Traumatic Brain Injury

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TRC1969

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TRC
2012 mild TBI from a fall at work. No loss of consciousness, no seizures ever, no impairment of any kind. Lots of rehabilitation therapy over about a 3 year period. Currently no medication other than BP meds and Testosterone. No effects from my fall at all. I am meeting with AME to discuss prior to Med Express being started. Im am worried sick about this thing. Maybe there is an AME on here somewhere that can give me some hope, or at least tell me what my chances are. I dont want to go LSA but if that is my only choice thats better than nothing....but I really wanted the SR 22...such a cool machine..any thoughts are appreciated.
 
TRC1969 said:
2012 mild TBI from a fall at work. No loss of consciousness, no seizures ever, no impairment of any kind. Lots of rehabilitation therapy over about a 3 year period. Currently no medication other than BP meds and Testosterone. No effects from my fall at all. I am meeting with AME to discuss prior to Med Express being started. Im am worried sick about this thing. Maybe there is an AME on here somewhere that can give me some hope, or at least tell me what my chances are. I dont want to go LSA but if that is my only choice thats better than nothing....but I really wanted the SR 22...such a cool machine..any thoughts are appreciated.
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You're using prepositional phrases as if they are complete sentences with punctuation and all. It might be worse than you thought.

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The fact that there was "No loss of consciousness, no seizures ever, no impairment of any kind" makes me question how they came to a conclusion of TBI?
 
p1l0t said:
You're using prepositional phrases as if they are complete sentences with punctuation and all. It might be worse than you thought.

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So most all millennials have had a TBI?

Dr Bruce will surely chime in soon enough
 
I had a motorcycle accident at Bonneville in 1994 that resulted in a TBI with loss of consciousness and lost the sight in my left eye.

I was actually declared dead.

In my exit interview at the hospital I was told I would never stand unassisted, speak in complete sentences or perform any complex tasks. I was told to get used to it because brain cells don’t grow back.

I was not a pilot at the time of my accident.

After two years, a lot of paperwork and poorly defined neurological tests I learned to fly, took a demonstrated ability medical check ride and now fly with a statement of demonstrated ability and a class three medical.

I took a second demonstrated ability medical check ride so I could get a class II medical.

I am a commercial pilot and certificated flight instructor.
 
Yea I agree. Mine was classified as mild. Closed head injury is another term they used along with post concussive syndrome. Fancy ways of saying knocked your brains out!
p1l0t said:
You're using prepositional phrases as if they are complete sentences with punctuation and all. It might be worse than you thought.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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Thanks for the valuable input. Ill work on my
Grammar...
 
Vance Breese said:
I had a motorcycle accident at Bonneville in 1994 that resulted in a TBI with loss of consciousness and lost the sight in my left eye.

I was actually declared dead.

In my exit interview at the hospital I was told I would never stand unassisted, speak in complete sentences or perform any complex tasks. I was told to get used to it because brain cells don’t grow back.

I was not a pilot at the time of my accident.

After two years, a lot of paperwork and poorly defined neurological tests I learned to fly, took a demonstrated ability medical check ride and now fly with a statement of demonstrated ability and a class three medical.

I took a second demonstrated ability medical check ride so I could get a class II medical.

I am a commercial pilot and certificated flight instructor.[/QUOT


Thanks. That is an encouraging story. I was at no time anywhere near the condition you were in. It may take a couple of extra steps but I am confident things will work out for me. The AME is the one the flight school always uses. You actually fly to the appointment and then fly back. You have made my day much better. I couldn't sleep last night worried about this whole process. After I meet with the AME for my pre appointment I will update this thread so those that are interested can see how it turned out. And I will use proper grammar!
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Thanks. That is an encouraging story. I was at no time anywhere near the condition you were in. It may take a couple of extra steps but I am confident things will work out for me. The AME is the one the flight school always uses. You actually fly to the appointment and then fly back. You have made my day much better. I couldn't sleep last night worried about this whole process. After I meet with the AME for my pre appointment I will update this thread so those that are interested can see how it turned out. And I will use proper grammar!
 
@TRC1969 ... to ensure you do not jeopardize any future flight privileges, make that first meeting with that AME is a consultation and not the “real” exam. The purpose of the visit needs to be determining if you can obtain a medical certificate and what documentation is needed from other medical providers in order to get the certificate.

Also interview that AME to see if she or he is willing to be your advocate through the entire process including when things get difficult. Not all are willing to put forth additional effort. The really good AME’s will. And for challenging cases like yours, you want one who will.
 
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TRC1969 said:
Thanks. That is an encouraging story. I was at no time anywhere near the condition you were in. It may take a couple of extra steps but I am confident things will work out for me. The AME is the one the flight school always uses. You actually fly to the appointment and then fly back. You have made my day much better. I couldn't sleep last night worried about this whole process. After I meet with the AME for my pre appointment I will update this thread so those that are interested can see how it turned out. And I will use proper grammar!
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Good luck on you aviation adventure.

I feel there is an advantage with going to an AME who is an advocate.

I was fortunate to know Bob Hoover from childhood through my test pilot father and he encouraged me to just keep plugging away and don’t get caught up in the setbacks.

Bob had his own challenges with his medical.

I felt the FAA was trying to do a good job and the western region surgeon went to great lengths for me.

The demonstrated ability medical check ride had some clever ways to measure my ability to multitask and compliance.

Apparently people with TBIs tend to be to compliant and just follow directions. That is not what the FAA wants in a pilot.

The designated pilot examiner for my CFI practical test spent eleven and a half hours of oral before failing me the first time.

He had stated several times that I could never be a flight instructor with my TBI and being blind in one eye.

The second time around the same DPE passed me after five hours of oral and a one hour check ride despite what I felt was some poor aviation decision making about my check ride. There was a thunderstorm five miles away and we did the entire check ride over the class D airport because of low ceilings in every direction.
 
Vance Breese said:
Good luck on you aviation adventure.

I feel there is an advantage with going to an AME who is an advocate.

I was fortunate to know Bob Hoover from childhood through my test pilot father and he encouraged me to just keep plugging away and don’t get caught up in the setbacks.

Bob had his own challenges with his medical.

I felt the FAA was trying to do a good job and the western region surgeon went to great lengths for me.

The demonstrated ability medical check ride had some clever ways to measure my ability to multitask and compliance.

Apparently people with TBIs tend to be to compliant and just follow directions. That is not what the FAA wants in a pilot.

The designated pilot examiner for my CFI practical test spent eleven and a half hours of oral before failing me the first time.

He had stated several times that I could never be a flight instructor with my TBI and being blind in one eye.

The second time around the same DPE passed me after five hours of oral and a one hour check ride despite what I felt was some poor aviation decision making about my check ride. There was a thunderstorm five miles away and we did the entire check ride over the class D airport because of low ceilings in every direction.
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I guess I never really thought about the medical side of things. When I started researching and finally made me decision the medical was a surprise. I understand and agree all pilots must be healthy, however the medical process should not be so intimidating. I am pretty confident from what I have read I will get my medical but it seems that somebody somewhere would recognize that the current process is so scary it leads to a culture of trying to bend the truth and the justify it in your own head. I am only trying to fly for fun but what about the pilot who flies to provides for his family. Totally different level of pressure.
 
TRC1969 said:
... it seems that somebody somewhere would recognize that the current process is so scary it leads to a culture of trying to bend the truth and the justify it in your own head.
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The adage "We're not happy until you're not happy" seems to be rightly applied to the FAA medical process. But understand that they are tasked with maintaining safety for the non-flying public and they take that seriously. The fact that they appear to go about it in a manner that isn't very friendly, as you & I see it, makes no difference to them at all. They have no incentive to do anything differently as the current process appears to be sufficient.

Having experience in both state & federal government bureaucracies I have found that they are very different than any successful business model I've been exposed to. Recently at work we have had a change from a "sunshine & lollipops" management system where no one seemed to be minding the store to a "Pharaoh" system that demands, "More bricks. no straw" from the workers using the constant threat of write-ups and terminations.

Great management seems to be a lost art but lest I get too political, I'll digress ...
 
This is the Full FAA neurocognitive evaluation, in which you need to outscore the bottom 15th percentile of like decile aged aviators. No, a community psychologist can't do this because he/she doesn't go to FAA class, and won't have access to the FAA's aviator norms.

If you don't want to endanger LSA privileges with a denial do NOT go for a flight physical until you have an affirmative study.

B
 
That’s sounds like a solid piece of advice. Makes sense and sounds like it will have a lot of weight behind it. Will my AME be able to point me in the direction to get that eval taken care of? I have a pre exam meeting scheduled.
 
Is your AME on the HIMS list (psychiatry trained)? There is a list. Link at the very bottom of the “Find An AME” page at www.FAA.gov.

Even if not, he might, but no matter what, decline “let’s do an exam and wait for instructions”. If he sez that......head for the door,and find a HIMS AME...he has all the tools.
 
If you reach a dead end call Dr. Rick Roth (pm me for ph #). Got my medical back for me. He’s on the FAA’s Medical Board. Knows all the decision-makers, knows all the ways to get through The System.
 
Interesting info on here and something I’ve wondered about from time to time. After my TBI I decided LSA was good enough for me. I, personally, had no interest in jumping through the FAAs hoops.
 
I am starting to think LSA may be my best option. I feel like LSA rules and limitations will be changing soon enough anyway. The Czech Sport Cruiser is a nice machine. Not the SR 22 but it may have to do.
 
I am out right now due to a TBI in 2019. I would like to say that I could offer you advice from my perspective, given I at least know what I will need to submit to the FAA. Our cases are vastly different though.

Given the details you have provided, it should not be that much of an issue. I am sure that some things will need to be provided, but I would not look at this as a daunting task at all.
 
I certainly hope that is the case. The FAA nuero eval will be no problem at all. I am good. I am currently gathering all medical records for my AME to evaluate prior to anything. I have NOT done my 8500-8 and will not until he looks things over and gives me advice on how to proceed. I am sure the neuro eval will have to be done. I really hate all this cause I am so excited to get started but when it’s over I won’t have to worry about the FAA. Sorry to hear about your TBI. My symptoms really only lasted a few days and then mostly headaches. Good luck.
 
I would like to get input from someone that has taken the Neurological evaluation.
 
If you search around, there are some threads on the eval. There is no prep for it though really. It's just a show up and do your best kind of deal. I will be taking mine at some point this summer. From doctors that I have consulted with, it is important that you find someone that is experienced in giving these tests and writing the reports for the FAA. So, this may require travel depending on where you are located.


Search cog (nitive) screening to find what you are looking for...
 
It will be a road trip for sure. I will meet with my AME first and kind of go from there. I will choose wisely. There is so much information on this forum. It’s a wealth of knowledge.
 
My neurologist felt the FAA did not quantify what they were looking for well and I ended up taking two complete tests and several abbreviated tests.

Perhaps they have gotten better.

I learned a lot about the effects of a TBI and it gave me some tools to deal with it.

If you don’t have any cognitive issues from your TBI there should not be any problems with the testing. I do have issues and the testing helped me find work arounds.

For example I am in the ninth percentile for unrelated short term memory so I use check lists more than most and have fill in the blanks radio call sheets on my kneeboard.

Sport Pilot was not an option at the time so I had fewer decisions to make.

I found all the people at the FAA that I worked with to be thoughtful and I feel they were trying to help me and keep the public safe at the same time.

Hopefully you will not need a demonstrated ability check ride as that was the most challenging part of the odyssey.

The instructions to the designated pilot examiner were extensive and detailed.
 
I agree the FAA is just doing what we all really want them to do. When it hits a little close to home it’s hard to not get aggravated. My long and short term memory are actually very good, hand eye coordination, balance, everything is as it always was. I really wasnt that bad at all. My hobby is banjo playing and that takes quite a bit of concentration. I’m actually kind of interested to see what an eval would show. I’m mean I would skip it if I could but since I probably won’t be able to let’s just see.
 
TRC1969 said:
I agree the FAA is just doing what we all really want them to do. When it hits a little close to home it’s hard to not get aggravated. My long and short term memory are actually very good, hand eye coordination, balance, everything is as it always was. I really wasnt that bad at all. My hobby is banjo playing and that takes quite a bit of concentration. I’m actually kind of interested to see what an eval would show. I’m mean I would skip it if I could but since I probably won’t be able to let’s just see.
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They give you hoops, you jump through the hoops, sometimes they give you more hoops, you jump through the hoops. It's only time and money.

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bbchien said:
This is the Full FAA neurocognitive evaluation, in which you need to outscore the bottom 15th percentile of like decile aged aviators. No, a community psychologist can't do this because he/she doesn't go to FAA class, and won't have access to the FAA's aviator norms.

If you don't want to endanger LSA privileges with a denial do NOT go for a flight physical until you have an affirmative study.

B
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bbchien said:
Is your AME on the HIMS list (psychiatry trained)? There is a list. Link at the very bottom of the “Find An AME” page at www.FAA.gov.

Even if not, he might, but no matter what, decline “let’s do an exam and wait for instructions”. If he sez that......head for the door,and find a HIMS AME...he has all the tools.
Click to expand...


Should I continue with my ground school program. I have stopped this week when I found out my medical is going to be difficult. My thought is does it show the AME that I am capable and don't have any cognitive issues with ground school knocked out? Or does that matter at all. My CFI and I were going to fly to the AME and have him do the exam. (Now pre exam) Should I do that as well. The flight up and back were actually going to be hours in the seat for me as a lesson. Does any of that matter. I understand I will have to take the neuro cog eval regardless but will continuing and subsequently finishing ground school and flying help, hurt, or not matter at all?
 
Also my AME is not HIMS. Should I completely ditch him and choose one that is on the list. The flight school use this guy for everyone.
 
Everyone is not you. If you had 3 years of rehab, the closed head injury was probably not trivial. Find a HIMS AME who will run you through the gauntlet and get you the evaluations, WITHOUT doing a flight physical (on record). The garden variety AME doesn’t do many of these.....has no specific training for this....
 
In my opinion my involvement with aviation has helped me more than any thing ese in my life to quantify and manage the results of brain injury.

Many of the effects are subtle; some less subtle.
 
Any suggestions for AME that is fully equipped to handle my situation? If that is something we can post on a public forum.
 
My thoughts exactly, i didn't know if it was ethical. Thanks
 
Dr. Bruce has chimed in a few times. His advice is invaluable. OP, you should hire him to walk you through this process, and follow his advice TO THE LETTER. He, or someone else who specializes in difficult medical certification, is your best bet. www.aeromedicaldoc.com.
 
I have already started the process with B. I think he will be able to help me to achieve the best outcome possible. My current cognitive abilities are really not the issue its just my medical record concerning my injury that looks like crap. Litigation can create some very large medical files that really go overboard sometimes. Oh well it is what it is. I am sure I will have the neuro cog eval and I can assure there is no reason I shouldn't blow it out of the water. Unless Im just not as sharp as I think I am....I feel it will work out fine and if not Dr B will protect my LSA aspirations. The LSA rules will be changing shortly anyway. Just a bummer it always has to be VFR. I really would like to be able to fly from Ky to Fl weekly and LSA might make that a little difficult.
 
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