As I found out the hard way, Lufthansa, one of Uniteds partners does charge extra for an assigned seat. You can select whatever seats you want during the purchase process, doesn't mean they wont scatter your party across middle seats throughout the plane upon checkin. Ironically, if you fly the same LH flight on a United ticket number, you do have assigned seats.
United Airlines customer service
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As I found out the hard way, Lufthansa, one of Uniteds partners does charge extra for an assigned seat. You can select whatever seats you want during the purchase process, doesn't mean they wont scatter your party across middle seats throughout the plane upon checkin. Ironically, if you fly the same LH flight on a United ticket number, you do have assigned seats.
That must be it. I just saw an article that quotes him as saying "I’m being selected because I’m Chinese."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...a-think-so/?tid=pm_pop&utm_term=.66090bb4861b
RJM62
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Geek on the Hill
If it's any consolation, United also bumps first-class passengers (and wealthy ones at that). They just use handcuffs rather than the drag-and-drop method.
http://www.latimes.com/business/laz...ed-low-priority-passenger-20170412-story.html
Rich
http://www.latimes.com/business/laz...ed-low-priority-passenger-20170412-story.html
Rich
ifly4fun
Line Up and Wait
Then don't forget Subway needs to offer you 10 more free sandwiches too for the inconvenience. I'd happily take my ten and goto panera.
ifly4fun
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I think the point is that they can force you to leave, sure. However, if you have a contract you can then take that up civily. But for the the immediate issue, if the owner says leave, you leave. Then you sue.
orange
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I thought the same thing, but after thinking about it I realized it's not as simple as just not overbooking.
Yes, you can stop overbooking. And if a person no shows, then they lose their ticket. But what if a person changes their flight to the next day. So now, day 1, empty seat flies, and day 2, a seat that could have been revenue generating is now non-revenue. Ok, so there would be some change fee that would apply to partially offset the loss, but not wholly.
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Greg Bockelman
Well, it doesn't quite work that way. If that person wants to change days, there has to be a seat to sell on the next day's flight. If there isn't a seat available, he has to go as originally scheduled.
If neither flight is over sold, it is just changing one seat for another. There may (will?) be a change fee involved but the net result is neutral.
If the flight the next day is over sold, but not to the point where a ticket could not be sold, then there is a possibility of bumping passengers on the next day's flight. But again, that goes back to the statistical analysis that is done to allow over selling in the first place. Yes, there is a chance someone could get bumped. This sort of thing happens every day at all the airlines.
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Greg Bockelman
I don't see how you can say it is double dipping. They only get one fare for each seat. You cannot physically put two people in the same seat at the same time. Yes, two people paid the fare, and each one will get a seat, but not necessarily on the same flight.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...b2a45e3dc84_story.html?utm_term=.22e0e87a90e1
Excerpt:
Excerpt:
The video of a bloodied Asian passenger being forcibly pulled from a United Airlines flight sent the company’s stock tumbling Tuesday, prompted calls for the chief executive to step down and sparked a viral campaign in China to boycott the company.
But will the damage last? History suggests it may well not.
As deeply troubling as the video is, analysts said, the emotional fury such incidents generate usually is fleeting, lasting a few days or weeks at most. The reality, they say, is that consumers have long put price, convenience and personal taste ahead of outrage.
But will the damage last? History suggests it may well not.
As deeply troubling as the video is, analysts said, the emotional fury such incidents generate usually is fleeting, lasting a few days or weeks at most. The reality, they say, is that consumers have long put price, convenience and personal taste ahead of outrage.
ifly4fun
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They get 2 fares for 1 seat if person #2 never shows, for any flight. Had they not oversold, they would have only received 1 fare and flown an empty seat.
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SoonerAviator
That pretty much never happens that person #2 never shows for any flight they've paid for. If they end up cancelling, the airline gets to keep most of the money or gives the customer a ticket "credit" on their account, but it's not like people are buying $500+ tickets and then just never using them on any flight.
Tantalum
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San_Diego_Pilot
Always thought Seaworld was a weird venture. At least at San Diego Zoo and Wild Animal Park most animals have wide open pens and a lot of conservation and educational work is done for them
Seaworld just seemed kind of sad to have these large animals constrained in small pens doing tricks all day... was very circus like in that aspect
Considering United's history of customer service and PR disasters, I'm surprised they didn't smash a Taylor guitar over the guy's head.
Whether the airline had the legal right to do what they did is really beside the point. The real problem is the disdain they show for their paying customers and this is why there is so much loathing of the airlines. Customers pay what are perceived as high fares and fees, pay baggage fees, get stuffed into a sardine can, fed a tiny bag of peanuts instead of a meal, etc., etc. It's no wonder when told to surrender his seat to an airline employee, the customer's reaction is "Go to hell!"
United will settle this. If a lawsuit goes to trial and the judge or jury has ever flown commercial, United will get reamed.
Airlines service customers the way a bull services cows.
Whether the airline had the legal right to do what they did is really beside the point. The real problem is the disdain they show for their paying customers and this is why there is so much loathing of the airlines. Customers pay what are perceived as high fares and fees, pay baggage fees, get stuffed into a sardine can, fed a tiny bag of peanuts instead of a meal, etc., etc. It's no wonder when told to surrender his seat to an airline employee, the customer's reaction is "Go to hell!"
United will settle this. If a lawsuit goes to trial and the judge or jury has ever flown commercial, United will get reamed.
Airlines service customers the way a bull services cows.
ifly4fun
Line Up and Wait
So customer #2 buys a full price refundable ticket, and never shows, gets a refund. Had they not oversold, they lost the fare.
If it wasn't profitable to overbook, they wouldn't do it. plane and simple.
JOhnH
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I completely understand the reason for "overbooking". Empty seats are like a veterinarian sitting in his office not making any money while paying staff because a couple of appointments "no-showed".
But, why can't they tell people "sorry, this flight is sold out, but we will sell you a ticket for a lesser amount with the chance you will be bumped, and "re-accommodated"".
Or, if the airlines don't want to do that, then they just need to pony up a little better incentive to find volunteers instead of random victims.
But, why can't they tell people "sorry, this flight is sold out, but we will sell you a ticket for a lesser amount with the chance you will be bumped, and "re-accommodated"".
Or, if the airlines don't want to do that, then they just need to pony up a little better incentive to find volunteers instead of random victims.
Clark1961
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Not to invoke thread drift but I have been told by a farmer that cows can be very gentle animals. Of course I have very little first hand knowledge of this claimed gentle behavior. Mostly I encountered defensive aggression except when delivering hay. YMWV
Fearless Tower
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Cows are generally pretty gentle. Bulls...not so much.
Captain
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Partially offset the loss? You want two seats for one ticket plus a fee. The fee would need to be full fare in your senario.
No, because there will always be people willing to fly standby for a lower fare. One of the standby people takes the otherwise empty seat, so the fee is only the delta between full fare and standby fare.
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SoonerAviator
Lol, well no ****. The point is, they don't get double-revenue for doing it. They only got paid once, by whoever actually went on the flight. Passenger #2 with his refundable fair got his money back. So, they don't get to "double dip", they simply were able to have 100% utilization of all seats on the aircraft.
Larry in TN
En-Route
That's not how it typically happens.
No shows are people who miss a flight or misconnect and end up on a later flight. There are also people who show up early and do same-day-standby on an earlier flight. That isn't technically a no-show as the reservation is moved to the earlier flight when he clears onto it but it has the same effect as it is unlikely that their seat will be resold in the couple hours between the change and the original flight.
There are some situations where someone no-shows and the fare is abandoned but those are the exceptions.
JOhnH
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I don't believe I have ever bought a "refundable fare" ticket. When I book a flight, I am pretty damn sure I want to be on that flight. So if I get bumped, do I get a refund? Do I get an upgrade on the next available flight? If I have to lay over a full night, will I get put up in a decent hotel and fed a decent meal?
Captain
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If you are bumped you get either your money back or a new flight. If the new flight is tomorrow then you get a hotel.
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SoonerAviator
I'm sure most people don't buy the refundable fair. It costs significantly more than the regular ticket in order to pay for the ability to re-schedule or cancel without penalty. As far as being "bumped", yes, you will be compensated in some fashion. How much is dependent on when the next flight is, that particular airlines' policies, and how well you negotiate.
ElPaso Pilot
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Well, CEO Munoz very clearly articulated who he was going to side with today, and it wasn't with the crew,the ASOs, or many of the posters here.
He addressed most of the arguments on this thread, nearly word for word.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...ragged-passenger-0412-biz-20170412-story.html
He addressed most of the arguments on this thread, nearly word for word.
[Munoz] felt "shame" when watching viral videos of Dao being dragged down the plane's aisle... "This will never happen again on a United Airlines flight"...
Munoz also said he doesn't think Dao was at fault in the incident. "He was a paying passenger sitting in our aircraft. No one should be treated that way"
Munoz also said United already has decided it will no longer call on law enforcement to remove passengers from oversold flights once on board.
"To remove a booked, paid, seating passenger, we can't do that"
Munoz said the airline needs to give its employees more latitude to be flexible in trying to resolve situations like the one on the Sunday flight without resorting to calling in law enforcement.
... once passengers are in their seats, "that incentive program needs to change," Munoz said. "We need to expand and adjust those policies to allow common sense."
Munoz also said he doesn't think Dao was at fault in the incident. "He was a paying passenger sitting in our aircraft. No one should be treated that way"
Munoz also said United already has decided it will no longer call on law enforcement to remove passengers from oversold flights once on board.
"To remove a booked, paid, seating passenger, we can't do that"
Munoz said the airline needs to give its employees more latitude to be flexible in trying to resolve situations like the one on the Sunday flight without resorting to calling in law enforcement.
... once passengers are in their seats, "that incentive program needs to change," Munoz said. "We need to expand and adjust those policies to allow common sense."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...ragged-passenger-0412-biz-20170412-story.html
sourdough44
En-Route
UAL has E-170's on the property??I know, it's all in the paint job.
JOhnH
Touchdown! Greaser!
I read that early this morning and have been waiting for someone else to post it. After our banter last night, I didn't want to be too blatant with the "I told you so's".
I am glad he finally came to his senses, even if it had to be beaten into him.
I am glad he finally came to his senses, even if it had to be beaten into him.
You think this mea culpa would have happened without the dip in stock price?
SToL
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Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:
This guy had all ready boarded and was seated in his assigned seat.
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When there's a plane crash or incident of that nature, I'd normally make the distinction because typically you're most interested in what happened on the flight deck, and from that standpoint you're dealing with two different airlines. But in this case we're talking about policies and procedures from the personnel on the airport side, and that should mostly be the same, if not identical.
JOhnH
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Yes. The dip in stock price was negligible. Of course, even a small number multiplied by 315 million will be a big number, but stocks go up and down more than that for a lot of reasons.
But I do think he acknowledged that if he didn't do something, there would have been a much bigger drop in the future.
When the doctor said he had patients to see they should have picked someone else. And as others have said this wasn't overbooked. They needed seats for aircrew. Not handled well in my amateur opinion. Quite a few videos floating around. Knocked unconscious and bloodied. I know they were security and not airline employees but he was seated on a United contract plane.
Y'know, if United (or any other airline) is serious about fixing this kind of stuff, their management needs to experience what their customers do. I'd suggest a policy whereby once a week, some member of executive management or the BoD has to take a random flight, round trip, in coach class, with a carry-on and checked luggage, being as incognito as security allows.
1) Management would get a picture of what their customers experience, and
2) Line personnel would step up their game, knowing a big cheese might be on their flight.
After a few instances of lost or damaged luggage, or being bumped off a flight, stuffed onto a bus, and sent to spend the night in a cheap hotel, management might (MIGHT) start to get it.
1) Management would get a picture of what their customers experience, and
2) Line personnel would step up their game, knowing a big cheese might be on their flight.
After a few instances of lost or damaged luggage, or being bumped off a flight, stuffed onto a bus, and sent to spend the night in a cheap hotel, management might (MIGHT) start to get it.
Why? What makes his profession important than others? I agree this was not handled well
hindsight2020
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They know the conditions of their coach flights. They don't care. It's all units and bottom line to them. Look at DUI Dougie (AA) and his track record at USAir. Regional contract stooges. When things flare up, they have to react politically, but they still hedge their bets that most of the time the denizens board and suffer through steerage class obediently as we're conditioned to, judging by calls to authority in many of the responses to this event.
The problem for legacies like United, is that having to deal with these domestic riff raff flights hurts their intl marquee. Spirit, Allegiant and Southwest don't have that opportunity cost by comparison. Add a sense of anti-Asian racism (legitimate or perceived) in their Pacific market, and a higher quality product offered by ME3 airlines being bankrolled at a loss by oil-rich despots, and you're between a rock and a hard place.
People should just give up the pretenses. The airline travel experience is a drag, and you pay a premium for it. Avoid as much as possible. I say again, most airline pylets privately admit they'd fly boxes if it wasn't for the schedules.
Maybe the patient expecting surgery?
Me thinks they got a call from their guy in China. They're getting beat up in the press worse there.
On my last trip, right before I left I read an article about how the airlines here were whining about Norwegian Air. I thought it was a little odd. When I got there and saw the massive media campaign about United's proposed expansion in China (similar issue with the shoe on the other foot) It struck me as hysterical.
It just got a whole lot harder for United in Asia, especially China, I think. And the international flights are where the big bucks are....
Clark1961
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Have you ever had to deal with a medical condition and a substitute physician? Sometimes it's okay, sometimes it's not so okay. Find some office drone or labor guy and make them whole. Don't disrupt health care when there are other reasonable choices.
Maybe there weren't any other reasonable choices (in the eyes of United). From what I hear, when they kick people off, they do it by who checked in last, who has the least status, who paid the least. The doctor may have just had unfortunate timing.