Twin down, Gainesville TX, Student and CFI both passed

Sad. RIP.



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Any ideas what went sideways?
 
Unit74 said:
Any ideas what went sideways?
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I’d think they were likely doing single engine work. Over the years we’ve had a fair amount of accidents while training with an engine out. There have been some big names with great credentials tripped up. Mr Murphy is out there lurking.

Of course I don’t know exactly what happened, just reading between the lines.
 
sourdough44 said:
I’d think they were likely doing single engine work. Over the years we’ve had a fair amount of accidents while training with an engine out. There have been some big names with great credentials tripped up. Mr Murphy is out there lurking.

Of course I don’t know exactly what happened, just reading between the lines.
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Unfortunately that’s about as likely as anything at this point.
 
sourdough44 said:
I’d think they were likely doing single engine work.
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Looking at the FlightAware path and altitude/airspeed details, I would say your guess is pretty close.

Everyone local is saddened by the event and curious as to what the officials are going to be saying.
 
sourdough44 said:
I’d think they were likely doing single engine work. Over the years we’ve had a fair amount of accidents while training with an engine out. There have been some big names with great credentials tripped up. Mr Murphy is out there lurking.

Of course I don’t know exactly what happened, just reading between the lines.
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If someone researches density altitude at time of crash it may give some clues. Otherwise a Seneca is very docile with one engine shut down.
 
Found elsewhere. Passing along.

——

Please share with friends and loved ones...

Francesca Norris
May 19, 1994 – July 28, 2019

Francesca Norris, 25, passed away on Sunday, July 28, 2019, due to a fatal airplane crash. Born on May 19, 1994 to Brian and Maria Norris, Francesca touched countless lives in her short 25 years. Known for her contagious joy, loving smile, quick wit, delicious baked goods, and perfectly painted fingernails, Francesca was a loyal and vivacious woman whose kindness was unending. She left a lasting impression on everyone she met and always lit up the room. Francesca was the flawless balance of adventurous, patient, and wise.

After graduating in the top of her class at Birdville High School, she attended Baylor University and graduated from the honors college as a University Scholar. Francesca was brilliant! She was sharp and cultured, yet humble and curious. Not only did Francesca love to learn, she loved to travel. While in high school and college, she became fluent in Spanish by taking trips to and studying in Spain. After college, Francesca spent a year in Thailand teaching English. Effortlessly, Francesca had the intelligence and ambition to do anything she wanted. Following in the path of her father and brother, Francesca chose to see the world as a pilot. There is no doubt that she had found what she loved to do.

Francesca treasured her family, faith, and friends. She was blessed with a loving, large extended family, which was always a priority in her life. Her love for family and friends was evident in all she did. Throughout her life, Francesca cherished her faith and was involved at Good Shepherd Catholic Community. She had a heart of gold, always willing to help others with selfless love. Francesca was a person one could rely on whenever they needed her, she always had a piece of advice and a listening ear. Francesca will be dearly missed by all who knew her.

Francesca was preceded in death by her Grandmother, Martha Ann Norris. She leaves behind parents, Brian and Maria Cucinella Norris, Brother, Alec Norris and Annie Kleinschmidt, Grandparents: Matthew and Lina Cucinella Warren and Ponda Norris, Uncles, Aunts, and Cousins: Uncle Nick, Aunt Vicky, and Cole Cucinella; Aunt Rosie, Uncle Perry, Giana and Danielle Parisi; Aunt Tonie, Uncle Steve, Zoe and Isabella Oedekerk; Uncle Wesley, Aunt Julie, Megan and Ryan Norris; and countless friends.

A celebration of Francesca’s life will be held at Good Shepherd Catholic Community, 1000 Tinker Road, Colleyville, TX 76034. Details of the Mass of Christian Burial and Entombment are forthcoming.

Fellow aviators who attend the service are asked to wear their uniform as a sign of solidarity and a nod to the career Francesca loved.

In lieu of flowers, the family has asked that donations be made in honor of Francesca to a scholarship fund that will be used to support women in aviation. For AA Credit Union Members, call 800-533-0035 and ask to make a donation to the Francesca Norris Memorial Scholarship Fund. Donations can also be made in person at AA Credit Union locations. For all others, please mail your donation in check made out to the “Francesca Norris Memorial Scholarship Fund” to 7029 Herman Jared Drive, North Richland Hills, TX, 76182.

Or visit https://www.wai.org/donate-francesca_norris
 
The pain her family bears will not recede for a long time. She was a very accomplished young lady.

The instructor's family is suffering as well.

I like to think the sorrow we all feel about these tragedies and our wishes for condolence are somehow communicated to the family members and provide some small measure of comfort.

:(
 
Prayers for family and friends. There will be a lot of pain in dealing with their loss. It is very sad.
 
3393RP said:
The pain her family bears will not recede for a long time. She was a very accomplished young lady.

The instructor's family is suffering as well.

I like to think the sorrow we all feel about these tragedies and our wishes for condolence are somehow communicated to the family members and provide some small measure of comfort.

:(
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She was the instructor. I don’t have information on her student.

Certificate: FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR
Date of Issue: 8/10/2018

Ratings:
FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR
AIRPLANE SINGLE AND MULTIENGINE
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE


Limits:
VALID ONLY WHEN ACCOMPANIED BY PILOT CERTIFICATE NO. . EXPIRES: 31 AUG 2020.
 
sourdough44 said:
I’d think they were likely doing single engine work. Over the years we’ve had a fair amount of accidents while training with an engine out. There have been some big names with great credentials tripped up. Mr Murphy is out there lurking.

Of course I don’t know exactly what happened, just reading between the lines.
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This sort of thing sometimes gets me. How many die in twins due to training accidents vs. those that die due to one engine failing unexpectedly? Sort of like the spin-training thing: if more are killed in training than in the real world, why do the training? Yet that begs the question: "How many would have died, but did not because of their training, in twins with unexpected engine failures, or in an inadvertent spin?"
 
Kenny Phillips said:
This sort of thing sometimes gets me. How many die in twins due to training accidents vs. those that die due to one engine failing unexpectedly? Sort of like the spin-training thing: if more are killed in training than in the real world, why do the training? Yet that begs the question: "How many would have died, but did not because of their training, in twins with unexpected engine failures, or in an inadvertent spin?"
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How many are alive because of that training? That, to me, is the more important parameter.
 
MauleSkinner said:
How many are alive because of that training? That, to me, is the more important parameter.
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That is the important parameter. And one that is impossible to divine; safe engine-out landings aren't something to be found in NTSB/FAA databases. Only crumpled (or fragmented, or incinerated) aluminium makes the cut. I know of a twin pilot (check hauler) that lost an engine but continued on his route (hey, only between Cincinnati and Indy, so < 100 nm). I don't know if there's any requirement to report that, but I certainly cannot find it.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
MPL?
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multi pilot license. Dilutes the amount and emphasis on individual flying ability and exposures (flight time) for more emphasis on the crew resource and computerized systems proficiency as part of the upbringing of an aspiring airline pilot. Heavy reliance on simulators as part of the streamlining of said training.
 
labbadabba said:
Motion Simulator training? There are enough of them out there...
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No...spin training or OEI training in general, specifically in airplanes, since very few people die doing this training in simulators.
 
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Kenny Phillips said:
That is the important parameter. And one that is impossible to divine; safe engine-out landings aren't something to be found in NTSB/FAA databases. Only crumpled (or fragmented, or incinerated) aluminium makes the cut. I know of a twin pilot (check hauler) that lost an engine but continued on his route (hey, only between Cincinnati and Indy, so < 100 nm). I don't know if there's any requirement to report that, but I certainly cannot find it.
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There’s a regulatory requirement to land at the nearest suitable airport with respect to time, but I don’t think there are any additional reporting requirements.
 
labbadabba said:
Motion Simulator training? There are enough of them out there...
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We do a lot of scenario based emergency procedure training on the 3-axis Redbird (set up as a Seneca II) at our Club's FTU. Pretty difficult to do engine out during take-off stuff safely any other way, as one example.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
This sort of thing sometimes gets me. How many die in twins due to training accidents vs. those that die due to one engine failing unexpectedly? Sort of like the spin-training thing: if more are killed in training than in the real world, why do the training? Yet that begs the question: "How many would have died, but did not because of their training, in twins with unexpected engine failures, or in an inadvertent spin?"
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There’s been a lot of changes in twin training over the years to mitigate the most dangerous parts, especially low level full engine outs. Below a specific altitude (your choice) we usually simulate zero thrust and don’t shut the engine down fully. Especially with an early, and likely hamfisted student. Up high, we’ll essentially accept a real emergency condition and fail an engine completely but it has to be treated as the emergency it really is. Not only that but the instructor needs to have the awareness and planning to know where the airports are that you’re going to if the engine won’t restart. Even if the student is overloaded and clueless. LOL.

At our DAs in summer we also are planning a drift down. The aircraft may not maintain altitude. That’s a full blown emergency and should be treated as such. Tell ATC. Utilize all resources.

My instructor for my MEI spent a significant portion of the time simulating being a “bad” student and drilling me on how to stop or fix it. Student pulls the wrong mixture. What do you do to get the engine back? You can’t reach the starters on the sidewall on the other side of your student. How do you teach them to do a restart? How do you assist if it won’t restart for them? Etc.

They also said, “Students are always trying to kill you, and if they’re not, the airplane will. Pay attention at all times.”

MauleSkinner said:
How many are alive because of that training? That, to me, is the more important parameter.
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Definitely.

MauleSkinner said:
There’s a regulatory requirement to land at the nearest suitable airport with respect to time, but I don’t think there are any additional reporting requirements.
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No reporting requirement. Might be logged by a towered airport if you declare, and you should, but some don’t.
 
denverpilot said:
She was the instructor. I don’t have information on her student.
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Student was one of the young Chinese lads that USAA trains.

Having a slight familiarity with the sequence of their Part 141 training, the student was likely in his fifth or sixth month with them (out of 10-11 months) and working on his CPL-Multi.

The more I hear about what was witnessed and other details, this is a good example of the “Swiss Cheese Model” having all of the holes lined up.
 
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