Unprofessional Pilot Behavior Part 2

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Everything Offends Me
Lets not flame people, so this can continue intelligently. I just saw that thread. the OP made a valid point in that when the pilot is out of the cockpit now, I've noticed a lot of airlines will actually block the aisle with a drink cart or a fat dude to ensure "safety" of the aircraft.

If that is, in fact, what happened, I would say it was very unprofessional for a pilot to be socializing, blocking the aisle for people that need to use the lav.

If its not, then, it was at least rude to the other pilot because the other pilot had to wear an uncomfortable mask while he was away.
 
We weren't there...we don't know if there was socializing or something work related (though I can't imagine what it could be). I see your point, but there aren't any facts in evidence to know if the pilot/ FA were being rude or if it was actually work related.

The OP was being quite rude...

Edit- I meant the OP in the closed thread. I wasn't implying anything about Nick...
 
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There was this time on the hotel shuttle from the airport to the hotel that the driver did NOT offer to pick up my bag! :yikes:

Instead, he was helping a little old lady in a wheelchair board the bus.
 
We closed the other thread for a reason. Reopening a closed thread in a new thread is bypassing the closure. Please don't do it again.
 
After review, the MC voted to reopen this thread, as the previous thread was not closed due to the topic, but the bad behavior of a few within that topic.
 
*Snort* Yeah, right.

SkyHog said:
Lets not flame people, so this can continue intelligently. I just saw that thread. the OP made a valid point in that when the pilot is out of the cockpit now, I've noticed a lot of airlines will actually block the aisle with a drink cart or a fat dude to ensure "safety" of the aircraft.

If that is, in fact, what happened, I would say it was very unprofessional for a pilot to be socializing, blocking the aisle for people that need to use the lav.

If its not, then, it was at least rude to the other pilot because the other pilot had to wear an uncomfortable mask while he was away.
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SkyHog said:
If that is, in fact, what happened, I would say it was very unprofessional for a pilot to be socializing, blocking the aisle for people that need to use the lav.
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Why?

First you and I have no idea if the pilot was socializing or discussing some business related issues. But does it really matter? I think not. I think the flight crews should be working together and taking a few minutes of a flight to reset their attitudes is not an issue. It is a duty to make sure that you are not all tensed up all the time. If the airlines wanted pilot's to be locked up and away from the pax then it should reconfigure the cockpits with amenities for the flight crew, just like El Al.
 
Oh the horror. People had to walk all the way to the back of the airplane. Think of the children!
 
steingar said:
Oh the horror. People had to walk all the way to the back of the airplane. Think of the children!
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Now, be fair: the FOP (Front Of Plane) people cannot be expected to swap molecules with the Steerage Class, Wal-Mart shopping underclass behind the Golden Curtain.
 
The regulation (91.105) is pretty clear -- unless the conversation with the flight attendant was directly related to the operation of the aircraft, the pilot was required to return to the cockpit and strap back in immediately upon completion of the physiological necessity. Hence, it's not an issue of rudeness, it's an issue of a deliberate regulatory violation, and that's pretty unprofessional.

BTW, 121.543 says pretty much the same:
Section 121.543: Flight crewmembers at controls.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, each required flight crewmember on flight deck duty must remain at the assigned duty station with seat belt fastened while the aircraft is taking off or landing, and while it is en route.
(b) A required flight crewmember may leave the assigned duty station—
(1) If the crewmember's absence is necessary for the performance of duties in connection with the operation of the aircraft;
(2) If the crewmember's absence is in connection with physiological needs; or
(3) If the crewmember is taking a rest period, and relief is provided—
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Nick, based on your comment, any socializing at work would be unacceptable. If that's the case, then we should all be fired.

I wish that the pilots were allowed and encouraged to socialize with people again. 10 years ago I went to South Africa. This was 1999, so you were still allowed to socialize with pilots. We were somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean, and asked if we could go up and visit with the pilots for a bit. No problem! Went right up, got to see the cockpit of the 747 (none of which made any sense to me whatsoever at the time) and chat for a bit. They appreciated the change from their normal boredom, we thought it was cool.

I see no problem with this sort of behavior, I wish things were still that way. That's how it should be.
 
SCCutler said:
Now, be fair: the FOP (Front Of Plane) people cannot be expected to swap molecules with the Steerage Class, Wal-Mart shopping underclass behind the Golden Curtain.
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continental1.JPG

continental2.JPG



Trapper John
 
Ron Levy said:
The regulation (91.105) is pretty clear -- unless the conversation with the flight attendant was directly related to the operation of the aircraft, the pilot was required to return to the cockpit and strap back in immediately upon completion of the physiological necessity. Hence, it's not an issue of rudeness, it's an issue of a deliberate regulatory violation, and that's pretty unprofessional.

BTW, 121.543 says pretty much the same:
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And just how do you know the conversation with the FA wasn't in relation to the operation of the aircraft?

And define "physiological necessity". It's been long accepted that part of that can be getting up and stretching legs and walking around. Perhaps the pilot felt to satisfy his "physiological necessity" he needed to stand up and get out of the cockpit for a few minutes to clear his head.

All of this is perfectly legal.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
And just how do you know the conversation with the FA wasn't in relation to the operation of the aircraft?

And define "physiological necessity". It's been long accepted that part of that can be getting up and stretching legs and walking around. Perhaps the pilot felt to satisfy his "physiological necessity" he needed to stand up and get out of the cockpit for a few minutes to clear his head.

All of this is perfectly legal.
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Thank You. I was going to post essentially the same thing.
 
While true, perhaps, in these cases, the airline should be reasonable and not block the entire front of the aircraft from the evil passengers.

Again, all hypothetical, as it could have gone down completely different from the other thread. Maybe the pilot was asking the FA for a soda or something, and was there for like 30 seconds. Maybe it never happened.

But if it did, as the OP wrote it, then I'd say something has to give. I'm pretty sure there is no FAR that says drink carts have to block the front of the aircraft when the pilot leaves the cockpit.
 
SkyHog said:
But if it did, as the OP wrote it, then I'd say something has to give. I'm pretty sure there is no FAR that says drink carts have to block the front of the aircraft when the pilot leaves the cockpit.
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Maybe not. But it is placed there to try to prevent another 9/11 type breach of the cockpit while the door is being opened when the crew transfer takes place. Like a lot of things post 9/11, it is supposed to be a safety thing.

If I had anything to do with it, there wouldn't be a new plane designed, or an older plane retrofitted that had any sort of passenger access near the cockpit door. Put the lav somewhere else.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
And just how do you know the conversation with the FA wasn't in relation to the operation of the aircraft?
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As I said, "...unless the conversation with the flight attendant was directly related to the operation of the aircraft..." I wasn't there, and the OP didn't say, so I qualified the statement appropriately.

And define "physiological necessity". It's been long accepted that part of that can be getting up and stretching legs and walking around. Perhaps the pilot felt to satisfy his "physiological necessity" he needed to stand up and get out of the cockpit for a few minutes to clear his head.
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For 20 minutes, according to the OP. That's a lot of head-clearing, and also, according to the OP, he wasn't "walking around."
 
Ron Levy said:
As I said, "...unless the conversation with the flight attendant was directly related to the operation of the aircraft..." I wasn't there, and the OP didn't say, so I qualified the statement appropriately.

For 20 minutes, according to the OP. That's a lot of head-clearing, and also, according to the OP, he wasn't "walking around."
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Don't need to walk to stretch your legs. But it's hard to sitting down.
 
Ron Levy said:
For 20 minutes, according to the OP. That's a lot of head-clearing, and also, according to the OP, he wasn't "walking around."
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And that is taking the OP's word that it WAS about 20 minutes.

I would like to know what type airplane this was.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
And that is taking the OP's word that it WAS about 20 minutes.
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Yup -- only one subjective side of the story has been told. One can only comment based on the stated situation, with the stipulation that the comment is only as accurate as the story being told. But if it was 20 minutes, I don't see much 91.105-valid reason for it happening unless there's a lot more to the story than told, and from a customer relations perspective, if I were paying those staggering 1st class prices to ride that jet, I would definitely feel abused by the situation as stated.
 
Then again, the OP was a bit of a tool, so I don't know how certain I would be about that 20 minute number either.
 
steingar said:
Then again, the OP was a bit of a tool, so I don't know how certain I would be about that 20 minute number either.
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I think he was only being a tool because of the responses he was receiving. He was asking an honest question, and instead of embracing a non-pilot member, we turned him away.

Guess what happens next time someone debates something aviation with him? It ain't good for us, that's for sure.
 
Was the guy even one of the pilots? Or was he just flying along jumpseat? This is a pretty silly discussion to have when the details are grey at best.
 
Question for the 121 drivers -- if the pilot was riding jump seat, not actual crew for the flight, does the area sanitization procedure still apply when he's out of the cockpit?
 
How do you know it was first class? A number of aircraft don't have first class, they're all coach.
 
Are pilots subject to the same afflictions that passengers are warned about? Deep-vein thrombosis (or whatever it is) seems to be a hot topic these days, as well as other "sit too long and pay the price" disorders.

It's possible that some crew member went overboard on the stretching excercise, but my experience has been that they are very considerate of passengers. I didn't see the first thread, but would like to hear both sides of the story before forming an opinion.
 
Ron Levy said:
Question for the 121 drivers -- if the pilot was riding jump seat, not actual crew for the flight, does the area sanitization procedure still apply when he's out of the cockpit?
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The procedure applies anytime the cockpit door is opened in flight for any reason. Once the door is closed, I suppose you could return the area to normal ops, but then you would just have to secure it again when the pilot came out of the lav to reenter the cockpit.
 
maddog52 said:
The procedure applies anytime the cockpit door is opened in flight for any reason. Once the door is closed, I suppose you could return the area to normal ops, but then you would just have to secure it again when the pilot came out of the lav to reenter the cockpit.
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How about if the pilot stands around outside the lav for 20 minutes talking with the flight attendant?
 
Ron Levy said:
I believe the OP said something about going past a barrier to reach the aft head. That suggests 1st class.
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Not really. I looked over his posts and he makes no reference to being in 1st class nor a barrier that I can find. There are a lot of aircraft out there now that are coach all the way to the front. I know I sadly get stuck on them when I fly to Florida.
 
Ron Levy said:
Yup -- only one subjective side of the story has been told. One can only comment based on the stated situation, with the stipulation that the comment is only as accurate as the story being told. But if it was 20 minutes, I don't see much 91.105-valid reason for it happening unless there's a lot more to the story than told, and from a customer relations perspective, if I were paying those staggering 1st class prices to ride that jet, I would definitely feel abused by the situation as stated.
Click to expand...

That's because you have never flown a jet as a crewmember under airline operations, therefor you have no idea as to what you are talking about. Kinda like sitting in the stands at a baseball game and trying to second guess the players.
 
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