Twin Cessna insurance question

[John C Malone]

Hi - Does anyone have an idea of what training or time-in-type the insurance industry may require to fly a pressurized Twin Cessna? I have almost 31,000 tt, mostly in jets, and about 160 hours in C-421/414/404/337 a LONNNNG time ago. Most recently been flying singles and a Chieftain.
Thanks

 

[Fracpilot]

I would think you’d be good to go with previous time in type. Mine is a 310 and not far off in hull value. Mine only required 25 in type with 5 dual for insurance using Avemco.

They also gave me credit for recurrent training in the jet I fly for a living. They didn’t require recurrent training in the 310.


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[RussR]

The main dividing line with requiring formal training for twins does seem to be Pressurized vs not, according to an insurance agent friend of mine.

Total time/etc may make a difference, but it seems most of the insurers do want to see formal simulator training in 340's and up. Three of my clients (340 owners) have had to attend a course this year. (They went to AST in Burnet, TX.)

However, a P-Baron client of mine just had to do 15 hours dual and 10 hours solo before carrying passengers. And he was a new multiengine pilot. So it does vary.

All you can really do is call an agent and talk it out. It's been changing rapidly.

 

[iamtheari]

The number of seats is also a factor. Starting just before the pandemic, I looked at a 340, a Navajo, and eventually a 310. The insurance requirements on the Navajo were too much to bear. Premium was 8% of hull value. They wanted 50 hours of dual, and required that the instructor and I both go to simulator school, which would require we both take a week or more off our day jobs to go to the only Navajo simulator school that had an instructor at the time. I estimated the total cost of first-year insurance to be 20% of the hull value. The 310 did require some work and patience to find reasonable insurance, but it worked out and the insurance cost was about 10% of the Navajo’s.

 

[Zeldman]

The insurance requirements on the Navajo were too much to bear. Premium was 8% of hull value. They wanted 50 hours of dual, and required that the instructor and I both go to simulator school, which would require we both take a week or more off our day jobs to go to the only Navajo simulator school that had an instructor at the time.

Good grief.!! Did the insurance company own the simulator.?? The Navajo is one of the simplest twins around. Except for the Seminole.

 

[iamtheari]

Good grief.!! Did the insurance company own the simulator.?? The Navajo is one of the simplest twins around. Except for the Seminole.

I studied it a lot and wanted a short body Navajo because of their reputation for being easy to fly. I chose an instructor who is a Delta 767 captain with a prior life hauling people and checks in Navajos, and they insisted he go to simulator school. I found a closer simulator school but they didn’t have an instructor, so the only choice was high-priced in Florida.

 

[Z06_Mir]

For a pressurized cabin class twin I would expect sim school annually. I'm honestly not sure if they'd require any in-aircraft time since you have had some time in them prior but it's been awhile, if they do they may just make you fly them solo instead of with a CFI. But anymore it seems like anything pressurized is going to require annual sim training.

When we bought the 425 they required sim training and after training 25 hours in the airplane without passengers. Both my husband and I went to sim training and the insurance company agreed we could fly it together during those 25 hours, just not with passengers.

 

[Sinistar]

For the OP...what is your age?

For our resident 414 pilot they started lowering some coverage as he neared 75yrs old. He's pretty sure that within a year they will require a second pilot with him.

He has had the 414 for years. He has never mentioned sim time, but probably has so much time in type its no relevant.

I have a hunch he might be selling it soon because of this. Bummer. It is one beautiful plane.

 

[Lance F]

Frankly guys common sense should drive a pressurized twin pilot to annual sim training regardless of insurance company requirements.

 

[libertas]

Suppose the OP only had a few hours of dual and a few in type on a newly minted multi rating with about 150 hours total time? Is it necessary to have tens of thousands of hours before they will even look at you? Obviously sim time would be required, but would rates be prohibitive?

 

[iamtheari]

Suppose the OP only had a few hours of dual and a few in type on a newly minted multi rating with about 150 hours total time? Is it necessary to have tens of thousands of hours before they will even look at you? Obviously sim time would be required, but would rates be prohibitive?

You can get insured in the bigger light twins (Navajo, 414, 421) with no multi time. But you will probably save money by buying a lighter twin (Aztec, Seneca, Baron, 310) and putting some hours on it before stepping up. There was only one company that would quote me in a Navajo as my first twin, and as I mentioned above that quote was brutal. It depends on your mission, though. If you can’t accomplish the mission in an unpressurized 6-seater, then you might be better off biting the expensive bullet and going straight to the pressurized or larger plane.