United Embraer off runway in ME

I think the insurance company now owns it. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
gsengle said:
There was no need to get defensive about it. But it is an important point. It was not United Airlines. It was Commutair operating for United. Anyone in the airline business understands that these are two separate entities, with two separate FAA operating certificates. So to discuss *as a group of pilots*, it kinda matters...

If you don’t understand why that matters a healthy response is to ask why, not to behave as some have here...


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I understand the situation completely. My point is that United management does not get a pass because it is commute air. Commute air exists because of United. They do everything they do to make United happy. United dictates how commute air operates.

Commute air plows one in then United should be riding the blame wagon too.

I think it matters here because the most likely outcome is going to be pilot error. And not because the investigators are lazy. It will most likely be the type of pilot error that has a much higher probability of occurring at places like commute air. Not places like United. The folks riding in the back of that jet are exposed to a higher level of risk for the sole purpose of United having a higher profit margin.

@gsengle you are the one that doesnt get it. What I’m talking about is going right over your head and you are mumbling about how they can’t have your red stapler.
 
Back to the topic at hand,

"An official said the pilot aborted the first landing attempt and requested that the runway lights be turned on due to low visibility before the second attempt at 11:30 a.m. Monday. The 50-seat Embraer 145 came to a rest on the east side of the runway."​


03/028 - RWY 01 FICON 3/3/3 100 PCT 1/4IN DRY SN OBS AT 1903041410. 04 MAR 14:10 2019
UNTIL 05 MAR 14:10 2019. CREATED: 04 MAR 14:10 2019
 
Larry in TN said:
So, does Amazon ride the "blame wagon" on the recent Atlas crash near Houston?
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Generally people don’t seem to care too much about cargo accidents since they usually don’t involve a lot of people. People will never ride on Prime Air. People ride on United.
 
I think we can all agree, it’s a shame to see this happen to a low wing.


I will say this.....if that plane was full of babies and fluffy kittens and they all died and they found out the pilot was drunk, whose stock would plummet? Ok maybe not a fair question, Commutair would prob be out of business.
 
lancie00 said:
I think the insurance company now owns it. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Probably self insured. By United......




From the articles on commutairs site, United gave them the planes and the capital to take them from the graveyard and put them through the compliance process. All the heavy maintenance is outsourced under 'power by the hour' and 'per lannding' fees through AAR. As UA already bears all other business risk in this operation, they may fly them 'liability only'. Commutair gets another refurbished 145 every month, their limitation is the hiring and training of crews (and keeping them before they 'flow through' to the main airline).
 
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Tarheelpilot said:
Not in my opinion. What do you think?
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Why do you the Amazon/Atlas relationship differently than the United/Commutair relationship?

Amazon and United are the customers. Atlas and Commutair are the service providers. In both cases, the customer determines the type aircraft, routes, and schedules while the service providers have operational control of the flights, maintenance, and crew training.
 
In addition, the paint job is not exactly the same....
upload_2019-3-5_20-26-5.jpeg
 
Larry in TN said:
Why do you the Amazon/Atlas relationship differently than the United/Commutair relationship?

Amazon and United are the customers. Atlas and Commutair are the service providers. In both cases, the customer determines the type aircraft, routes, and schedules while the service providers have operational control of the flights, maintenance, and crew training.
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I guess it comes down to the fact that I don’t ride around in a box.
 
No one. Not one single person who read that article would not know the flight was operated by Commutair. But very few people care.
 
Any of you get anything deliver via FedEx Ground? No you don't, the drivers are independent contractors.
 
After this enlightening discussion,is it going to effect ,whether you fly united airlines or not?
 
EdFred said:
Any of you get anything deliver via FedEx Ground? No you don't, the drivers are independent contractors.
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As is FedEx Critical. The Express stuff is mostly in house as is the LTL (FedexFreight was formed out of a few trucking company acquisitions.

It wasn't that long ago that UPS contracted out all their air service even when the planes were painted brown.
 
Eric Stoltz said:
Still "owned" by Wells Fargo, and mortgaged to the trustee, not wholly owned in its total capacity, but as lessor and lessee... or whatever nonsense that means. Does that mean UAL? I just remember it was near the cockpit door and it drove me nuts because I didn't understand any of it!

I wish the pilots of that flight a quick and uneventful ASAP experience.
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It likely won't be an ASAP-only experience unfortunately.
They didn't just "slide off" the runway. They didn't land on it in the first place. They completely missed it.
This could have ended very, very badly.
 
mtuomi said:
It likely won't be an ASAP-only experience unfortunately.
They didn't just "slide off" the runway. They didn't land on it in the first place. They completely missed it.
This could have ended very, very badly.
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It's classified as an accident, like a NASA report accidents are not asap-able. Unfortunately it will probably not end well for those pilots.
 
unsafervguy said:
It's classified as an accident, like a NASA report accidents are not asap-able. Unfortunately it will probably not end well for those pilots.
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With 3/4SM visibility and 100% dry snow covered runway, it's a challenging landing, but you'd expect that with a runway that has ILS, they would be at least within 100 feet of it.
 
mtuomi said:
With 3/4SM visibility and 100% dry snow covered runway, it's a challenging landing, but you'd expect that with a runway that has ILS, they would be at least within 100 feet of it.
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I'm not going to Monday morning quarterback it, but there are going to be a lot of meetings with a lot of lawyers in attendance in the crews future. Not a good way to start your career.
 
unsafervguy said:
I'm not going to Monday morning quarterback it, but there are going to be a lot of meetings with a lot of lawyers in attendance in the crews future. Not a good way to start your career.
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Yeah I'll wait for the official results too. I'd say it's pretty sure they will never fly 121 again, and that they were lucky no-one got killed. They weren't even close.
 
frfly172 said:
After this enlightening discussion,is it going to effect ,whether you fly united airlines or not?
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I avoid them like the plague already. They are awful.
 
weilke said:
From the articles on commutairs site, United gave them the planes and the capital to take them from the graveyard and put them through the compliance process. All the heavy maintenance is outsourced under 'power by the hour' and 'per lannding' fees through AAR. As UA already bears all other business risk in this operation, they may fly them 'liability only'. Commutair gets another refurbished 145 every month, their limitation is the hiring and training of crews (and keeping them before they 'flow through' to the main airline).
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145XR's were never in the "graveyard" they were transferred over from ExpressJet who had them since they were factory new (as Continental Express back then). It's not like they're scraping off the dust and cobwebs from the desert on those things.
 
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