Turbo Failed at FL210

Lance F

Lance F

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Lance F
There we (my son Lane and I) were Tuesday morning cruising fat, dumb and happy in my C414 at FL210 returning home to Atlanta from Burnet, TX where we had spent a day of recurrent sim training. That was a day of constant engine and other failures. It was his leg to fly back and things were good with smooth conditions, smooth running engines, 31gph total fuel flow, TAS at 202kts and ground speed around 235. Looking good for non-stop 750 nm flight. An hour or so into the flight we experienced a power loss. I looked up at the gauges. Manifold pressure on the right engine was 10" (We cruise at 31")! Everything else looked good, oil pressure, rpm, etc. We switched fuel tanks, no change, mags, no change, boost pump in high, low and off gave no change, moving the throttle seemed to change things a little, but might have been our imagination. After a minute or two maximum we decided to shut down and feather the engine. As pilot monitoring I called Houston Center and advised of our problem. We had to descend because we couldn't hold altitude on one engine nor could we hold cabin altitude below 10,000' on one.

Houston advised that Alexandria (LA) - KAEX- was close for a diversion if we wanted. I said standby and looked at the chart for our options. I checked ForeFlight and saw they did have a maintenance facility, so I told Houston we wanted to divert there and I declared an emergency. We got a vector and clearance to 11,000'. I checked the ATIS, and airport was VFR but we had a cloud layer to descend through. We made the decision to ask for the RNAV14 approach (the day before we'd done MANY single engine approaches. (The irony of all this is still quite amazing to me.) At some point Houston switched me over to Polk Approach. Both Houston Center and Polk Approach controllers did an excellent job of handling us. There was obviously a lot of landline talk going on because of us. We were high, but the approach has a hold at the IAF so we asked for and were cleared to descend in the hold and then were cleared for the approach. Lane elected to use the STEC3100 autopilot to do the flying, and it did a perfect job.

We broke through the layer, had the runway in sight, Lane switched off the A/P, flew a single engine approach (15 deg flaps, 120kts, gear down once the runway was definitely made, etc) and touched down perfectly. I had told one of the controllers we might have trouble taxiing on one engine, and it might be good to have a tug available if possible. We easily were able to make the turn off the runway at the first exit and did so. There was a fire truck waiting there, and another on the next exit, and another even further up. We were also met with various other trucks and pickups all with flashing lights on their tops and the requested tug. Actually we were able to taxi to the very nice Millionair FBO ramp without assistance.

Somebody from the fire department met us to get some information for their records and that was it. Clearly I'm facing an expensive maintenance problem and the plane is still 500 miles from home. More on that in another post.
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Maybe I’ll see your face on a poster next time I attend recurrent. :)

I saw Lane’s post on FB. Good job to both of you!
 
Awesome job, glad it worked out well, you know, except for your wallet.
 
Having 0 turbo experience, if you were making some MP, why not come back down where us peasants hang out, and fly it at that altitude?
 
Thanks for sharing, Lance! Glad to hear everything worked out well, all things considered.
 
EdFred said:
Having 0 turbo experience, if you were making some MP, why not come back down where us peasants hang out, and fly it at that altitude?
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In the air I suspected the problem was the turbo but had no way to confirm it. Certainly other explanations were possible. An engine making 0 power with unfeathered prop is a huge drag. Shutting it down to prevent possible other damage and getting rid of the drag is the priority. Then do the diagnosis on the ground. An enroute engine shutdown in this plane should be a non-event. Done properly it's quite easy to fly. A lot easier than in the sim.
 
Lance F said:
In the air I suspected the problem was the turbo but had no way to confirm it. Certainly other explanations were possible. An engine making 0 power with unfeathered prop is a huge drag. Shutting it down to prevent possible other damage and getting rid of the drag is the priority. Then do the diagnosis on the ground. An enroute engine shutdown in this plane should be a non-event. Done properly it's quite easy to fly. A lot easier than in the sim.
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That is honestly the best case for an engine failure in any twin. Almost a non event. You breathe, count to ten, then follow your procedures to secure the engine and land. The highest risk is at high power, low airspeed, and low altitude, where you have to react quickly and correctly.
 
Lance F said:
In the air I suspected the problem was the turbo but had no way to confirm it. Certainly other explanations were possible. An engine making 0 power with unfeathered prop is a huge drag. Shutting it down to prevent possible other damage and getting rid of the drag is the priority. Then do the diagnosis on the ground. An enroute engine shutdown in this plane should be a non-event. Done properly it's quite easy to fly. A lot easier than in the sim.
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Good job and yes, the turbo probably seized up. I had this happen once in our C340 but was not as high as you. You also could have had a major exhaust leak before the turbo that could have caused a fire, hard to tell in flight.
 
Too bad you had passed up Houston. Harco at EFD could’ve taken care of y’all. They do a lot of twin cessna work.
 
Lance F said:
An enroute engine shutdown in this plane should be is a non-event.
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I made one little change.

I shut one down in a 414 due to loss of oil pressure in a less than 10 hour since over haul engine. I was closer to MGW and it still flew well, but I was only climbing through 11,000.

You got the right idea, training, training and more training for the win.!!
 
I hope it wasn't a bad gauge.....had that happen once. :D
Zeldman said:
I made one little change.

I shut one down in a 414 due to loss of oil pressure in a less than 10 hour since over haul engine. I was closer to MGW and it still flew well, but I was only climbing through 11,000.

You got the right idea, training, training and more training for the win.!!
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Checkout_my_Six said:
I hope it wasn't a bad gauge.....had that happen once. :D
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He noted a power loss in his post. I've had the exact opposite experience - MAP eased it's way down 5 inches while nothing else changes. I wiggled the throttle, airspeed checks out. Double-check all the other instruments and elected to continue to an airport with a shop.

Having been in Lance's shoes though, and @Jim K, when you put it down and you are at the shop's mercy, there you are. You can look at the airport diagram, and that they have services, you make the call and hope for the best. You are at 10K and have an engine issue - there is no phone a friend, ATC doesn't know how good the place is, no yelp, etc. @Lance F Wishing you lots of luck and hoping if anyone here can give you assist, that you get it.
 
I was referring to the loss of oil pressure Zeldman noted.
masloki said:
He noted a power loss in his post. I've had the exact opposite experience - MAP eased it's way down 5 inches while nothing else changes. I wiggled the throttle, airspeed checks out. Double-check all the other instruments and elected to continue to an airport with a shop.

Having been in Lance's shoes though, and @Jim K, when you put it down and you are at the shop's mercy, there you are. You can look at the airport diagram, and that they have services, you make the call and hope for the best. You are at 10K and have an engine issue - there is no phone a friend, ATC doesn't know how good the place is, no yelp, etc. @Lance F Wishing you lots of luck and hoping if anyone here can give you assist, that you get it.
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Great job! Glad you were high enough to have plenty of options, as well as having the two of you fresh out of training so that you could each focus on separate tasks.
 
EdFred said:
Having 0 turbo experience, if you were making some MP, why not come back down where us peasants hang out, and fly it at that altitude?
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When I took Malibu initial training, I remember one of the discussions was something like "There are three basic ways to lose turbocharging. One of these is benign, but two of them could cause a fire and require an immediate landing. Unfortunately, from the cockpit, you can't tell which type it is."
 
Didn’t seize. The bearing or shaft between compressor and turbine wheels failed. They’re both independently rattling around in their housings. As to why, that’s the $64k question. We’re planning a lot of troubleshooting besides putting in another turbo before I blast off.
 
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Very nice outcome! Did you worry about the other engine failing while on the approach?
 
Lance F said:
Didn’t seize. The bearing or shaft between compressor and turbine wheels failed. They’re both independently rattling around in their housings. As to why, that’s the $64k question. We’re planning a lot of troubleshooting besides putting in another turbo before I blast off.
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How old was it?
 
Wow awesome job!

Did the AP add bank on its own in cruise? I’m still a new multi driver, but would be too worried to let AP drive useless I was way behind.
 
In your situation, I would have guessed a blown boost boot. You didn't have any smoke or fire, so it wasn't catastrophic. I bet you should have reduced power to get your MAP and EGT normalized and been fine.
 
Nicely done to the whole crew. How well did the autopilot handle the situation? I didn’t have an autopilot when I did multi training so I haven’t had a chance to let go of the yoke with one feathered.
 
Jay Urish said:
In your situation, I would have guessed a blown boost boot. You didn't have any smoke or fire, so it wasn't catastrophic. I bet you should have reduced power to get your MAP and EGT normalized and been fine.
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At FL210 there was no power. And one can only guess at what caused the problem. Continuing under these conditions is a dangerous idea IMO. With an engine failure in a light twin that second engine is there to get you to the nearest suitable airport...no more. Should we have continued and something bad happened the FAA would certainly call a bust on 91.13 careless and reckless, and it would have shown three of the 5 dangerous attitudes: invulnerability, macho and anti-authority.
From a practical standpoint the oil supply to the turbo bearing comes on its own line directly from the oil pump at full pressure and gallons per hour flow. A failure of the turbo bearing or shaft can/will pump all your oil out of the engine in minutes. Then you have even bigger and more expensive problems.
Loose a turbo...shut it down. Period

As to other posted questions, the STEC 3100 handled the airplane perfectly. Decreased the work load a lot in this situation.It flew the database hold we elected to use for our descent. However it has no way to control power. Pilot has to manage airspeed with pitch and the power on the remaining engine. This autopilot does however monitor airspeed and if it's on, it will pitch down on its own if the airspeed gets below a certain number. This engine and the turbo are right at TBO 1600 hours. Installed in 2008. No I did not worry about the other engine failing on the approach.
 
Lance F said:
No I did not worry about the other engine failing on the approach.
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Thats the part I would have worried about. Something common to both sides. Great flying and getting on the ground safely!
 
Jay Urish said:
In your situation, I would have guessed a blown boost boot. You didn't have any smoke or fire, so it wasn't catastrophic. I bet you should have reduced power to get your MAP and EGT normalized and been fine.
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How long do you let it run while doing this airborne diagnosis? If the smoke and fire does materialize, it's too late to retract the guess about a blown connection.
 
Great job! Another example of the importance of training.

I see you're a fellow glider pilot. If the second engine would have failed you were right at home.
 
Lance F said:
An hour or so into the flight we experienced a power loss. I looked up at the gauges. Manifold pressure on the right engine was 10" (We cruise at 31")! Everything else looked good, oil pressure, rpm, etc. We switched fuel tanks, no change, mags, no change, boost pump in high, low and off gave no change, moving the throttle seemed to change things a little, but might have been our imagination. After a minute or two maximum we decided to shut down and feather the engine.
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At what point did you suspect it was the turbo which had failed?

In hindsight, having MAP change from constant 31" to constant 10" are there any failures other than turbo related that could have caused this?

Lance F said:
No I did not worry about the other engine failing on the approach.
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charheep said:
Thats the part I would have worried about. Something common to both sides. Great flying and getting on the ground safely!
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When you switched fuel tanks, how long did you let it run on the other tank?
Other than fuel, are there common items that could have impacted the other engine?

I fly a twin with turbos so trying to learn from your experience.
 
Off the top of my head, there could also be an exhaust failure, so the turbo was not getting all the exhaust gas, so not spinning as fast. This is a BAD one, as those hot gasses are going SOMEWHERE and that can lead to VERY BAD thing.

You could have a large leak in the upper deck, so the turbo is supplying the air, but it is leaking out.

You could have a failure of the intake, so that there is a blockage, and the turbo cannot suck in enough air.

The problem is, you don't know, and the first one is a good reason to shut it down in a twin. In a single, you want to get it on the ground ASAP.
 
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