. Yours demonstrates that the rigging of your trim system is correct. You should always be trimmed for the speed you want to be flying right now. The only time you should be applying control pressure is in times of transition.
Click to expand...

Good catch on the normal vs correct. I honestly had no idea that my current configuration was correct. I thought it was way out of trim and was considering pushing forward some, etc.

I cant remember the specifics about the model, but i know some of the requirements of what's in an aircraft now were not requirements then, for example, I have a special piece of paperwork showing that I have stall warning indicators installed (they werent standard in 1956).

For example, back in '56 (and maybe still today) cessna didnt make flight manuals. The information for flight manuals (as required by FAA) is in airplane instruction manual. Today that information is on a placard. I asked if I should just have a placard made up but my CFI said my DPE will know those difference and will likely ask me for the operators manual for most things.

Separate from check ride requirement, I wish there was a table of the various speeds. Its easy enough to fly the plane. Very easy, actually, but the manual says, for example, the best rate of climb is "between 53 and 60 mph".



All that being said I greatly enjoy getting to know my own airplane. Very happy with the investment.
 

Attachments

  • photo 7.JPG
    photo 7.JPG
    1.9 MB · Views: 63
gitmo234 said:
Okay so the S models I've flown, when the trim is set to take off the aircraft isnt going to get off the ground on its own, nor is it going to climb without back pressure.

In this one, with very little back pressure, it will get off the ground on its own and climb with trim to set to take off.

So then both are normal?
Click to expand...

I flew an R model last week. Full fuel, single pilot, no pax. Trim was set to the "takeoff" setting. Aircraft rotated and began initial climb on its own with no pitch inputs from me. I did apply more nose down trim to catch Vy.
 
The best way to find out if your engine is putting out the proper power is to do a full-throttle static run-up and see if it's making the minimum required RPM. For your 1956 C-172, the numbers depend on which prop you have:


  • McCauley 1A170/DM: Not over 2360, not under 2230​
  • Sensenich M74DR or 74DR: Not over 2430, not under 2300​
​
If you aren't getting that minimum, you need to have your engine checked out by a good engine mechanic to check everything from the carb to the mags to the cam to the valves to the cylinders to the exhaust system until the issue is identified and resolved.​
​
Note that while you can shorten your takeoff roll by using one notch of flaps, if you can't get your 172 airborne safely without that, either you're on a very short runway or there's something wrong with your engine or you're overloaded.​
​
BTW, your trim issues suggest either the aircraft is loaded beyond the forward cg limit or there's something misadjusted in the pitch control system.​
 
Last edited:
I'll look through the logs and take a look. With regards to the trim its very likely just my adjustment from flying the S model. Everyone but me seems to think so.

58M is a 3000 foot runway, I usually end up on 31, going up hill. I seem to take about 1500 to 1600 feet of that to get up. I need to re-check the operation manual because I do know the older models had a longer ground roll
 
Grade makes a big difference. On a calm morning take off both directions and see what difference you see.
 
From end to end there's a 40 foot change in elevation. Usually I'm headed uphill as the wind is typically right down 31. 13 is down hill
 
Henning said:
The entire point of "Take off trim" is that it climbs at best rate of climb on it's own.
Click to expand...


Hmm. That is a very interesting idea...
But on the CAP 172 and 'trim for takeoff' seems a bit much.
First thing I do after rotating at 55kts.. I pitch down and lower the node via trim wheel.

I'm going to try and not pitch down and see what I climb out at.
 
The trim indicator is just a reference. If it gives you too much up trim on take off just trim it a little forward on the next take off and do that until you find the setting that gives you what you want. You will also find that when you load it up with passengers you will have to trim it further forward on take off. Like Henning said it should be trimmed to the initial climb attitude that you want to fly. Don
 
Ron Levy said:
The best way to find out if your engine is putting out the proper power is to do a full-throttle static run-up and see if it's making the minimum required RPM. For your 1956 C-172, the numbers depend on which prop you have:


  • McCauley 1A170/DM: Not over 2360, not under 2230​
  • Sensenich M74DR or 74DR: Not over 2430, not under 2300​
​
If you aren't getting that minimum, you need to have your engine checked out by a good engine mechanic to check everything from the carb to the mags to the cam to the valves to the cylinders to the exhaust system until the issue is identified and resolved.​
​
Note that while you can shorten your takeoff roll by using one notch of flaps, if you can't get your 172 airborne safely without that, either you're on a very short runway or there's something wrong with your engine or you're overloaded.​
​
BTW, your trim issues suggest either the aircraft is loaded beyond the forward cg limit or there's something misadjusted in the pitch control system.​
Click to expand...

And use an optical tach. The mechanical one on a 1956 Cessna might not be the most accurate.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top