United Embraer off runway in ME

flyingron said:
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no....Otto wouldn't have done dat. ;)
 
It should have been a United flight......flown by United pilots and FA's, maintained by United mechanics, owned by United shareholders.

But I am biased.

Interesting fact: I have 139.8 hours in that airframe.
 
Eric Stoltz said:
It should have been a United flight......flown by United pilots and FA's, maintained by United mechanics, owned by United shareholders.

But I am biased.

Interesting fact: I have 139.8 hours in that airframe.
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The plane probably was in fact owned by UAL.
 
The good news is that there are so many of those 145s idling that this one can be scrapped without anyone losing sleep over it.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
The plane probably was in fact owned by UAL.
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Still "owned" by Wells Fargo, and mortgaged to the trustee, not wholly owned in its total capacity, but as lessor and lessee... or whatever nonsense that means. Does that mean UAL? I just remember it was near the cockpit door and it drove me nuts because I didn't understand any of it!

I wish the pilots of that flight a quick and uneventful ASAP experience.
 
Eric Stoltz said:
Still "owned" by Wells Fargo, and mortgaged to the trustee, not wholly owned in its total capacity, but as lessor and lessee... or whatever nonsense that means. Does that mean UAL? I just remember it was near the cockpit door and it drove me nuts because I didn't understand any of it!

I wish the pilots of that flight a quick and uneventful ASAP experience.
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No. As far as I know, Wells Fargo owns it and leases it to either UAL or Commute Air.
 
gsengle said:
And you know this how??? Who has operational control? Who does the training? Who flies the planes? You’ve no clue.

Ticket said “Operated by Commutair”
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Purchased on United's website. Checked in at a United ticket counter. Eligible for United FF miles.

And most McDonald's restaurants are owned by franchisees.
 
Lindberg said:
Purchased on United's website. Checked in at a United ticket counter. Eligible for United FF miles.

And most McDonald's restaurants are owned by franchisees.
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Ticket says operated by commutair....


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gsengle said:
Ticket says operated by commutair....
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Your McDonald's receipt says, "This location independently owned and operated by Jimmy's Restaurants LLC." And where will you tell anyone who asks where you went to lunch?
 
gsengle said:
And you know this how??? Who has operational control? Who does the training? Who flies the planes? You’ve no clue.

Ticket said “Operated by Commutair"
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Who sells the tickets? Who sets the prices? Who sets the schedule? Who does the advertising?

That's right, Momma Mainline.

Dude, calm down and quit being so damn defensive. Regional airlines today are not true airlines, they are contract lift providers. Fact.
 
jbDC9 said:
Who sells the tickets? Who sets the prices? Who sets the schedule? Who does the advertising?

That's right, Momma Mainline.

Dude, calm down and quit being so damn defensive. Regional airlines today are not true airlines, they are contract lift providers. Fact.
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I could be reading this thread wrong, but it appears there are there are a few of you that agree, but don’t realize it.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Whatever that is.
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Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance and Insurance. Basically one airline doesn't have the planes or crew for a route or routes and contracts out to another company to run the routes, and the first airline sells the tickets.

Cargo brokers do this a lot. Get the contract to haul freight then negotiate with a flight company to provide everything.
 
It’s like this on POA when the WX sux for flying. It’s like a de facto Sigmet for most of the conti US.

United sux. Continental was great. Derail this MFers.
 
Lindberg said:
Purchased on United's website. Checked in at a United ticket counter. Eligible for United FF miles.
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I once had a United ticket that included...

Two flights on United Express (each operated by a different airline),
One flight on United, and
Three flights on Lufthansa

Zeldman said:
Could this have been an ACMI type of flight.??
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ACMI is Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, and Insurance. A third party hires an ACMI airline to provide those four things. DHL and Amazon hire ACMI airlines to move their freight. Happens a lot in the cargo world. Atlas/Polar, ABX Air, Air Transport Int'l, Kalitta, Omni, etc. are US ACMI carriers.

The United Express carriers are FFD airlines--Fee For Departure. Here's a description of FFD from a Wikipedia page on regional airlines:

"Regional jets are operated in the USA under a fee-per-departure payment structure. In this payment structure, a traditional airline contracts with a regional airline company on a per departure or per flight basis regardless of the number of passengers or the length of the flight. The traditional airline gets to keep all the revenue from the ticket sale and only pays the regional partner the agreed to amount. These contracts tend to be long term agreements, typically 10 year terms. The regional airline partner can then be relatively sure of the revenue side and only has to control cost in order to earn a modest return. However, these "regional airlines," now really "small jet providers" of contracted aircraft, have been squeezed by U.S. airline bankruptcies, fleet reductions and increasing operating costs. U.S. Legacy carriers have no longer been willing to shoulder burdensome losses from guaranteed-profit contracts with their small jet providers, and accordingly have played carrier against carrier in a low-bid game that has left hundreds of RJs idle and others potentially on their way to being laid up."​
 
gsengle said:
Ticket says operated by commutair....


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jbDC9 said:
Who sells the tickets? Who sets the prices? Who sets the schedule? Who does the advertising?

That's right, Momma Mainline.

Dude, calm down and quit being so damn defensive. Regional airlines today are not true airlines, they are contract lift providers. Fact.
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This.

I’m still not understanding why the point was even brought up, much less the need to get so defensive over it. Whether it was a main line UAL flight or one of their codeshare partners, what difference does it make in the accident situation? That’s right...none at all!
 
Ryanb said:
This.

I’m still not understanding why the point was even brought up, much less the need to get so defensive over it.
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There was no need to get defensive about it. But it is an important point. It was not United Airlines. It was Commutair operating for United. Anyone in the airline business understands that these are two separate entities, with two separate FAA operating certificates. So to discuss *as a group of pilots*, it kinda matters...

If you don’t understand why that matters a healthy response is to ask why, not to behave as some have here...


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This might be a record for number of POA replies posted before actually addressing the original subject matter. Usually there's at least a page of related discussion before it goes off the rails. Bravo!
 
gsengle said:
There was no need to get defensive about it. But it is an important point. It was not United Airlines. It was Commutair operating for United. Anyone in the airline business understands that these are two separate entities, with two separate FAA operating certificates. So to discuss *as a group of pilots*, it kinda matters...
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I understand that completely, and I’m not arguing that fact. Most of us here understand how codeshare agreements work. The point is, that doesn’t change the situation at all. United will be the underlying brand to take the hit, not Commutair.
 
Ryanb said:
I understand that completely, and I’m not arguing that fact. Most of us here understand how codeshare agreements work. The point is, that doesn’t change the situation at all. United will be the underlying brand to take the hit, not Commutair.
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It’s not codeshare. It’s a regional. Most members of the public including evidently this group have little to no idea just how completely separate the regionals are generally from the brand they are flying for. They range from wholly owned to actually flying flights for competitor majors as well. Some own the planes some don’t. But their maintenance, pilot group, training and all the rest is entirely separate. Tickets even say who it is.

Will the public associate this with United? Of course.

But if someone says JFK killed someone at Chappaquiddick, someone might correct em. And they should!


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gsengle said:
It’s not codeshare. It’s a regional. Most members of the public including evidently this group have little to no idea just how completely separate the regionals are generally from the brand they are flying for. They range from wholly owned to actually flying flights for competitor majors as well. Some own the planes some don’t. But their maintenance, pilot group, training and all the rest is entirely separate. Tickets even say who it is.

Will the public associate this with United? Of course.

But if someone says JFK killed someone at Chappaquiddick, someone might correct em. And they should!


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I think most everyone here understands that.

But I also think most everyone here understands that if United didn’t want their name associated with that airplane, they wouldn’t have allowed it to be painted on the side.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I think most everyone here understands that.

But I also think most everyone here understands that if United didn’t want their name associated with that airplane, they wouldn’t have allowed it to be painted on the side.
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Is this a discussion about marketing damage, or about an accident?

Also sounds like you’re already assuming wrongdoing? Why wouldn’t they want to “associate”? What are you alleging?

The reason regionals exist is in large part the union groups at the majors defend scope clauses in their CBAs.

The use of “codeshare” shows a lack of understanding as well...

A regional is a separate airline, according to the FAA.

I’m clueless as to why a group of pilots is arguing a verifiable fact.

Then again, 2018 zzz


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gsengle said:
It’s not codeshare. It’s a regional. Most members of the public including evidently this group have little to no idea just how completely separate the regionals are generally from the brand they are flying for. They range from wholly owned to actually flying flights for competitor majors as well. Some own the planes some don’t. But their maintenance, pilot group, training and all the rest is entirely separate. Tickets even say who it is.

Will the public associate this with United? Of course.

But if someone says JFK killed someone at Chappaquiddick, someone might correct em. And they should!


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It's a codeshare. And it's also a regional.
 
Anymouse said:
It's a codeshare. And it's also a regional.
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He said it with the implication that codeshare told the story. Not the same as say an Air France codeshare with say Delta.

So there are two flight numbers for regional flights?


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gsengle said:
Is this a discussion about marketing damage, or about an accident?
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You tell us. You’re the one who brought up the whole idea that it’s ‘Commutair not United’.
 
Ryanb said:
You tell us. You’re the one who brought up the whole idea that it’s ‘Commutair not United’.
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Yep and that is true. It’s Commutair not United.


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gsengle said:
Is this a discussion about marketing damage, or about an accident?

Also sounds like you’re already assuming wrongdoing? Why wouldn’t they want to “associate”? What are you alleging?

The reason regionals exist is in large part the union groups at the majors defend scope clauses in their CBAs.

The use of “codeshare” shows a lack of understanding as well...

A regional is a separate airline, according to the FAA.

I’m clueless as to why a group of pilots is arguing a verifiable fact.

Then again, 2018 zzz


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Im not implying anything. You seem to be saying that the word “United” is not appropriate to this discussion. Is that not correct?

I’m simply saying that, since the word “United” is painted on the side of the airplane (a verifiable fact) at the express consent of United (another verifiable fact), that it’s an appropriate word to use.
 
The more 145's taken out of service, the better! I can't stand flying in those sardine cans....
 
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