Traversing ADS-B Airspace Without ADS-B

iamtheari

iamtheari

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I might have to fly a long cross-country (at least 1400 miles) in a plane without ADS-B. It has a mode C transponder and good VHF comm radio. There are some Class C areas and Mode C veils along the route that I would lose a lot of time circumnavigating. Has anyone had good, bad, or indifferent experiences to share on getting authorization from ATC to cross those types of airspace without ADS-B?
 
I have heard anecdotally a perfect success rate...you just need to get it in on time and if it's infrequent not a big deal but if something you plan on regularly a low-cost ADSB solution is optimal.
 
You can fly under the C shelves, which would maybe cut down on some of your circumnavigation. Just don't fly over the top shelf of C (not allowed).
Any mode C veil in B of course is no go. Then again, entering Bravo VFR is hit or miss anyway (for me, that would be never - which is why I always file IFR if I need to go through).

Remember, you also can't fly over 10,000 without ADSB.

skyking3286 said:
Just a reminder to everyone, some of us do this all the time with non-engine driven electrical systems. So eyeballs out.
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Yes, but those wooden and cloth airplanes usually don't fly more than a few hundred feet AGL anyway, and there is nothing for radar to return off of, so no one would know you were there anyway........... (I kid, I kid!):smilewinkgrin:
 
WDD said:
Remember, you also can't fly over 10,000 without ADSB.
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Except when you are below 2500 AGL. But I don't really want to fly this plane up to 10,000 MSL to begin with.
 
A friend of mine files for the exception everytime he comes over. Never a problem.
 
Used ADAPT when flying my plane home after purchase from western Iowa to my home drome that is just inside the O'Hare mode c veil. No issues.
 
Racerx said:
Used ADAPT when flying my plane home after purchase from western Iowa to my home drome that is just inside the O'Hare mode c veil. No issues.
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I’m wondering if the controllers know (or care) if that was filed? What would happen if someone just didn’t equip with ADSB and flew around normally?
 
dans2992 said:
I’m wondering if the controllers know (or care) if that was filed? What would happen if someone just didn’t equip with ADSB and flew around normally?
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Nothing at all... unless, say, you had an issue forcing you to land inside the ADSB-required area, then they might investigate.

If ATC radar sees a weak return moving at Cub speeds, they'll assume it's a non-electric old plane operating legally. A strong return at 200 knots or worse, a squawk with no ADSB, that's different.
 
I’m thinking more of just running a standard Mode C, just no ADSB, but flying in areas where ADSB is required. Does that get noticed (or addressed) in real life?
 
dans2992 said:
Does that get noticed (or addressed) in real life?
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Its my understanding it depends on the ATC equipment and settings. Some can see ADSB data if it is selected on the screen. Whether it gets reported in that manner I do not know personally but there have been people caught without ADSB installed in the wrong airspace and were hit with a violation and fine.
 
Oh my gawd oh my gawd oh my gawd! No adsb! Can you believe it?

Having witnessed some of the political negotiations garmin engaged in to convince lawmakers how necessary it was to make sure planes didn’t fall out of the sky with burgeoning growth in aviation, when the absolute opposite was true, it is simply revolting. We flew without ADSB all the time with Nary and issue, and I live in LA under the mode C veil.

Now Garmin and the lawmakers are ecstatic, and we are left asking what would happen if we fly without almost as if radar and controllers didn’t have to earn their keep.

The good ole days…but, now we have to keep up with the joneses.


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@iamtheari Did you end up getting an authorization through ADAPT for your trip earlier this year? I'm in a similar boat. I'm northeast of NYC airspace, need to go south of it. Since I'm from Canada, ADS-B isn't a thing there yet, so my plane isn't equipped. I could go around the NYC mode C veil, but that would either put me over water too far out or add 30+ minutes to my flight. If I go direct, I would never have to enter class B airspace, I could fly over the class B at 8,500 ft. It would also be super cool to take in the views of NYC from above doing this. But, I would be inside the mode C veil + flying over airspace also requires ADS-B. So, I'm sitting here with the ADAPT form open, tempted to submit it with reason "other" - but then I need to explain in the comment box. What would I write? Save 30 minutes and see NYC from above probably won't be good enough of a reason. If you went through ADAPT to get through rule airspace, what did you enter as your reason?
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
@iamtheari Did you end up getting an authorization through ADAPT for your trip earlier this year? I'm in a similar boat. I'm northeast of NYC airspace, need to go south of it. Since I'm from Canada, ADS-B isn't a thing there yet, so my plane isn't equipped. I could go around the NYC mode C veil, but that would either put me over water too far out or add 30+ minutes to my flight. If I go direct, I would never have to enter class B airspace, I could fly over the class B at 8,500 ft. It would also be super cool to take in the views of NYC from above doing this. But, I would be inside the mode C veil + flying over airspace also requires ADS-B. So, I'm sitting here with the ADAPT form open, tempted to submit it with reason "other" - but then I need to explain in the comment box. What would I write? Save 30 minutes and see NYC from above probably won't be good enough of a reason. If you went through ADAPT to get through rule airspace, what did you enter as your reason?
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Negative, I never ended up going that direction. But hopefully someone can offer some hints on how to accomplish what you're wanting, which to me sounds like a great flight so I hope it works out! Maybe "Fuel/glide range" as the reason would be true but broad enough to cover your situation?
 
For anyone looking for this in the future: I filled out the ADAPT the night before my flight with "other" as the reason, explaining that I do not have ADS-B as it's not yet mandatory in Canada. I further explained that for our planned flight, if we don't go through ADS-B airspace, we would either be exposed to a long over open water flight or would have to go too far west where ceilings were forecast very low + mountainous terrain. I submitted the form and it immediately approved the proposed flight through ADS-B airspace right on the screen and also sent me an email confirmation with approval. I won't use this tool frequently but it's good to know that if there really is no other way besides going through rule airspace, it is available. One of these days, Canada will make up their mind about what type of ADS-B they will require and we'll also all be equipped anyways.
 
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