Trig Avionics

[Huckster79]

So I’m considering a new transponder with ADSB out. It’s for a 47 Cessna 140, so nothing fancy needed (nor wanted really)....

Ran across this line... 2.3 AMU and plug and play w my legacy king unit basically.

TT31. Just never heard anyone talk about that line... good bad or in between. I don’t need bells and whistles just reliability if I’m going to “invest” in one...

thoughts?

 

[GLDP]

The Trig TT31 is ADS-B capable but not on it’s own. You’d still near to get another box, run coax and mount a GPS antenna.

The cheapest option in my opinion for an all new transponder is the Garmin GTX335 that includes internal WAAS or the uavionix tailbeacon/skybeacon if you’re transponder is still okay.

 

[kep5niner]

I’ve got the TT31 installed and can’t complain. It does require a GPS source, and my 400W works fine for that. I would have preferred something along the lines of the Garmin GTX 345, but the local Garmin dealer was well into 2020 for availability when I was addressing this in early 2019.

 

[Jesse Saint]

If you have a WAAS GPS, the TT31 is t a bad opti9n, but the KT74 or the Avidyne AXP340 are the same unit with a much nicer user interface. If you don’t have a GPS, the cheapest option is the Stratus ESG.

 

[Clip4]

Trig manufactures ADS for manufacturers you know.

 

[Huckster79]

If you have a WAAS GPS, the TT31 is t a bad opti9n, but the KT74 or the Avidyne AXP340 are the same unit with a much nicer user interface. If you don’t have a GPS, the cheapest option is the Stratus ESG.

interesting as stratus esg was what I was looking at first then ran into the Trig- I did catch after posting this that it isn’t ADSB just that it’s capable, I think I’ll go back to looking at the stratus esg...

 

[GLDP]

interesting as stratus esg was what I was looking at first then ran into the Trig- I did catch after posting this that it isn’t ADSB just that it’s capable, I think I’ll go back to looking at the stratus esg...

One thing to keep in mind is the Garmin GTX335 promo kit that is available includes a brand new encoder (Garmin GAE 12). If you don’t already have a solid state encoder the price of the ESG might end up being more than the Garmin.

Also you never mentioned if your old transponder was dying or you just wanted ADS-B out. If you install a whole new system expect that you’d also need to buy a new blade antenna to be mounted (Comant CI-105) and possibly a notch filter (TED 4-70) added to your VHF radios. With the Uavionix beacon both of those wouldn’t be needed.

 

[Jesse Saint]

Your existing antenna and encoder will work fine with the ESG or the GTX335.

 

[Bathman]

The trig TT21 comes with built in altitude encoder.

 

[bnt83]

The trig TT21 comes with built in altitude encoder.

I'm not sure if that is a plus or a minus. If the encoder goes bad what does it cost?

If and external encoder goes bad I know what new ones cost how little effort it is to replace.

 

[Huckster79]

One thing to keep in mind is the Garmin GTX335 promo kit that is available includes a brand new encoder (Garmin GAE 12). If you don’t already have a solid state encoder the price of the ESG might end up being more than the Garmin.

Also you never mentioned if your old transponder was dying or you just wanted ADS-B out. If you install a whole new system expect that you’d also need to buy a new blade antenna to be mounted (Comant CI-105) and possibly a notch filter (TED 4-70) added to your VHF radios. With the Uavionix beacon both of those wouldn’t be needed.

well she doesn’t report alt continuously- so I’m thinking bad encoder or maybe even just a dirty connection. So that’s up in the air. I’m just not sure even if it’s just a bad connection is it worth it to put a tailbeacon on when the transponder is 40 years old... if it dies I would be in for more expense than if I just did a ADSB new transponder wouldn't I?

I get a bit lost fast on this stuff as avionics arent “my thing”.... so I appreciate the education so I’m not always behind the learning curve on this...

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I'm not sure if that is a plus or a minus. If the encoder goes bad what does it cost?

If and external encoder goes bad I know what new ones cost how little effort it is to replace.

Don’t know about cost, but replacing modern avionics is a 2 minute operation. Only tricky part is to make sure that your careful when reinserting so not to bend a pin.
How often do encoders go bad?

Tom

 

[Huckster79]

If I get my kt76a and encoder working and receritified how big of a gamble would it be to tether a tailbeacon to my old transponder? What’s their reliability as old as it is?

 

[brcase]

The Trig TT21 and TT22 have an excellent reputation in the Glider community. It is about the only ADS-B Solution that works in a glider as all the other solutions are usually either to power hungry to power with a battery or just to large to fit the the small panels and space in many gliders.

And yes you need an acceptable GPS source to make the TT22 ADS-B compliant. Trig supplies these also for both experimental and certified aircraft.

Brian
CFIG/ASEL.

 

[Bell206]

good bad or in between.

Solid replacement equipment. Installed a few compact versions but pre-ADSB. Added a tailbeacon to one last year with no issues however I believe Trig now offers a GPS receiver also. Good support as well.

 

[Llewtrah381]

I have a TT22 and their TY92 radio in my gyro (Experimental, of course) and like both. A friend is an Avionics guy and turned me on to the brand. He speaks well of them.

The TT31 fits the same tray as a KT78A or 76A and I believe is slide-in “plug and play” for straight Mode C but needs some additional wiring and the GPS for Mode S. Nonetheless if you have one of those transponders it could cut install costs.

To me the transponder is one of the least sexy things in the panel. 99% of the time I set one code at the start of the flight and never think much about it. All that to say if I needed panel space for other avionics in my Warrior I wouldn’t hesitate to put a TT22 in a 2 1/4” hole, if that was the most economical approach.

Trig is a Scottish company and they use Midcontinent here in the US for support. I’ve chatted with them at OSH in the past and they’ve been very helpful. I’m comfortable recommending Trig.

 

[Huckster79]

I have a TT22 and their TY92 radio in my gyro (Experimental, of course) and like both. A friend is an Avionics guy and turned me on to the brand. He speaks well of them.

The TT31 fits the same tray as a KT78A or 76A and I believe is slide-in “plug and play” for straight Mode C but needs some additional wiring and the GPS for Mode S. Nonetheless if you have one of those transponders it could cut install costs.

To me the transponder is one of the least sexy things in the panel. 99% of the time I set one code at the start of the flight and never think much about it. All that to say if I needed panel space for other avionics in my Warrior I wouldn’t hesitate to put a TT22 in a 2 1/4” hole, if that was the most economical approach.

Trig is a Scottish company and they use Midcontinent here in the US for support. I’ve chatted with them at OSH in the past and they’ve been very helpful. I’m comfortable recommending Trig.

That all makes sense... I don't need the "room" as it will go in the kt76 spot, and that and a comm is the only avionics my old classic will ever have. I honestly wish I didn't even need a damned trasnponder! I kind of dislike the idea of shiny new led unit all aglow in my classic old bird.... BUT its starting to stink to no be able to go certain places... The Cessna 140 convention this year is in a mode C veil area, I have a club plane located a 10-15min flight or an hour drive but its a class C airport so I have to drive if I need the Big Iron (Cessna 172 lol). 95% of my flying is squawking 1200 at 1000agl to a grass strip, but that 5% sucks...

 

[GRG55]

If I get my kt76a and encoder working and receritified how big of a gamble would it be to tether a tailbeacon to my old transponder? What’s their reliability as old as it is?

The KT76A is a common transponder. I have the same transponder and need to do the ADS-B thing as well.
As I understand, the new transponders are digital. The older ones, like the KT76A, use a cavity tube and that is most often the part that wears out or fails.

Three strategies I looked at:

• Retain the KT76A and install a skybeacon. If the transponder fails just pick up a used one (they seem to go as low as $100 these days) and slide it in. Rinse and repeat as necessary.
• Replace the transponder with a used, but newer digital unit for ADS-B Out only. There's Garmin 330ES units the do the ADS-B Out function just fine that come on the market. I think I saw a post here on PoA a few days ago from a member selling one of these after he did an upgrade to a Garmin 345.
• Go all out and install a Garmin 345 with the combo ADS-B Out and In, so traffic/weather shows up on my GNS-530 screen.

I'm going to go with the 345 in the Aztec. But I think the second approach may be less expensive than even a Skybeacon?

Edit added: Here's the 330ES link. Looks like a good deal for someone wanting a good ADS-B Out only solution.
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/garmin-gtx330es-transponder.130051/

 

[GLDP]

If I get my kt76a and encoder working and receritified how big of a gamble would it be to tether a tailbeacon to my old transponder? What’s their reliability as old as it is?

I think at the end of the day there would probably be around a $1500 difference between an all new system installed vs getting your current system serviceable with a Uavionix beacon.

The first thing you’d probably want to look at is a new encoder if yours is intermittent or out by more than 200ft. Other than that the KT76A and KT76C transponders are very reliable and can be found cheap on eBay for $200-$500. Both are plug and play tray compatible, if one dies swap another one in.

 

[asicer]

Edit added: Here's the 330ES link. Looks like a good deal for someone wanting a good ADS-B Out only solution.

Still needs a GPS position source and I'm not sure the OP wants to drill a fresh hole in the "old classic".

 

[brcase]

That all makes sense... I don't need the "room" as it will go in the kt76 spot, and that and a comm is the only avionics my old classic will ever have. I honestly wish I didn't even need a damned trasnponder! I kind of dislike the idea of shiny new led unit all aglow in my classic old bird.... BUT its starting to stink to no be able to go certain places... The Cessna 140 convention this year is in a mode C veil area, I have a club plane located a 10-15min flight or an hour drive but its a class C airport so I have to drive if I need the Big Iron (Cessna 172 lol). 95% of my flying is squawking 1200 at 1000agl to a grass strip, but that 5% sucks...

Probably less install cost to install the TT31 since it is a slide in replacement. But if concerned about the classic look, you could probably install the TT22, has just the LCD screen, so unless you turn the backlight up won't be "aglow" is also small enough you could probably hide it inside a glove compartment.

Brian

 

[GRG55]

Still needs a GPS position source and I'm not sure the OP wants to drill a fresh hole in the "old classic".

Good point!

 

[ExpressJetter]

Look into a tailbeacon x. It's a mode s transponder and 1090 adsb. Just need a head to control it, but if you get the AV30C that can.

 

[Huckster79]

I think at the end of the day there would probably be around a $1500 difference between an all new system installed vs getting your current system serviceable with a Uavionix beacon.

The first thing you’d probably want to look at is a new encoder if yours is intermittent or out by more than 200ft. Other than that the KT76A and KT76C transponders are very reliable and can be found cheap on eBay for $200-$500. Both are plug and play tray compatible, if one dies swap another one in.

I like that idea!

 

[GRG55]

Look into a tailbeacon x. It's a mode s transponder and 1090 adsb. Just need a head to control it, but if you get the AV30C that can.

Doesn't look like an option for certificated airplanes yet. Their site says "Fall 2020", but you can only pre-order if its not for an experimental category airplane.

 

[Huckster79]

Look into a tailbeacon x. It's a mode s transponder and 1090 adsb. Just need a head to control it, but if you get the AV30C that can.

they look like a great unit, in a different plane id look into that route- but too electronic for my old gal...

Hell I’m so “like the old look” I’m worried I may need a new tach- new cable and seal are ordered but if I gotta get a new tach I’m faced with used or one that looks too new for her

 

[GLDP]

Hell I’m so “like the old look” I’m worried I may need a new tach- new cable and seal are ordered but if I gotta get a new tach I’m faced with used or one that looks too new for her

You could always take the front case off the new tach and “weather it” model railroad style. (Half kidding )

AV30 also has a “vintage look” mode

 

[Huckster79]

You could always take the front case off the new tach and “weather it” model railroad style. (Half kidding )

AV30 also has a “vintage look” mode

now you are tempting me to google that.

and I seen their vintage mode- if I flew new Irish n from like the 60s I’d be all in and use vintage mode

 

[ExpressJetter]

Doesn't look like an option for certificated airplanes yet. Their site says "Fall 2020", but you can only pre-order if its not for an experimental category airplane.

According to them it should be approved any day, they are just waiting on the FAA. All of the paperwork is in

 

[asicer]

According to them it should be approved any day, they are just waiting on the FAA. All of the paperwork is in

We've heard this story before with the AV30C. "Any day" could mean 6-9 months.

 

[ExpressJetter]

We've heard this story before with the AV30C. "Any day" could mean 6-9 months.

It's been any day since the beginning of November. So we are in the 3rd month into this anyday. They project to ship in Feb on many sites. Just offering an option if the OP'er is willing to wait.

 

[asicer]

It's been any day since the beginning of November. So we are in the 3rd month into this anyday. They project to ship in Feb on many sites. Just offering an option if the OP'er is willing to wait.

We've heard that story before with the AV30C as well. Aircraft Spruce had various projected ship dates for a looooong time before it became reality.

 

[farmrjohn]

It's been any day since the beginning of November. So we are in the 3rd month into this anyday. They project to ship in Feb on many sites. Just offering an option if the OP'er is willing to wait.

I would treat any uAvionix approval forecast and expected delivery date with just a little skepticism, the approval for their skyLight to match the skyBeacon has been "pending soon" for a couple of years.

 

[GLDP]

I was waiting for the TailbeaconX to get approved and almost preordered one but after not receiving a reply to a couple of emails regarding dates and some tech questions I decided to spend the money elsewhere.

I do think it’s a nice unit but they could have been nice and done a production run of the AV-10 to control the beacon, keeping costs lower for those of us that don’t want an AV-30/AV-20 (the beta testers got an AV-10). I don’t love the idea of having to scroll through numbers to select a code and they are forcing you to do it on your attitude indicator if you don’t have a compatible EFIS.. why!!??