TSA pat downs

[Lance F]

Hope this topic is ok for this forum.
Today at Pittsburg airport I opted for the pat down rather than get irradiated in the nude-o-scope. I wanted to check it out.
The pat down wasn't a big deal IMO, but it took a lot of time. If very many people opted for this, it would certainly bring screening to a halt.
Frankly I wish this would happen because if there isn't a confrontation soon there will at some point be no civil rights in aviation.

 

[sba55]

Hope this topic is ok for this forum.
Today at Pittsburg airport I opted for the pat down rather than get irradiated in the nude-o-scope. I wanted to check it out.
The pat down wasn't a big deal IMO, but it took a lot of time. If very many people opted for this, it would certainly bring screening to a halt.
Frankly I wish this would happen because if there isn't a confrontation soon there will at some point be no civil rights in aviation.

Good for you, Lance! The sheeple like to get irradiated apparently, so I don't have much hope much will change.

Keep in mind, though, that the patdown you received was the quick and relatively unoffensive simple patdown. If sometime triggers the Nudoscope, or if they think they've found explosive residue on you (which happens a lot), you'll get the "resolution" patdown, which is much worse and an embarrassment for this country. Sad, sad, sad

 

[RyanShort1]

If very many people opted for this, it would certainly bring screening to a halt.
Frankly I wish this would happen because if there isn't a confrontation soon there will at some point be no civil rights in aviation.

That is EXACTLY the kind of thing that needs to be done.

Ryan

 

[Lance F]

If sometime triggers the Nudoscope, or if they think they've found explosive residue on you (which happens a lot), you'll get the "resolution" patdown, which is much worse and an embarrassment for this country. Sad, sad, sad

That was one of the things that makes the pat down take time. He put on fresh gloves for it. After he did his thing, he had to walk over to the residue detector, swab the gloves and then run the swab in the machine. Only after that was I allowed to collect my belongings.
Watching everyone ahead of me WILLINGLY stand in that machine, raise their hands, be irradiated and have someone in a dark room somewhere look at them nude is quite disheartening.
Especially galling is that the rules requiring these assaults are promulgated by officials who fly in government jets at taxpayer expense and don't have to go through the charade.
I know, I know...to the SZ

 

[wsuffa]

And a fat lot of good the virtual strip searches and the gropes do:

Passenger's actions on flight diverted to Memphis land lifetime ban from Delta

and the woman's story

Link

“Have you ever wondered if someone could get something on the plane they weren’t supposed to?” he said.

My heart dropped…

“I’m sure its possible…” I replied

“It is…”

He opened his book bag and brought out a silver metal torch-like item and put it near my leg.

He clicked a button and a 4-6 inch blue flame shot out …

No surprise. Alcohol was involved.

 

[sba55]

That was one of the things that makes the pat down take time. He put on fresh gloves for it. After he did his thing, he had to walk over to the residue detector, swab the gloves and then run the swab in the machine. Only after that was I allowed to collect my belongings.
Watching everyone ahead of me WILLINGLY stand in that machine, raise their hands, be irradiated and have someone in a dark room somewhere look at them nude is quite disheartening.
Especially galling is that the rules requiring these assaults are promulgated by officials who fly in government jets at taxpayer expense and don't have to go through the charade.
I know, I know...to the SZ

I couldn't agree with you more. To me, what's even worse than the money-wasting, degrading, and harmful nudoscopes is the fact that so many people just follow along - willingly. Kind of makes you lose faith in most of humanity

 

[SCCutler]

I have opted out every time since the fool things came to the fore, and been felt-up twice. No big deal, other than everything Lance said.

Baa-a-a-a!

 

[wsuffa]

1984. 27 years late.

 

[ebetancourt]

I couldn't agree with you more. To me, what's even worse than the money-wasting, degrading, and harmful nudoscopes is the fact that so many people just follow along - willingly. Kind of makes you lose faith in most of humanity

With a relatively new knee replacement, I can not make it through a metal detector. I avoid flying commercially to the extent that I can, but have to some times. I have a choice of a pat down or the scope at some airports, at some there is only the pat down.

I find them equally irritating and the scope is faster, so I choose the scope if it is an option. Without getting too political, I agree there are better solutions to the problem, but think this is the least of our problems.

Ernie

 

[SkyHog]

Half the fun, and I'm not joking here, is to give the "ooh yeah!" Look when they are running around your belt and crotch. Let out a light groan when they get to your inner thigh.

Make them feel uncomfortable. And do it in public. I always get this in DFW. Most other places are pretty easy to just pick the line that doesn't have the xray machine.

 

[SkyHog]

With a relatively new knee replacement, I can not make it through a metal detector. I avoid flying commercially to the extent that I can, but have to some times. I have a choice of a pat down or the scope at some airports, at some there is only the pat down.

I find them equally irritating and the scope is faster, so I choose the scope if it is an option. Without getting too political, I agree there are better solutions to the problem, but think this is the least of our problems.

Ernie

Does the fear of being irradiated not scare you, knowing that these machines already have given evidence of too high of a level of radiation to be safe in the past?

 

[Bobcat1]

Hope this topic is ok for this forum.

... If very many people opted for this, it would certainly bring screening to a halt.
Frankly I wish this would happen because if there isn't a confrontation soon there will at some point be no civil rights in aviation.

Well National Opt Out Day was the Wednesday before Thanksgiving last year. All the TSA did was turn off the machines and conduct the screening as they did before they had the nude o scopes.

Don't worry. In another 10-15 years the lawyers making a boatload of money from the mesothelioma (sp?) cases will be doing the class action thing for those TSA folks who spent time standing next to those machines, as there will be a spike in thyroid cancer cases among TSA agents.

 

[ebetancourt]

Does the fear of being irradiated not scare you, knowing that these machines already have given evidence of too high of a level of radiation to be safe in the past?

No. If I was 21 and doing it once a week, maybe. Once a month, nah. The cumulative effects at my age will have to get in line to kill me.

Ernie

 

[Lance F]

No. If I was 21 and doing it once a week, maybe. Once a month, nah. The cumulative effects at my age will have to get in line to kill me.

Ernie

You don't have kids, grandkids, nieces, cousins, any other younger Americans who travel by air that you care about?

 

[bluee]

Hope this topic is ok for this forum.
Today at Pittsburg airport I opted for the pat down rather than get irradiated in the nude-o-scope. I wanted to check it out.
The pat down wasn't a big deal IMO, but it took a lot of time. If very many people opted for this, it would certainly bring screening to a halt.
Frankly I wish this would happen because if there isn't a confrontation soon there will at some point be no civil rights in aviation.

I have opted out every time I have flown. For some reason, I seem to get picked for the new machines every time I fly from RIC. The last time a few weeks ago, I opted out again, but this time my pat down was quite invasive. First the woman pulled my hair, I don't know what she thought I might be hiding in my hair. Then roughly ran her hands down my back and butt, then she pulled the waistband of my pants so hard I almost fell over. She ran her hands all over my boobs, as if she checking if they are real or not. She ran her hands up and down my legs and into my crotch, and then down to the hem of my pants, and again pulled so hard I almost fell over.

This was all at 6:30 am. I was ready for a string of expletives by the time she was down. It was definitely uncomfortable and extremely invasive. In any other context what that woman did to me was assault.

 

[Jay Honeck]

As I tell my kids virtually weekly, I don't even recognize what this country has become. People line up like sheep to be willingly irradiated before each flight? Science fiction come true.

Now banish this thread to the Spin Zone, before we start discussing an issue that is pertinent to aviation. After all, there are iPads to discuss.

 

[ebetancourt]

You don't have kids, grandkids, nieces, cousins, any other younger Americans who travel by air that you care about?

Was that the question? I commented on what I do as a practical matter. Am I happy with what is going on? No. If I told you how I felt about the whole thing it would have to go to spin zone, and I don't go there.

Ernie

 

[RyanShort1]

It was definitely uncomfortable and extremely invasive. In any other context what that woman did to me was assault.

IT IS ASSAULT - by your own Federal Government. Just because someone in DC says it's OK, does NOT make it morally right.

Ryan

 

[sba55]

No. If I was 21 and doing it once a week, maybe. Once a month, nah. The cumulative effects at my age will have to get in line to kill me.

Ernie

That is showing quite a bit of ignorance, seeing as though leading experts in radiology have written letters to the White House explaining how this is a public health risk and how it _will_ lead to cancer in parts of the exposed population. I suggest you inform yourself. The doses we are talking about here are not insignificant and their effects are not well understood.

 

[denverpilot]

Everyone I know in the broadcast RF and microwave RF communities has cataracts in their 50s.

I will not step into one. Grab me by the hoo-has all you want, I ain't doing the scanner.

If I'm particularly annoyed that day and not in a hurry, I'll tell you I'm gay with a straight face and let your boss figure out who gets to "pat" me down.

Always fun to mess with the "system".

 

[Laurie]

I've been opting for the pat-down every time and it does take a lot of time, but in my case for other reasons. Three times now I've opted for the pat down in New Orleans and the issue is there is generally no one around who will do it. So I stand there and wait. Wait some more, and wait more while the TSA agents there stand around talking about their weekends, etc. There's only half a dozen female agents standing around, but they are all 'too busy' to take care of it. Last month when I went through I stood there for 20 minutes. I'm always early, so it's never a crunch for time for me, but I was told 3 times that if I was tired of waiting I could just go through the scanner, that it could be 'awhile' before anyone could pat me down and I could miss my flight. The man in line waiting for a pat down behind me said he wasn't comfortable with the scanners and he would wait, but his flight left in 20 minutes to which the female agent said, in a very rude tone, that there is no radiation and it's ridiculous for people to think there is and it was our responsibility to be on time for our flight, not hers. I looked at her and said it was her responsibility to ensure everyone was properly screened and it was our right to refuse the scanner. When there was a line up of 4 of us, they finally started getting us taken care of when a supervisor came over wanting to know why there were all these people lined up and getting in the way.

I haven't had to do this in any other airports as of yet, but it seems that it's a real issue of TSA pushing their own agenda, and mostly sheer laziness, when it comes to opting out at MSY. I'm not going to be flying through there anymore this year after tomorrow, thank goodness.

 

[Bob Noel]

but his flight left in 20 minutes to which the female agent said, in a very rude tone, that there is no radiation and it's ridiculous for people to think there is

And who would know better than the highly trained and always professional TSA agents?

 

[airbornejohnny]

And who would know better than the highly trained and always professional TSA agents?

And this is the icing on the cake. A couple months ago I was way early for a flight out of EWR and decided to step outside and have a smoke to cool my nerves/feelings about the security cattle pen. I wound up having a conversation with a TSA agent out there who had an issue with her "supervisor" who was (apparently) blatently avoiding his duties, and was doing what he could to hold those lower on the totem pole responsible for inconvenienced passengers who (due to TSA policy) had to wait for the supervisor. I do not remember many specifics, but walking toward the checkpoint, I recall thinking great, I'm walking toward a bunch of middle-school kiddies who don't grasp terms like "professionalism" even to their fellow employees....

 

[tdager]

IT IS ASSAULT - by your own Federal Government. Just because someone in DC says it's OK, does NOT make it morally right.

Ryan

No it does not, but as others have said, it is the law, and that law is all that matters, period. The system people, we must worship the system.

 

[wsuffa]

but it seems that it's a real issue of TSA pushing their own agenda,

And that is the real issue right there. There are a lot of ineffective things that are done, some for "administrative convenience", and the TSA hides behind "government secrecy" when questioned.

 

[Everskyward]

I just went through security at DEN and I noticed only two scanners out of about 10 lines. The line I went through and the one next to it didn't have the scanner option at all. I expected big crowds on Memorial Day but these were the shortest lines I've ever seen. I basically walked right through.

I've gone through a scanner once at SFO and it was a non-event too. I always pick the easiest option. I'm not worried about the radiation and I'm not ****ed off enough to make a political statement.

Edit: That's a censored word?

 

[James_Dean]

What REALLY ticks me off is that, when traveling together, I am 0/4 for getting selected to do the machine and my wife is 4/4.

Some guy in the back room wants to look at my giblets? Fine.

My wife and kids? Not so much.


Eggman

 

[Everskyward]

What REALLY ticks me off is that, when traveling together, I am 0/4 for getting selected to do the machine and my wife is 4/4.

Some guy in the back room wants to look at my giblets? Fine.

My wife and kids? Not so much.

I'm about 1/20 since they started. I wonder if I should feel insulted....

 

[Cap'n Jack]

<SNIP> I'm not worried about the radiation <SNIP>

You should be. You get enough just flying around.

 

[Speed]

<SNIP> I'm not worried about the radiation <SNIP>QUOTE]You should be. You get enough just flying around.

I am. I've 'avoided' the radiation machine twice now. I figure I get enough as it is, and no good reason to expose myself to more when the authorities don't really know how much it is putting out anyway. The UCSF letter was interesting reading.

 

[ajstoner21]

I just flew from DFW (Dallas) to BWI (Baltimore), and then back from BWI to DFW through Atlanta, and managed to avoid the nude-scan and the pat down. Should I be disappointed? haha

I have yet to experience either.

 

[Everskyward]

You should be. You get enough just flying around.

Yeah, but like the other guy who posted that he is not concerned I'm already old and have been exposed to lots of bad stuff like those darkroom chemicals I used to swim in.

 

[sba55]

Yeah, but like the other guy who posted that he is not concerned I'm already old and have been exposed to lots of bad stuff like those darkroom chemicals I used to swim in.

I don't get it. So because you have been exposed to some "bad stuff" in the past, you don't mind being exposed to more? Just doesn't make rational sense, especially when you cannot even quantify the danger you are being exposed to because data on this doesn't exist.

 

[Everskyward]

I don't get it. So because you have been exposed to some "bad stuff" in the past, you don't mind being exposed to more? Just doesn't make rational sense, especially when you cannot even quantify the danger you are being exposed to because data on this doesn't exist.

OK, let me put it this way. I generally don't worry too much about stuff like that, what I eat, what I drink, etc. If there is any risk from radiation I figure it is very small. I also think that people are using this supposed health risk for their own political purposes, inciting fear just like the other side does.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

OK, let me put it this way. I generally don't worry too much about stuff like that, what I eat, what I drink, etc. If there is any risk from radiation I figure it is very small. I also think that people are using this supposed health risk for their own political purposes, inciting fear just like the other side does.

As someone who used to use radiation in a lab, we went to great lengths to minimize our exposure, even to relatively benign types such as beta particles (from tritium). I tend not to call people alerting us to the dangers of x-radiation as "fear mongers". AFIAK, the TSA uses the x-ray backscatter units. I'd have agreed with your statement if they used the millimeter wave system instead. There aren't many molecular interactions at millimeter wavelengths.

 

[Everskyward]

As someone who used to use radiation in a lab, we went to great lengths to minimize our exposure, even to relatively benign types such as beta particles (from tritium). I tend not to call people alerting us to the dangers of x-radiation as "fear mongers". AFIAK, the TSA uses the x-ray backscatter units. I'd have agreed with your statement if they used the millimeter wave system instead. There aren't many molecular interactions at millimeter wavelengths.

I'm not saying that there's no risk. I'm sure it's greater than zero. But then you have the other side saying that there is risk from people carrying weapons or whatever aboard airplanes. Frankly I'm not losing sleep over either of these risks. I would rather there be less security too but I'm not at the point of being willing to inconvenience myself because of it. I think we can all make our own decisions about these kinds of things. That said, there are always people who come up with bash the government reasons when they try to implement something. I'm old enough to remember the controversy over fluoridation of water, not to mention mandatory vaccinations. Then there were the people who were worried about being sterilized by radar guns used in speedtraps. Just recently PG&E installed some new kind of electric meter in the SF condo which transmits the reading over the airwaves instead of someone coming to read the meter. Someone actually asked me if I was worried about that, healthwise. Apparently some people are.

 

[denverpilot]

RADAR guns actually did lead to much higher incidents of cancer...

Testicular cancer of the officers who stuck then between their legs between shots. Seriously.

There's documented higher rates of testicular cancer in male pilots who spend considerable amounts of time directly behind poorly-shielded weather RADAR transmitters as well.

When the option is to fly directly into a supercell or cook the giblets, I guess we'll all just hope we're in the 90+% who recover from testicular cancer, maybe minus a giblet or two.

Non-ionizing radiation is all about power level and length of exposure.

 

[jesse]

I opt out every-time and I'm always the only person I see doing it. The search itself I think is absolutely ridiculous. It takes a long time and that makes it worth it since I'm wasting their time. There is also no way in hell I'm going to let them blast me with their cancer box.

 

[ejensen]

I opt out every-time and I'm always the only person I see doing it. The search itself I think is absolutely ridiculous. It takes a long time and that makes it worth it since I'm wasting their time. There is also no way in hell I'm going to let them blast me with their cancer box.

I asked an agent at Denver on Sunday, How many folks opt out. She said not many, may 1 in 85. Also mentioned OptOut day was a bust at on on her shift.

Single sample, I know but folks are well 'indoctrinated'

 

[wsuffa]

Also mentioned OptOut day was a bust at on on her shift.

It was because the TSA turned off most of the strip-search machines that day. Hard to "opt out" if they're not using the device. There was a later admission that it's exactly why they turned 'em off.