Unexpected Ramp Fees

T

thito01

Pre-takeoff checklist
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224
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Central Florida
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Tony T
I just wish AirNav had a main item under Airport Services that said:
Airport Landing Fee: Yes|No
FBO Ramp Fee: Yes|No|Some

While I understand these fees are sometimes needed, I just don't like the surprises. And especially the double wammy when I got charged by the FBO for both an airport Landing Fee *and* a Ramp Fee. (Their web site listed their Ramp Fee, but not the additional fee they collected for the airport.)
 
If you arrive without doing your homework...especially regarding landing fees at an airfield...you are subject to surprises.

While I agree it would be nice if there were a more standardized system to research fees across the board, a quick call to the FBO in you flight planning stage and researching what your parking options are would have revealed all the info you were surprised by.
 
thito01 said:
I just wish AirNav had a main item under Airport Services that said:
Airport Landing Fee: Yes|No
FBO Ramp Fee: Yes|No|Some

While I understand these fees are sometimes needed, I just don't like the surprises. And especially the double wammy when I got charged by the FBO for both an airport Landing Fee *and* a Ramp Fee. (Their web site listed their Ramp Fee, but not the additional fee they collected for the airport.)
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So if next week an airport/FBO instituted a fee, how would AirNav know this.
 
AKBill said:
What airport?
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It's been a few years and I really don't remember.
Shawn said:
If you arrive without doing your homework...especially regarding landing fees at an airfield...you are subject to surprises.
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I am not really complaining about the existence of fees, I am complaining about the fact that we can easily see fuel prices on AirNet, but not fees.
(Most of the time, fees are not going to drive me to go to a different airport. The cost for a car rental or additional taxi fees would make it a mute point. And, it's not worth my time to call every FBO that I am visiting to ask for fees.)
Clip4 said:
So if next week an airport/FBO instituted a fee, how would AirNav know this.
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They know about fuel price changes, why can't the same process be used for the basic "if you stop here, you will be charged some fee."
 
The Web site rampfee.me attempts to track that kind of information. (Their Web security certificate apparently expired two days ago, so you will probably get a warning that the site may not be safe.)
 
Best thing is to call and ask the person's name that you talked to. I have been surprised twice this year with increased fees at places we had been to in the last year. Guess I am going to have to start calling before each flight.
 
Shawn said:
If you arrive without doing your homework...especially regarding landing fees at an airfield...you are subject to surprises.

While I agree it would be nice if there were a more standardized system to research fees across the board, a quick call to the FBO in you flight planning stage and researching what your parking options are would have revealed all the info you were surprised by.
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Exactly how do you do this homework? Last time I had this problem I called ahead and asked specifically and the person I talked to told me about some, but left out about $50 of fees.
 
Most of what Airnav lists comes straight from the FAA airport master record. They get a small amount of information from the airports directly and some end-user reviews.
 
I try to email them when I am visiting a new airport. They usually reply. That way I have a hard copy and they can’t say “I’m sorry you misunderstood”
 
thito01 said:
It's been a few years and I really don't remember.

I am not really complaining about the existence of fees, I am complaining about the fact that we can easily see fuel prices on AirNet, but not fees.
(Most of the time, fees are not going to drive me to go to a different airport. The cost for a car rental or additional taxi fees would make it a mute point. And, it's not worth my time to call every FBO that I am visiting to ask for fees.)

They know about fuel price changes, why can't the same process be used for the basic "if you stop here, you will be charged some fee."
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In case you haven’t figured this out, part of your ramp fee paid for the “free” AirNav web page you use. Those nice FBO logos at the bottom of the airport page are advertisements.

If the advertisers wanted their ramp fees posted they could do so - they don’t.
 
Salty said:
Exactly how do you do this homework? Last time I had this problem I called ahead and asked specifically and the person I talked to told me about some, but left out about $50 of fees.
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Garmin Pilot lists the landing and ramp fees for most FBOs. I’m guessing Foreflight does as well. That said, I’m sure some of the information is outdated or plain wrong.
 
When I plan my flights I always read FBO comments in ForeFlight and/or airport websites to determine where I'm parking: transient, FBO, city, county, etc. That is where I find fees and if not and care to know, call the FBO I intend to use (noting name of who I talked to, date and time.)
 
Lemme see if I understand. You rant about ramp fees and not being able to find the info on a third party site. I sort of get that. But the last time you were at an airport that charged said ramp fees was a few years ago and can't even recall the airport? Now I'm curious what prompted the rant.

I find a phone usually clears up surprises.
 
AlleyCat67 said:
Garmin Pilot lists the landing and ramp fees for most FBOs. I’m guessing Foreflight does as well. That said, I’m sure some of the information is outdated or plain wrong.
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It’s frequently wrong. Calling is slightly better, depending on how reliable the person you talk to is.
 
Racerx said:
Lemme see if I understand. You rant about ramp fees and not being able to find the info on a third party site. I sort of get that. But the last time you were at an airport that charged said ramp fees was a few years ago and can't even recall the airport? Now I'm curious what prompted the rant.
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That was an answer to "what specific airport" was I at where I knew the ramp fee (from a call), but they then added a landing fee (for the airport) above the quoted ramp fee.

The original post was a "wish there was a better way to know", not a rant against fees in general.
 
I was under the impression that any airport that receives federal funds cannot charge a LANDING fee for aircraft under 12,500 pounds. I realize that an FBO can charge you to use their facility, but they do not own the runway.
 
Wagondriver said:
I was under the impression that any airport that receives federal funds cannot charge a LANDING fee for aircraft under 12,500 pounds. I realize that an FBO can charge you to use their facility, but they do not own the runway.
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That has not been my experience.
 
It really does feel silly in this age where I can look at the menu & prices for nearly any restaurant in the country in a matter of minutes.

I had an experience yesterday with Indy Regional. I called ahead and asked the fees... csr said &20. Okay that's better than the last review on airnav which said $40.

When I left, the csr (a guy this time, who was hard of hearing) also said $20, then told me that if I bought any amount of fuel they'd waive the fee. Well that was new information, but it was getting dark and we were anxious to get going so I said I'd just pay the fee. Handed him my card and when I looked at the receipt found that no one had mentioned the $10 "facility fee" or the 4% "credit card processing fee" or the 2% tax levied by the airport authority. All in all about $35.

I was in no mood to argue, so we just got going. If I ever go back I'll have to buy some $6 gas and see if I can get away any cheaper. It's hard to make informed decisions when even the people in charge of taking your money can't or won't tell you what it will cost.

I don't begrudge them their fees; I went there assuming it would cost me $40 as it was 2 miles from our destination, and it's nice arriving to nice facilities and good coffee. I too wish there was a reliable way to know, but pilots don't even keep airport restaurant websites up to date, so I don't have much hope for a landing fee website. I think aopa cajoling them into posting it is actually our best hope.

Yesterday would've been a great example of a time public ramp access would've been ideal. We didn't need any services beyond parking, and had family picking us up.

Wagondriver said:
I was under the impression that any airport that receives federal funds cannot charge a LANDING fee for aircraft under 12,500 pounds. I realize that an FBO can charge you to use their facility, but they do not own the runway.
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I don't believe that's the case. ORD requires you to go to Signature to pay the landing fee, which was $70 iirc. Atlantic at MDW similarly collects the landing fee, which I think was around $20. Both of these were in an Archer.
 
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Years ago I went to FFZ (Falcon Field, Mesa, AZ) in the air ambulance. At that time the landing fee was 50 bucks. While waiting on the med crew, I asked the CSR guy on the cheapest way to get out of here.

He told me the FBO had sold and he wasn't sure if he had a job after that day, then he told me he wasn't going to charge me anything.

Sometimes it is how you ask... Or just timing.
 
Palmpilot said:
The Web site rampfee.me attempts to track that kind of information. (Their Web security certificate apparently expired two days ago, so you will probably get a warning that the site may not be safe.)
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Dang, I knew I forgot something I needed to do before heading south for xmas. :D Thanks.
 
AirNav lists telephone numbers. I don’t have surprise fees because I call ahead, especially to the big city airports that most frequently have them. I don’t blame a business for trying to cover their overhead. I do blame pilots who can’t be bothered to pick up a phone and do due diligence.
 
Wagondriver said:
I was under the impression that any airport that receives federal funds cannot charge a LANDING fee for aircraft under 12,500 pounds. I realize that an FBO can charge you to use their facility, but they do not own the runway.
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You understand wrong. Many airports charge landing fees under 12,500. The FBO doesn't charge for the runway, they are collecting it on the behalf of the airport.
 
I flew into opa locka (KOPF) a couple weeks ago. I called ahead. Told me they would waive fees if I bought the minimum amount of gas. Of course not much on their website.
They only waived one of the fees. If the people weren't so kind and helpful I would've pushed back a little but just simply told the person upfront that it was not communicated clearly.
Salty said:
It’s frequently wrong. Calling is slightly better, depending on how reliable the person you talk to is.
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I don't understand why I'm expected to do this much legwork to use a public resource. That's not how if works anywhere else.

Imagine if toll roads didn't have any signs or advanced warning and you just got a bill in the mail weeks later. "Sorry, you should have done your research before you drove on that road that looks like every other road," is what no one would say.

What if you went to the public library, but when you went back to your car, the librarian stopped you and said you have to pay $50 for parking before you leave--despite the lack of any signs, warning, or access controls. No one would tolerate that.

So why do we tolerate it at airports? At the very least, if you're going to charge me to use a public resource, the onus should be on you to inform me of the charge before I incur it.
 
Story told my by my CFI a few months ago. One of his rated students took his aircraft to KLAL and dropped it off in front of one of the KLAL maintenance facilities after hours, as arranged with the A&P. The next morning, the A&P called and asked why he did not drop off the plane because it was not in front of the maintenance facility. They eventually found that the plane had been towed (without authorization) over to the FBO ramp and an overnight parking fee had been assessed. While the maintenance facility resolved the fee issue, it was recommended that I only land at KLAL in an emergency. (I am new to the area and this was during a discussion about KLAL having the nearest ILS to my new airport.)
 
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The best way to avoid landing and ramp fees seems to be to avoid airports with control towers.
 
Lindberg said:
I don't understand why I'm expected to do this much legwork to use a public resource. That's not how if works anywhere else.

Imagine if toll roads didn't have any signs or advanced warning and you just got a bill in the mail weeks later. "Sorry, you should have done your research before you drove on that road that looks like every other road," is what no one would say.

What if you went to the public library, but when you went back to your car, the librarian stopped you and said you have to pay $50 for parking before you leave--despite the lack of any signs, warning, or access controls. No one would tolerate that.

So why do we tolerate it at airports? At the very least, if you're going to charge me to use a public resource, the onus should be on you to inform me of the charge before I incur it.
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An FBO isn’t a public resource. It is a private entity that leases ramp and building space for a govt. entity. There are many such arrangements on airports including hangar and ramp rentals that are totally private and not open to the public.

FBOs are also unique in that they serve as the GA terminal at many airports and serve a security function.

Cities want marble floors and such to make a first impression on the business passenger and require various amenities in the lease. Over $1 million a year leases are not uncommon with that revenue funding the airport. They really could care less what the FBO charges.
 
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Dana said:
The best way to avoid landing and ramp fees seems to be to avoid airports with control towers.
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not always true. If I understand correctly, 5B6 has a landing fee and overnight parking fee. Granted, not a lot of traffic in/out of 5B6.
 
Bob Noel said:
not always true. If I understand correctly, 5B6 has a landing fee and overnight parking fee. Granted, not a lot of traffic in/out of 5B6.
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5B6 also lists in the published AFD that transient aircraft are not allowed to stay overnight and that prop lock are required for all overnight stays. As well as only full stop landings, no students, no TNGs (redundant, I know), no aircraft over 5000#….

So not very many people are going to be staying overnight regardless. But it does not list a landing fee, so that would be a surprise.
 
thito01 said:
...They eventually found that the plane had been towed (without authorization) over to the FBO ramp and an overnight parking fee had been assessed....
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Wow! That's brazen!
 
Dana said:
The best way to avoid landing and ramp fees seems to be to avoid airports with control towers.
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They exist at uncontrolled fields as well. I remember having to pay five bucks a gallon [when that was a lot] for 100 LL or pay a ramp fee that exceeded what my tanks could hold.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
They exist at uncontrolled fields as well. I remember having to pay five bucks a gallon [when that was a lot] for 100 LL or pay a ramp fee that exceeded what my tanks could hold.
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True, but fees are a lot more common at larger airports with towers... especially when the FBOs have names like Signature or Million Air.
 
I understand that FBOs are private businesses, and like all businesses have to make ends meet. I get that. What I don’t get is why they don’t simply charge more for fuel, maintenance, instructing, hangar management, or whatever. Ramp fees? Imagine pulling-in to a Chevron to fill your car and being told you didn’t buy enough fuel, so there’s this extra fee you have to pay. Right. When I’m traveling by GA, I generally do call ahead to discuss parking, cars, or whatever else may be needed, and yes, I inquire about ramp fees. It seems like about half the time I’m told wrong info, whether it’s the amount of fuel to purchase to get a fee waiver, or unexplained fees for overnights or something like that. And to be honest, I feel for the dispatch/reception staff that have to deal with the situation, I’m sure they’re catching heat from some of the customers. So again, wouldn’t it be simpler to just increase the cost of fuel?
 
WillFly4Food said:
I understand that FBOs are private businesses, and like all businesses have to make ends meet. I get that. What I don’t get is why they don’t simply charge more for fuel, maintenance, instructing, hangar management, or whatever. Ramp fees? Imagine pulling-in to a Chevron to fill your car and being told you didn’t buy enough fuel, so there’s this extra fee you have to pay. Right. When I’m traveling by GA, I generally do call ahead to discuss parking, cars, or whatever else may be needed, and yes, I inquire about ramp fees. It seems like about half the time I’m told wrong info, whether it’s the amount of fuel to purchase to get a fee waiver, or unexplained fees for overnights or something like that. And to be honest, I feel for the dispatch/reception staff that have to deal with the situation, I’m sure they’re catching heat from some of the customers. So again, wouldn’t it be simpler to just increase the cost of fuel?
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Wouldn’t it be simpler to increase the cost of a meal to pay servers properLy instead of people having to tip? Some people think keeping visible costs down by adding invisible costs is a good way to do business.
 
Salty said:
Wouldn’t it be simpler to increase the cost of a meal to pay servers properLy instead of people having to tip? Some people think keeping visible costs down by adding invisible costs is a good way to do business.
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I guess it’s expectations and conventions. You’re expected to tip almost 100% of the time (in the U.S.) when waited upon at a table. It’s the inconsistency that makes ramp fees seem like a problem.
 
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