UND Plane down in ND - 1 fatality

Not much to be heard on KGFK Approach LiveATC. Sioux 20 cancelled VFR flight following at around 17:45 mark (about 7:17pm). Can see he changed squawk from 4545 to 1200 around that time. Flight aware track then ends at 7:23pm.
 
He went smoking in whatever happened….
 
Some reports saying it was suicide. :(

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I was actually thinking that. Cancelling flight following, then doing a U-turn and crashing -- couldn't think of what else it would be.
 
It wouldn’t be the first. UND lost a 22-year-old CFI to suicide 21 years ago this month. He had just been charged with a second-offense DUI that likely would have put an end to his career, and the next day took a Seminole to KRAP, did some pattern work, asked tower to tell everyone he loves them, and nosed over into the runway.

I don’t know if it’s survivor bias talking, but I think that young folks don’t have the perspective that comes from climbing the mountain of life and being able to look down from the top, a perspective that reveals that every obstacle on the way was really not that big of a deal. There are a million other factors from clinical depression to hormones and from childhood trauma to recent life setbacks, of course. But it is very hard, maybe impossible, to understand at 20 that you really will look back and laugh about it at 40.
 
iamtheari said:
It wouldn’t be the first. UND lost a 22-year-old CFI to suicide 21 years ago this month. He had just been charged with a second-offense DUI that likely would have put an end to his career, and the next day took a Seminole to KRAP, did some pattern work, asked tower to tell everyone he loves them, and nosed over into the runway.

I don’t know if it’s survivor bias talking, but I think that young folks don’t have the perspective that comes from climbing the mountain of life and being able to look down from the top, a perspective that reveals that every obstacle on the way was really not that big of a deal. There are a million other factors from clinical depression to hormones and from childhood trauma to recent life setbacks, of course. But it is very hard, maybe impossible, to understand at 20 that you really will look back and laugh about it at 40.
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Maybe, but I know someone who did essentially the same thing in his airplane, and he was in his 40s...
 
Everskyward said:
Maybe, but I know someone who did essentially the same thing in his airplane, and he was in his 40s...
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I didn’t mean to imply that age always provides immunity. Only that it can help develop a perspective in which the demons don’t seem so big.
 
I feel sad for his family.

Happened here about 20 years ago. Took off and plowed into the ground on purpose.
 
Kristin said:
I could never kill a plane just to get rid of myself. Many other ways.
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Apparently takes practice, too.

See MIA02FA104. Pilot gets drunk, crashes his helicopter, but lives. Ten hours after getting out of the hospital, he grabs a 172. Successful the second time.....

Ron Wanttaja
 
Kristin said:
I could never kill a plane just to get rid of myself. Many other ways.
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I'm obviously not in that mindset, but IF I ever was in that situation, I don't think I'd want to go that way. I'd want something a little more painless.
 
iamtheari said:
It wouldn’t be the first. UND lost a 22-year-old CFI to suicide 21 years ago this month. He had just been charged with a second-offense DUI that likely would have put an end to his career, and the next day took a Seminole to KRAP, did some pattern work, asked tower to tell everyone he loves them, and nosed over into the runway.

I don’t know if it’s survivor bias talking, but I think that young folks don’t have the perspective that comes from climbing the mountain of life and being able to look down from the top, a perspective that reveals that every obstacle on the way was really not that big of a deal. There are a million other factors from clinical depression to hormones and from childhood trauma to recent life setbacks, of course. But it is very hard, maybe impossible, to understand at 20 that you really will look back and laugh about it at 40.
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https://planecrashmap.com/plane/sd/N294ND/
:(
 
Kenny Phillips said:
...the same way that some "gun cleaning accidents" are suicides...
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I lost a relative to one of those. First thing I thought when I heard the news was there was no way that was an accident.
 
sad :(

I have spent countless hours boring holes in the sky in that area
 
Man that must have weirded out the controller when they were asked to take a number, then he states his name, etc.

Very sad.

At least he took just his own life. Could have taken out a girlfriend or wife or family. Could have been a 787 pilot years from now and taken out 360 people. Could have done it right at GFK at the intersection of 16 and 35 and shutdown a mega busy training airport, not mention freaking out all locals that knew him directly.

I feel bad for the controller at KRAP - powerless to actually stop it, even if they know it.
 
Years ago there was a guy who did a similar thing in California. he did a variation where I took a bunch of sleeping pills, put the plane on auto pilot and headed out on the Pacific and then called of the controller and gave him a phone number to call and a short script. Apparently the guy was caught embezzling. I recall the controller desperately trying to talk him out of it but to no avail.
 
There's something about transportation that seems to draw people in. A friend of mine went to one of the locks on the Mohawk and took a bunch of pills. Fortunately, a routine police patrol found her and got her to the hospital in time. I asked her what led her to that mental place, and she just said she felt she was out of options. She ended up fine in the long run, but was bumpy for a while. Some people are tuned in to give up/get out so to speak. It's tragic.
 
iamtheari said:
Here's Kathryn's Report on this week's crash.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/10/piper-pa-28-181-archer-tx-n820nd-fatal.html
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How sad. The photo shows a handsome young man with a future, perhaps one he couldn't visualize.

I can tell you it's hard to lose someone who had such promise but couldn't see their way out of whatever had captured their mind and emotions.

Last week was the fourth anniversary of my nephew Andrew's death. He was sixteen, a loving, intelligent and inquisitive young man who was adored by his family and friends. There was no indication at all he was suffering.

He couldn't overcome whatever it was that gripped his mind. This is difficult to share. The passage of time has yet to dull the pain of his loss.
 
3393RP said:
How sad. The photo shows a handsome young man with a future, perhaps one he couldn't visualize.

I can tell you it's hard to lose someone who had such promise but couldn't see their way out of whatever had captured their mind and emotions.

Last week was the fourth anniversary of my nephew Andrew's death. He was sixteen, a loving, intelligent and inquisitive young man who was adored by his family and friends. There was no indication at all he was suffering.

He couldn't overcome whatever it was that gripped his mind. This is difficult to share. The passage of time has yet to dull the pain of his loss.
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I am so very sorry for your loss.
 
I know a number people who have killed themselves... The seemingly common thread is a LIFETIME of misery, sadly.

One was 17, the others were mid 30s onward.

Regarding the bright future, it seems (likely) people with this mindset simply have this mindset. I’m not sure the situation matters, it seems they’ll find a situation to justify the end.

As a society we are as powerless to stop that as we are to solve poverty, or hunger, or any other of the extremes.

Like everything in life, there are exceptions. But this seems to be true. Doesn’t mitigate the tragedy even a little, but maybe relieves us survivors of our natural tendency to experience guilt to some degree.
 
Tools said:
I know a number people who have killed themselves... The seemingly common thread is a LIFETIME of misery, sadly.

One was 17, the others were mid 30s onward.

Regarding the bright future, it seems (likely) people with this mindset simply have this mindset. I’m not sure the situation matters, it seems they’ll find a situation to justify the end.

As a society we are as powerless to stop that as we are to solve poverty, or hunger, or any other of the extremes.

Like everything in life, there are exceptions. But this seems to be true. Doesn’t mitigate the tragedy even a little, but maybe relieves us survivors of our natural tendency to experience guilt to some degree.
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i can’t quite totally agree here… We aren’t powerless unless we choose to be. We certainly can’t stop every individual but we collectively don’t have to sit back and let it be. For sure we will never eliminate the tragedy 100% but we can make strides to prevent it. We are and have created suicide hotlines and other such things to help.

I think we are gaining ground in beginning to be more open as a society about mental health… that could be a huge step… Every bit we lower the stigma of needing a hand emotionally at times we take a step forward to make it easier for folks that are in a dark spot to reach out.

Even if we aren’t as individuals volunteering or physically working for such a cause we can do little things. We can make sure we don’t crack a joke or make fun of someone we know seeing a counselor or similar. The person we make that “harmless”crack to could be someone who may need that help themselves now or in the future. We can make sure we don’t give off the vibes that folks that need help emotionally are weak. These little things could save a life we never even were aware of.
 
I have never really evaluated what method a person committing suicide in a plane might choose, but snapping the plane into a full power graveyard spiral at low altitude would a rather quick way to go.
 
RyanShort1 said:
The problem is in the heart or soul and at the end of the day, it’s affected by your theology… which is as far as I’ll go. And yes, I know “religious” people do it, too.
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not sure I follow the thought here… I do not know this for fact but I would intuitively guess that there’s no particular theology or lack there of that is immune from the tragedy…

A USAF study, I googled about my intuition, found inconclusive evidence of such trend when viewing multiple studies… Some studies contradicted the others so the gist was it was inconclusive, however the overall trend seemed to be social interaction had a significant role which congregating is a form of. So the studies of different theologies or lack there of once adjusted for social interaction really trended towards a wash…

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7310534/
 
Hengelo said:
mental illness is seen as a character defect.
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FWIW: It depends in what circles you run in. In some it is considered a disease. Unfortunately, several important processes were struck down a number of years ago for various reasons that limit what a person can do to assist those who are mentally challenged. If we were to bring back some of those processes I believe we can save lives and fix some other social issues as well.
 
If there is medicine/treatment that cures it or puts it in remission, Imma gonna call it a disease. Agreed there is lots more society could do to mitigate the consequences of untreated illness.
 
Hengelo said:
Mental illness will kill you just as sure as cancer.

The difference is that cancer is viewed as a disease to be treated and mental illness is seen as a character defect.

What a shame.
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Not in my world.
 
Like any disease - sometimes you're lucky to get an early symptom and treatment, sometimes it kills you quick with little warning.
 
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