Triple 4, double charlie - does it annoy you?

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morleyz

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jeff
Just a completely meaningless rant here, but I was returning from a xc earlier today and someone at a different airport on my home drome's frequency was doing TNGs in the pattern. "Field XYZ, Cessna triple five tango...blah blah". Every leg. Triple five tango (N number revised to protect the guilty). There is another plane in my area that I often hear that says double mike in his N number.

I don't know why I was so cranky about it today, but I just wanted to tell triple five tango that triple five tango has the exact same amount of syllables as five five five tango and you're not cool. I also have found it humorous that double mike actually adds a syllable to his N number.

Am I alone in this annoyance?
Would you ever blindly tell them?
 
Doesn’t bother me at all. Is he telling me where he is and where he’s going to be? If so, then good enough. I wouldn’t call them out over the air and start being the radio police.
 
Lol, I guess I'm in the minority. What do you think ATC says when he calls up?
 
morleyz said:
Lol, I guess I'm in the minority. What do you think ATC says when he calls up?
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Depends on the controller. I’ve heard controllers answer calls like that just as if they’d been by the book, and have heard them respond with “aircraft calling, say again your callsign”, and with slowly and deliberately answering with the “proper” callsign.

And then there is the controller who told me to fly heading tree-fife-zero. “Three five zero, Cessna One Zero Hotel.” “Cessna one zero Hotel, Norcal approach, fly heading tree fife zero.” “Three five zero, one zero Hotel.” “Cessna one zero Hotel, fly heading TREE FIFE ZERO.” “Yeesh, alriiiight, tree. Fife. Zeeeeero. And when you’re able, cancel flight following.”
 
Richard Collins used to annoy me in his Sporty’s videos by referring to his Cessna as Forty RC. (like the cola).
It seemed weird to have a training video use non-standard call sign phraseology.
 
I spent a couple of years in the right seat where my job was checklists and communications. The USAF was pretty strict about proper radio phraseology, at least in non-combat missions (no "no joy," "tally ho," "angels seven," etc.) so I tend to follow the rules. I don't ask for "flight following," I request "VFR traffic advisories." I use the full call sign unless ATC has shortened it, and I don't say things like "red and white high wing" instead of the legal identifications such as N-number, manufacturer, or model.

I have never, ever said "any traffic in the area please advise" (which the AIM specifically prohibits) and I don't get the point of the latest one, "last call." If it's your last call, don't make another call.

Yeah, I like precision in communications, but if you folks like to do it differently, that's OK, as long we can understand.
 
No, it doesn't bother me one bit, but obviously it does bother you. So,.....

Sit in a quiet place, close your eyes, and find your happy place. Then seek a little forgiveness for others, and remind yourself that the only person whose behavior you can actually control is your own. You will not be able to change this other pilot's behavior, nor should you try. You must therefore adjust your own behavior. You should quit flying.

Hope this helps.
 
I have a buddy that would probably bug you. He flies “niner triple niner sierra” but maybe not since his is actually shorter. But how many nines is that?
 
Salty said:
I have a buddy that would probably bug you. He flies “niner triple niner sierra” but maybe not since his is actually shorter. But how many nines is that?
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Why not quadruple niner sierra?
 
Half Fast said:
Me, too. Therefore I must point out that, regarding...

...since the AIM is non-regulatory, it can't "prohibit" anything (to be precise).
:)
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OK, not "prohibited." It specifically says, "should not be used under any condition." I believe administrative law judges have ruled that guidance in the AIM, though not regulatory, must be followed.
 
Hearing it doesn't seem to bother me, if anyone I fault the person requesting silly registration characters.
"November xxx Echo Echo" - well, it was funny the first thousand times.
 
Hard to ignore what Fox Xray (ATC) guy has to say
jetcareers.com

United Triple nickel

Just my opinion- if everything is understood by the pilot and controller then everything is ok. That is the exact purpose of standard phraseology - eliminate any potential confusion or misunderstanding. Non-standard phraseology, no matter how cute, has the potential to screw up the message...
jetcareers.com jetcareers.com
 
I had an AH-1 Cobra in my first platoon with the last three 007…we used to check in with ATC with the call sign Army Ball 7…otherwise with the last three on all other aircraft…never thought much about it.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Hard to ignore what Fox Xray (ATC) guy has to say
jetcareers.com

United Triple nickel

Just my opinion- if everything is understood by the pilot and controller then everything is ok. That is the exact purpose of standard phraseology - eliminate any potential confusion or misunderstanding. Non-standard phraseology, no matter how cute, has the potential to screw up the message...
jetcareers.com jetcareers.com
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The 555th Fighter Squadron always checked in with departure “passing 555 for 5000”. Made it easy to know which squadron just launched.

Warlock said:
I had an AH-1 Cobra in my first platoon with the last three 007…we used to check in with ATC with the call sign Army Ball 7…otherwise with the last three on all other aircraft…never thought much about it.
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That would be balls seven for us in the AF.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Hard to ignore what Fox Xray (ATC) guy has to say
jetcareers.com

United Triple nickel

Just my opinion- if everything is understood by the pilot and controller then everything is ok. That is the exact purpose of standard phraseology - eliminate any potential confusion or misunderstanding. Non-standard phraseology, no matter how cute, has the potential to screw up the message...
jetcareers.com jetcareers.com
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I had to chuckle at Fox Xray who complained about pilots not using standard phraseology and then said "Say no joy". That might be commonly understood, but I believe the standard phraseology would be "negative contact", would it not?
 
Salty said:
I had to chuckle at Fox Xray who complained about pilots not using standard phraseology and then said "Say no joy". That might be commonly understood, but I believe the standard phraseology would be "negative contact", would it not?
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Negative contact or clean if there’s no returns at all.

ETA: for TCAS systems I’m not aware of any brevity words. There are some for data link symbology presence/non-presence, but I’ve long forgotten those.
 
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My N-number has five different digits. After my initial call as Ercoupe 12345 in the pattern or entering the pattern, I just say Ercoupe “turning base for 22” (or whatever). Keeps it short and distinctive. Non-towered fields, of course.
 
morleyz said:
Just a completely meaningless rant here, but I was returning from a xc earlier today and someone at a different airport on my home drome's frequency was doing TNGs in the pattern. "Field XYZ, Cessna triple five tango...blah blah". Every leg. Triple five tango (N number revised to protect the guilty). There is another plane in my area that I often hear that says double mike in his N number.

I don't know why I was so cranky about it today, but I just wanted to tell triple five tango that triple five tango has the exact same amount of syllables as five five five tango and you're not cool. I also have found it humorous that double mike actually adds a syllable to his N number.

Am I alone in this annoyance?
Would you ever blindly tell them?
Click to expand...
Doesn't annoy me. I was a Controller for 30 years. It often made it easier to get it.
 
Is he asking “any traffic in the area, please advise” at the end of every single call in the pattern all the way to announcing which tie-down he has parked at? I’ve heard that. Call signs don’t bother me so much. But if I were a controller and heard someone checking in as “123 Fox,” I’d start singing Clarence Carter.
 
Salty said:
I had to chuckle at Fox Xray who complained about pilots not using standard phraseology and then said "Say no joy". That might be commonly understood, but I believe the standard phraseology would be "negative contact", would it not?
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Also, he said this:
On my screen I see a data tag that says UAL555, I'm listening for United Five Five Five or **maybe** triple five. Anything else I have the potential to miss the call...
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When he should be correctly looking for “United Five Fifty-five.” At least in the US.
 
I like it, it’s unique and it helps me keep track of at least one plane without thinking about a tail number if there’s more than 1 plane where I’m landing or taking off.
 
morleyz said:
Am I alone in this annoyance?
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As an interim solution, switch to De Caff?

Salty said:
I have a buddy that would probably bug you. He flies “niner triple niner sierra” but maybe not since his is actually shorter. But how many nines is that?
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Nine triple Nine Sierra would be "9 27 S"
 
morleyz said:
Am I alone in this annoyance?
Would you ever blindly tell them?
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Sometimes the short hand just rolls off the tongue easier even if it's the same number of syllables -- or more. I don't mind it and wouldn't try calling someone out over it.
And the only verbal call signs I find annoying are the Canadian aircraft registration (and others comprised of all letters). When they're like: "charlie golf foxtrot november alpha, inbound for landing". That gets old.
Come to think of it, maybe I'm a xenophobe against foreign aircraft :)
 
luvflyin said:
Doesn't annoy me. I was a Controller for 30 years. It often made it easier to get it.
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Appreciate the controller perspective. Curious what you as a controller would do if you were reaching out to UAL555 (example above) on guard (I hear a lot of this around Chicago). I wonder if non-standard phraseology trips anyone up. I think I would be guilty if my tail number was something that could be shorthanded and I got used to it and might miss a call with the standard tail phraseology. I don't really fly anything else, so my brain is pretty tuned to listen for my tail, which I imagine airline pilots probably have to be more flexible than me.

This actually, mostly turned out to be a more interesting conversation that I expected. Thanks for everyone that genuine participated.
 
It really annoys me to hear, ''any traffic in the area please respond''.

I would respond with ''there may or may not be an aircraft in the area that doesn't have a radio, so keep an eye out...''
 
Zeldman said:
It really annoys me to hear, ''any traffic in the area please respond''.

I would respond with ''there may or may not be an aircraft in the area that doesn't have a radio, so keep an eye out...''
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That would annoy me, too. The proper phrase is "Any traffic in the area please ADVISE". ATITAPA for short. Please use the proper phraseology!
 
“Any traffic in the area?”

“Yes, but let me tell you this. I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. I will not pursue you. But if you get in my pattern, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.”
 
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pburger said:
That would annoy me, too. The proper phrase is "Any traffic in the area please ADVISE". ATITAPA for short. Please use the proper phraseology!
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Heard that crap today from a Citation jet three times on his approach, while I was flying in the pattern with a student, and she was making standard calls. What more advice does he want? The student called downwind, base and final.

Another version we sometimes hear is "Any traffic in the area BE advised."

And then there is the newer one, "Last call." So, what? If it is your last call, don't make any more calls and we will figure it out.

From Strunk & White's "Elements of Style," a short book on proper grammar, a beautiful sentence: "Omit needless words."
 
TCABM said:
The 555th Fighter Squadron always checked in with departure “passing 555 for 5000”. Made it easy to know which squadron just launched.



That would be balls seven for us in the AF.
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Yeah, he/she would lose mind with our puns and frequency check-ins/outs at UPT/IFF and fighter FTU bases. Thankfully, they keep us rowdy toys locked up on Uniform freq for the most part, while the pedants on Victor continue to inspire kids to recant and take up a career in pulling teeth for a liv-- hey there's a cat on guard! Reveal yourself at once!
:biggrin:
 
morleyz said:
Appreciate the controller perspective. Curious what you as a controller would do if you were reaching out to UAL555 (example above) on guard (I hear a lot of this around Chicago). I wonder if non-standard phraseology trips anyone up. I think I would be guilty if my tail number was something that could be shorthanded and I got used to it and might miss a call with the standard tail phraseology. I don't really fly anything else, so my brain is pretty tuned to listen for my tail, which I imagine airline pilots probably have to be more flexible than me.

This actually, mostly turned out to be a more interesting conversation that I expected. Thanks for everyone that genuine participated.
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In that case I’d have said United Five Fifty Five. Unless the pilot had previously called himself United Triple Five. Same for you. Say you were N53334. If you had previously called yourself as Five Triple Three Four then that’s what I’d call you. Standby for Fife, Tree and Fower discussions. You had used Five Five Five in your post above. For Air Carriers it has always been the numbers in group form. Five Fifty Five, not Five Five Five. That was mentioned above, brb, there it is, post #27
 
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luvflyin said:
In that case I’d have said United Five Fifty Five. Unless the pilot had previously called himself United Triple Five. Same for you. Say you were N53334. If you had previously called yourself as Five Triple Three Four then that’s what I’d call you. Standby for Fife, Tree and Fower discussions. You had used Five Five Five in your post above. For Air Carriers it has always been the numbers in group form. Five Fifty Five, not Five Five Five. That was mentioned above, brb, there it is, post #27
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I got the part about if I checked in with whatever, that's probably what you would use. It's interesting to hear how these situations are all a little nuanced. I wasn't aware there was a different standard that was agreed upon between air carriers and ATC.
 
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