Tug, robot, or 4 wheeler?

GSDpilot

GSDpilot

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GSDpilot
I am looking to buy a means of getting my plane in and out of the hanger. I started looking at tugs and robots, but for the cost it almost seems comparable to a 4 wheeler. The 4 wheeler seems to have other advantages (use away from hanger, ability to tow to gas pumps and save a start, etc.). I don't know how difficult it is to maneuver the 4 wheeler while pulling or pushing the plane. Anybody out there had good or bad luck with this or advice?
 
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I use an old riding mower.

I don’t think it’s good to push backward with power.

Observe steering limits also.
 
Assuming we’re talking about the typical light airplane here, not a bigger turboprop or jet, I’d recommend buying a hand manipulated tug. Using tractors, 4 wheelers, or sit on tugs will get things broken much easier because you have less feel for what is happening and more ability to force things.

I spent close to 10 years doing line service work and helping people move airplanes and have seen a lot of damage. The bigger the tool used the more damage that resulted.
 
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Second the old riding mower.

I used to work for a company that pushed the plane, Navajo, back into the hangar with a bobcat equipped with forks. Man, that was like backing double trailers.....
 
I'm using a MiniMax tug for my aircraft. Seems to work OK. If in an icy climate, I'd recommend adding a set of chains for better grip in icy conditions.
 
couple of ideas if you deal with ice.

cat litter

or change the tires to the ones that comes with snow blower. one of my hangar neighbors uses there tires and it works pretty well without chains. i thought about changing the tires too, but too lazy to do it for 1 winter
 
Depends on the size of the plane and the weather in your area. Old mowers are great but I find the tow type easier to direct. I am selling a used Aircraft tow that is substantially less than a 4 wheeler and listed in classifieds. Feel free to message me if interested.
 
tug.

Riding mowers & 4-wheelers are great for pulling just about any GA plane.

But when it comes to pushing it turns into the "backing a hay wagon" problem. Its not to hard to push a plane if its already lined up well and its a short distance. But getting it lined up that good means you probably had to pushing it by hand to get it there. Tip: Look at the tail of the plane when pushing with a tractor/4-wheeler. It is so easy to get crossed up. And with old riding mowers on concrete they can be hard to steer on the pavement when moving slow to turn.

If you think you are going to push it with a riding mower over hundreds of feet and around corners...good luck its a skill that farmers struggle to master.

This is based on using a old JD277aws. I put a 2" on ball on the front and the back. Gave up on using the front (push). I bought a used gas powered tug. Literally 99% easier to push than a 4 wheel tractor or 4-wheeler.

However....

Now that we've moved to our owned hangar which isn't a T-hangar I can pull it in nose first :) So now I use the tractor to do that. Since there is slight slope going out I can push it out by hand. Plus we have snow and ice. The chains on the lawn tractor let me pull it across anything but glare ice. So big vote for lawn tractor or 4-wheeler if you can pull it all the way in. I've been experimenting with pulling the plane in tail first by the tail tiedown. If you park the plane nice and straight when shutting down this works. If there is a lot of angle on the nose wheel it needs to be straightened out. If I could get about 100lbs of down force on the tail tiedown I think I could pull it without futzing with the nose wheel alignment.

...For Winter People....

If you are on a lot of ice - see @WannFly's comments. Our old gas powered tug sucks on ice. And I don't think I could get a enough force on it - with chains - and with all my weight - to move a fully fueled 182.

The other place a tractor/4-wheeler is great is avoiding cold starts on the plane to fuel up, move it to wash it etc. These tend to be much longer distances that might be more than you want to do with a small powered tug.

When I ditched the front (push) hitch option I put an old snow blade on it. I have used that more times than I can count. Was just using yesterday to clear the pile that the snowplow driver left up against the door. The blade is great and I can lay a ton of weight on it and really scrape the snow down so that it just melts off the blacktop the next day. I haven't found a way to get a snow blower to scrape it that clean.
 
GSDpilot said:
Anybody out there had good or bad luck with this or advice?
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If looking for dual use a 4 wheeler will work fine. Mount a ATV hitch receiver in the front so you watch what is going on just like a tug. Had several hitch inserts to handle various tow bars. For non-aviation use I had a winch that would slide into the forward receiver. The down side is you will wear out tires at a faster rate.
 
*Hydrostatic if lawn/garden tractor
 
$400 from a used agricultural equipment dealer plus about 20 hours of restoration. Receiver and hitch available aftermarket for $120. As previously mentioned, pushing the plane back can require some patience, but can be learned relatively easily. At first it took me a few tries, but now it pretty much only requires one go.

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Do you have any need to putz around the airport from building to building, maybe schleping an engine heater or case of oil? Perhaps an old golf cart would serve dual purposes
 
I have a Best Tug A3. I’ve had it almost a year. Works great! It’s got the leaver on the handle to engage and disengage the nose wheel. (No getting on your knees) It’s plenty powerful to push my 182 with full fuel up a decent slope and over a pretty bumpy approach - threshold into my hanger. It’s not great in snow but it manages. Just have to put your weight on it and go slow. It’s not cheep but so far I’d say it’s worth the price.
 
GSDpilot said:
I am looking to buy a means of getting my plane in and out of the hanger. I started looking at tugs and robots, but for the cost it almost seems comparable to a 4 wheeler. The 4 wheeler seems to have other advantages (use away from hanger, ability to tow to gas pumps and save a start, etc.). I don't know how difficult it is to maneuver the 4 wheeler while pulling or pushing the plane. Anybody out there had good or bad luck with this or advice?
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Depends a little on what you are trying to do with the 'tug' option. IF all you are doing is moving an airplane in/out of a basic single use hangar, then there really isn't a whole lot of value in a robot tug. In that case, you may get more use and value out of a 4-wheeler or golf cart.

Robot tugs are great, easy to use and VERY expensive compared to other options. I have an RC Towbot and love it. It is definitely worth the money for me, but that is because the finer ability to manipulate aircraft allows me to fit 3 airplanes in a single hangar that I would not be able to do with a traditional tower and tug. Moving multiple airplanes in tight spaces is where the robot tugs shine. Outside of that, I don't think they are worth the money.
 
Here's my solution. A little more expensive than a lawn mower, but cheaper than a purpose built tug, and a lot more useful than either. I use it to run the girls up to the fbo to pee, and have towed the plane to the shop with it several times, which is about a half mile.
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It takes some time to get proficient steering. I own a four wheeler, and my concern with one of those is being smooth. The electric cart is very low maintenance, no fuel to worry about, and very easy & smooth to feather the throttle.
 
I'm not sure what plane you fly, but that makes a difference. An old riding mower or 4-wheeler should do just fine for any standard piston single. If you start to get into a twin (especially cabin class), not so much.
 
Mowers, golf carts, 4-wheelers, etc. will certainly get the job done. But it's hard to beat a purpose-built device for it, like a hand-operated tub (whether a Robotow, a Besttug, etc.). I've got a Twin Bonanza and previously used a mower to get it in and out of the hangar. Mower is great for towing it long distances (to the fuel pump or mx hangar), but it's kind of a hassle pushing it back. I've since purchased a Supertow tug; night and day difference in terms of ease of use and control.
 
Agreed that it's not cheap, but this little thing (redline aviation SideWinder) is amazing for moving airplanes. But it's not so good for moving other small equipment. I love it because if I'm going to a remote airport and I might need to move the plane any distance at all, it is right there, convenient and easy. At 68 yrs old, I gave up trying to push my 1.5 ton airplane around.

www.Redlineaviation.com

Redline_Sidewinder___24692.1557773989.jpg
 
JOhnH said:
Agreed that it's not cheap, but this little thing (redline aviation SideWinder) is amazing for moving airplanes. But it's not so good for moving other small equipment. I love it because if I'm going to a remote airport and I might need to move the plane any distance at all, it is right there, convenient and easy. At 68 yrs old, I gave up trying to push my 1.5 ton airplane around.

www.Redlineaviation.com

Redline_Sidewinder___24692.1557773989.jpg
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Those are really nice! But I have to take my pants off to use it. It’s too cold for that!
 
Another vote for a golf cart! I bought a new gas Yamaha in 2014 to keep at the airport. I didn't buy it to move planes but it will work fine. I have put 200 hours on it just catin around the airport BSin...
 
AlphaMike said:
Those are really nice! But I have to take my pants off to use it. It’s too cold for that!
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I'd really like to hear about why that is? Maybe that is because in Florida, it never gets that cold.
 
JOhnH said:
I'd really like to hear about why that is? Maybe that is because in Florida, it never gets that cold.
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Ohh how I wish we had Florida weather! Maybe I would remove my wheel pants if I lived down there? But I think both me and my 182 look better with pants.
 
Vote for lawn mower/tractor or 4 Wheeler. You can use it for something more than just pulling out or pushing in your plane.
 
Sinistar said:
Riding mowers & 4-wheelers are great for pulling just about any GA plane.<SNIP>If you think you are going to push it with a riding mower over hundreds of feet and around corners...good luck its a skill that farmers struggle to master.
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This is wisdom here you should consider.

My hangar buddy had (he still has it but has since retired and moved away) a very nice Rockwell Commander and he used an old converted lawn tractor to pull it out and put it in. His plane was usually in front of mine and he suggested I use this to move his plane with. It was easy enough to pull it straight out of the hangar but putting it in with that double swivel thingy going on means it can go badly in the blink of an eye. If you have any speed above a box turtle then damage is likely to occur. I may have used the tractor tug to pull it out a couple of times but mostly I just did it by hand as I didn't want to risk any damage to his airplane.
 
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I'm looking at lots of options for the RV-10.

You can buy an electric trailer dolly like this (and convert it) for under an AMU: https://www.amazon.com/SuperHandy-T...ocphy=9010794&hvtargid=pla-942781017006&psc=1

You can buy a second hand mobility chair and adapt it. I have (or have access to) a free one of those and may go that way. Golf carts, old mowers, and old rototillers/snowblowers can work too, as can homebrew stuff.

The Mac Daddy is the Best series of tugs. I'm seriously contemplating one of those, but I hate to spend the money.
 
I have an old electric three wheeled shop cart that I welded a trailer hitch to. Got some black pipe from Home Depot, cut an 8 ft length, and welded the end of a tow bar on to that and that combo works awesome.
 
Cervieres said:
$400 from a used agricultural equipment dealer plus about 20 hours of restoration. Receiver and hitch available aftermarket for $120. As previously mentioned, pushing the plane back can require some patience, but can be learned relatively easily. At first it took me a few tries, but now it pretty much only requires one go.

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View attachment 93535
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Holy smikes did the former owner ever use that? Looks brand new or did you repaint!
 
Stewartb said:
... I'm a fan of wheelers but no way do wheelers maneuver airplanes like a tug.
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bradg33 said:
Mowers, golf carts, 4-wheelers, etc. will certainly get the job done. But it's hard to beat a purpose-built device for it, like a hand-operated tub (whether a Robotow, a Besttug, etc.). I've got a Twin Bonanza and previously used a mower to get it in and out of the hangar. Mower is great for towing it long distances (to the fuel pump or mx hangar), but it's kind of a hassle pushing it back. I've since purchased a Supertow tug; night and day difference in terms of ease of use and control.
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^^^ This

I use a Supertow with a turntable for the nosewheel on the Aztec. Maneuvers the plane in and out of the hangar far better than the little tractor tug my hangar partner used to have.
 
I have a Polaris 4 wheeler for other purposes, but I don't see it making a great tug. It doesn't do well at creeper speeds, especially with a load. Despite being an 800cc machine, its relatively light weight and is easily pushed around. I'd rather have something that can creep easily and have finer control for pushing a plane into a hangar. My Polaris doesn't fit the bill, although it is fun off-roading and going 60+ mph.
 
I once worked for a company that used a museum quality tug to move planes. No P/S, leg-strong brakes, 3 speed tranny with a clutch, no roof and the top speed was 25-28 MPH. And quite difficult to operate at slow speeds using the clutch. Yet the only time a plane was damaged with it was when the chief pilot got in a hurry and ran into the nose of a 414.

If only he had followed the check list and pumped up the brake pressure before starting the engine..... I mean what tow vehicle needs 3/4 inch thick cast iron body when working around airplanes.??
 
Zeldman said:
I mean what tow vehicle needs 3/4 inch thick cast iron body when working around airplanes.??
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I think that is more about adding weight to the tug than protection. Most purpose built aircraft tugs are heavily weighted to keep the heavy airplanes they may move from pushing them around.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I think that is more about adding weight to the tug than protection. Most purpose built aircraft tugs are heavily weighted to keep the heavy airplanes they may move from pushing them around.
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True, but this thing looked like it would survive Armageddon...

This is close to what it looked like. The one we used had a badly applied Clark yellow paint job but it had AAF green under the yellow. The driver sat in the middle, straddling the stick shift. The younger folk could not drive it because of the clutch and no power steering, and like I stated earlier, it was a pain at trying to creep a plane into the hangar.

tug.jm.01.jpg
 
AdamZ said:
Holy smikes did the former owner ever use that? Looks brand new or did you repaint!
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JD's have a lot of molded plastic parts. They stay pretty looking for a long time. My 25 year old JD has a new engine cover, guaranteed to last 20 more years. The shop dropped the old (beat to pieces) cover the last time I left it there for service. Oops.
 
Pettibone tug2.jpg
Zeldman said:
True, but this thing looked like it would survive Armageddon...

This is close to what it looked like. The one we used had a badly applied Clark yellow paint job but it had AAF green under the yellow. The driver sat in the middle, straddling the stick shift. The younger folk could not drive it because of the clutch and no power steering, and like I stated earlier, it was a pain at trying to creep a plane into the hangar.

tug.jm.01.jpg
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It was probably an old Pettiboan tug. Those are usually yellow and built like tanks!
 
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