TRSA and flight following

[Doug F]

I'm planning a long VFR flight to get to my checkride that will take me through a TRSA, just outside of Class D (and well above the top of the Class D airspace). I'm likely to be filing a flight plan and using flight following.

I know that communication with the TRSA is not required but our flight school recommends comms.
I know I'm outside of Class D airspace (although really close) so comms aren't required.
Flight following and Class D approach both use the same frequency (ATL approach)

Do I just keep trucking through the TRSA or is there some communication I need to initiate with ATL approach as I get close to the TRSA?

My guess is that I'm covered since I'm already talking to ATL approach and I don't need to do anything as I get close to the TRSA.

I have not had the occasion to file a flight plan or use flight following so this is all new.

Thanks for your advice.
ps: closest thing I could find to my question is this thread; seems like they're doing the same thing as me but asking a slightly different question.
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/easy-trsa-question.83265/

 

[Clark1961]

If you are on flight following the the TRSA won’t be a ‘thing’. You’ll already be talking to them. If you have to enter a Delta while on flight following then ATC should take care of that and tell you they have done so. Some areas are better than others about these details. Use the ‘student pilot’ call so they know your experience level and most likely ATC will be helpful.

 

[mscard88]

If you are talking (participating) with ATC (ATL approach in this case) they will do any coordination w/ other ATC facilities. They will also hand you off to adjacent facilities, if needed, such as a control tower or another sector.

Where is the TRSA? I know MGM has one. MCN and CSG are actually under ATL approach.

 

[Clark1961]

On a side note, ATC isn’t some bad bogeyman or even just automatons. The language/phrasing they use most of the time is required by their training. If you need clarification on something just ask in plain English and then they are free to talk like a normal human being. For the most part ATC folks are just doing their job and will be helpful if at all possible. Sometimes they get busy and might seem a bit curt. It’s just the job, not you. If you need help and tell them and they usually can make time available to help. That’s not saying it’s okay to be a bother, know your business (where you are going, etc) and fly your plane.

 

[iamtheari]

Since you're going to the check ride, I would suggest that you use this as a learning opportunity to find the answer to your question in the FAR/AIM and explain it here, then wait for everyone on POA to critique it (just pretend that it's constructive criticism in this instance). You'll probably have to do that with several questions during the oral exam and, despite appearances, it's better to practice here than during the exam.

The examiner could phrase it any way he or she feels like that day and could ask anywhere from 0 to 100 questions about this topic. Here are some examples:

Did you fly through the TRSA on the way in? Did you talk to approach before entering it? Was it required for you to talk to ATC before entering the TRSA? Why/why not? If you had decided to divert to the Class D airport in the TRSA, what procedure would be required? What if your radio stopped working while you were in the TRSA?

On all questions during the oral and practical exams, the key is this: If you know the answer, give it. If you don't know or aren't sure of the answer, know how to find it. If you don't have the ability safely to find it (such as if the examiner asks about all this while you're turning base to land), then explain why you can't answer it at that moment.

 

[EdFred]

Just think of a TRSA as D+ airspace, or D with optional C services.

 

[Doug F]

If you are talking (participating) with ATC (ATL approach in this case) they will do any coordination w/ other ATC facilities. They will also hand you off to adjacent facilities, if needed, such as a control tower or another sector.

Where is the TRSA? I know MGM has one. MCN and CSG are actually under ATL approach.

I'm flying through the MCN TRSA and should not enter their Delta airspace; the route puts me just on the west of the zone and I'll be above the 2900' ceiling of that airspace.

 

[Doug F]

On a side note, ATC isn’t some bad bogeyman or even just automatons. The language/phrasing they use most of the time is required by their training. If you need clarification on something just ask in plain English and then they are free to talk like a normal human being. For the most part ATC folks are just doing their job and will be helpful if at all possible. Sometimes they get busy and might seem a bit curt. It’s just the job, not you. If you need help and tell them and they usually can make time available to help. That’s not saying it’s okay to be a bother, know your business (where you are going, etc) and fly your plane.

Thanks. I've read that in more than one post. I just have never spoken to anyone except Unicom. This is more of an 'oh ****' moment that moves my timeline for doing this kind of flying from 'someday' to 'next Tuesday'. I'm sure if I get stuck/confused, my CFI will assist.

 

[FlyBoyAndy]

I have not had the occasion to file a flight plan or use flight following so this is all new.

It's been quite some time since I took my private check ride, but isn't preparing a flight plan (maybe not activating it) one of the things you do for the check ride? I would have assumed you have already prepared one.

 

[Doug F]

Since you're going to the check ride, I would suggest that you use this as a learning opportunity to find the answer to your question in the FAR/AIM and explain it here, then wait for everyone on POA to critique it (just pretend that it's constructive criticism in this instance). You'll probably have to do that with several questions during the oral exam and, despite appearances, it's better to practice here than during the exam.

The examiner could phrase it any way he or she feels like that day and could ask anywhere from 0 to 100 questions about this topic. Here are some examples:

Did you fly through the TRSA on the way in? Did you talk to approach before entering it? Was it required for you to talk to ATC before entering the TRSA? Why/why not? If you had decided to divert to the Class D airport in the TRSA, what procedure would be required? What if your radio stopped working while you were in the TRSA?

On all questions during the oral and practical exams, the key is this: If you know the answer, give it. If you don't know or aren't sure of the answer, know how to find it. If you don't have the ability safely to find it (such as if the examiner asks about all this while you're turning base to land), then explain why you can't answer it at that moment.

I've been doing just that except in my practice, I was doing a flight that ended inside a TRSA at an uncontrolled airport rather than just passing through.
Without looking anything up:
Did you fly through the TRSA on the way in? Yes
Did you talk to approach before entering it? Yes, I was on flight following and working with ATL approach
Was it required for you to talk to ATC before entering the TRSA? No
Why/why not? Participation in a TRSA is optional for VFR
If you had decided to divert to the Class D airport in the TRSA, what procedure would be required? Contact ATL Approach (handles MCN), say who I am, where I am, explain I am diverting, and request landing clearance.
What if your radio stopped working while you were in the TRSA? Squak 7600 for a few minutes, then switch to 1200 (saw this in another forum post yesterday, did not look it up).

 

[Doug F]

It's been quite some time since I took my private check ride, but isn't preparing a flight plan (maybe not activating it) one of the things you do for the check ride? I would have assumed you have already prepared one.

Sport pilot. I do have to prepare a flight plan but the one I've done was for a different DPE, different airport, and a TBD flight. In my original plan, I was nowhere near a TRSA.
The question about the TRSA is actually related to the flight plan I'll need to fly to get to the checkride, not the planned checkride flight. In other words, I actually will be flying through a TRSA and wanted to make sure I was correct that FF would cover all my comm needs related to the TRSA (FF is by ATL approach, TRSA is the same). Looks like I had it right!
Once I get my checkride flight info, I'll then need to plan that out.

 

[Doug F]

If you are talking (participating) with ATC (ATL approach in this case) they will do any coordination w/ other ATC facilities. They will also hand you off to adjacent facilities, if needed, such as a control tower or another sector.

Where is the TRSA? I know MGM has one. MCN and CSG are actually under ATL approach.

Also, I'll be talking to ATL when I leave GVL but on a different frequency. Somewhere between GVL and my final stop at 4J5 ATL will hand me off to ATL on a different frequency who will hand me off to Valdosta.
Too bad the DPE isn't riding with me...it'd be one hell of a checkride just getting to the checkride.

I'm still holding out hope that the flight school will find someone a bit closer. 3 hours down with one stop for fuel, a few hours for the test, then 3 hours back with one stop for fuel...gonna be a long day.

 

[mscard88]

I'm flying through the MCN TRSA and should not enter their Delta airspace; the route puts me just on the west of the zone and I'll be above the 2900' ceiling of that airspace.

MCN airspace is under ATL approach jurisdiction as well as Columbus. They combined these two around 10 or so years ago.

Also, I'll be talking to ATL when I leave GVL but on a different frequency. Somewhere between GVL and my final stop at 4J5 ATL will hand me off to ATL on a different frequency who will hand me off to Valdosta.
Too bad the DPE isn't riding with me...it'd be one hell of a checkride just getting to the checkride.

I'm still holding out hope that the flight school will find someone a bit closer. 3 hours down with one stop for fuel, a few hours for the test, then 3 hours back with one stop for fuel...gonna be a long day.

Crap! You have to fly from Gainesville to Valdosta for your check ride? One end of the state to the other. That really blows. Hope you can find a DPE closer. You will be worn out. You might consider flying down the night before, get a hotel room, and get rested for the following day.

 

[cowman]

Once you're on flight following the controllers will pass you along to whoever you need to be talking to "Bugsmasher N1234, contact XYZ approach on 123.4". As long as you follow these instructions you're talking to who you're supposed to be talking to. That's one of the big perks of using flight following aside from the advisory service- you don't have to worry about who to call up once you're on.

If you're about to enter airspace you're not allowed into such as a restricted area or bravo airspace they will almost always say something- either giving you clearance through it or steering you around it. It's still your responsibility as pilot in command but it does give you an extra layer of protection.

 

[Doug F]

Crap! You have to fly from Gainesville to Valdosta for your check ride? One end of the state to the other. That really blows. Hope you can find a DPE closer.

I've been queued up to use Greenwood (GRD). My original checkride was scheduled for Sept. I freaked and cancelled (probably a good decision). The DPE has up to an 8 week lead time. Nov/Dec got mucked up with holidays so I was rescheduled for Jan. Cancelled for weather. Rescheduled for early March...cancelled weather. Rescheduled for late April...cancelled weather. Next available, June. I asked the flight school if they knew of anyone else. There are 3 DPEs out of the Atlanta FSDO including this one down in Valdosta. There's one in Toccoa (20 minutes away by plane) so I'm hoping that one pans out. At this point I'm pretty much open to any option that gets me through the oral/practical before the end of the year!

 

[Doug F]

Once you're on flight following the controllers will pass you along to whoever you need to be talking to "Bugsmasher N1234, contact XYZ approach on 123.4". As long as you follow these instructions you're talking to who you're supposed to be talking to. That's one of the big perks of using flight following aside from the advisory service- you don't have to worry about who to call up once you're on.

If you're about to enter airspace you're not allowed into such as a restricted area or bravo airspace they will almost always say something- either giving you clearance through it or steering you around it. It's still your responsibility as pilot in command but it does give you an extra layer of protection.

Good stuff. For the kind of flying I've been doing, and plan to do once I get my cert, FF will be overkill. For this flight it'll be a good thing.

 

[SbestCFII]

If you're getting flight-following, you'll just be turned over to the TRSA controllers. If you're not getting flight-following, then you can call up the TRSA on the appropriate published frequency, and request flight-following. If you don't want flight-following, then stay outside the Delta and keep on trucking. However, there is never a reason to not have flight following on a long cross-country flight. If you're interested in moving in the ratings, especially if you want to get an instrument rating, you'll need to get comfortable working with ATC.

 

[Velocity173]

MCN airspace is under ATL approach jurisdiction as well as Columbus. They combined these two around 10 or so years ago.



Crap! You have to fly from Gainesville to Valdosta for your check ride? One end of the state to the other. That really blows. Hope you can find a DPE closer. You will be worn out. You might consider flying down the night before, get a hotel room, and get rested for the following day.

I had to go from north Atlanta to Florence 2 days ago for my ME checkride. Pain in the butt!

 

[WannFly]

Good stuff. For the kind of flying I've been doing, and plan to do once I get my cert, FF will be overkill. For this flight it'll be a good thing.

Flight Following is never a over kill and ATC would rather have you talking to them vs just trucking around in TRSA, they dont know what your intentions are.

 

[EdFred]

Flight Following is never a over kill and ATC would rather have you talking to them vs just trucking around in TRSA, they dont know what your intentions are.

It is if you aren't in radar contact...in say a Cub below 600' all day.

 

[Doug F]

If you're interested in moving in the ratings, especially if you want to get an instrument rating, you'll need to get comfortable working with ATC.

Going for Sport, no intention to ever go further. I'm doing this for grins and giggles and to see if I can actually get my cert. This is the first really new thing I've tried to learn in a long time. Day, VFR, good weather, short distances, low and slow suits me just fine. I've tossed around the idea of buying something but I'm not sure the cost/benefit is there since I'm probably only going to get a max of 10 years of flying in before I need to quit.

 

[Doug F]

Flight Following is never a over kill and ATC would rather have you talking to them vs just trucking around in TRSA, they dont know what your intentions are.

For this specific flight, FF will be a good thing. Most days when I'm really flying it'll be from/to untowered airports through Echo airspace with an option to do some sightseeing along the way. If/when my flights get longer or I start flying over the mountains...yep, FF is the way to go.

 

[WannFly]

For this specific flight, FF will be a good thing. Most days when I'm really flying it'll be from/to untowered airports through Echo airspace with an option to do some sightseeing along the way. If/when my flights get longer or I start flying over the mountains...yep, FF is the way to go.

cool. you have higher personal minimums than i do

 

[luvflyin]

I'm planning a long VFR flight to get to my checkride that will take me through a TRSA, just outside of Class D (and well above the top of the Class D airspace). I'm likely to be filing a flight plan and using flight following.

I know that communication with the TRSA is not required but our flight school recommends comms.
I know I'm outside of Class D airspace (although really close) so comms aren't required.
Flight following and Class D approach both use the same frequency (ATL approach)

Do I just keep trucking through the TRSA or is there some communication I need to initiate with ATL approach as I get close to the TRSA?

My guess is that I'm covered since I'm already talking to ATL approach and I don't need to do anything as I get close to the TRSA.

I have not had the occasion to file a flight plan or use flight following so this is all new.

Thanks for your advice.
ps: closest thing I could find to my question is this thread; seems like they're doing the same thing as me but asking a slightly different question.
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/easy-trsa-question.83265/

"Do I just keep trucking through the TRSA or is there some communication I need to initiate with ATL approach as I get close to the TRSA?"
Yes/No. Keep on trucking/don't say anything special.

"My guess is that I'm covered since I'm already talking to ATL approach and I don't need to do anything as I get close to the TRSA."
Good guess. Even if you weren't already talkin with ATL you don't need to do anything (except comply with any overlapping Airspace requirements.) Unless you want TRSA service. The key word in TRSA is "Service." It's a 'service' that is provided. There are no rules that require you to accept it. You can even fly into a TRSA, remaining on Flight Following, or request it, and tell them "negative TRSA service." See TERMINAL VFR RADAR SERVICE in the Pilot/Controller Glossary. AIM 4-1-18 gives all the details. Basic Radar Service is what is affectionately known as 'Flight Following.'

 

[Doug F]

cool. you have higher personal minimums than i do

Noob + not my plane makes me pretty conservative.
IMSAFE, anything on that list fails me.
Wind or gusts at the airport approaching 20 knots if I've been flying 2x per week...I'm done. If it's been more than a week in the plane, anything much over 12 and I'm done.
Crosswinds over 5...I'm (probably) done.
Have to have 4000' ceilings 1 hour after I land + 5 miles vis for the flight center.

The Skycatcher could have been named the Aircatcher...it moves a lot in any wind. My tolerance and ability to control improves if I fly in wind a lot so I tend to error out on the conservative side. Crosswinds still mess me up. If I have much of a crosswind plus gusts, it's all over.

The good news is even on days that exceeded my mins (we were using them as learning days, winds were over 20 and crosswind was about 9 with some gusting) I've been able to get the plane on the ground without breaking anything so I'm pretty comfortable that I can at least get home and retain rental privileges.

For a point of reference, the Skycather's demonstrated ground wind speed is 22 knots and crosswind is 12.