Transition across Burbank airspace

J

James Darren

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Display name:
James Darren
Hi all,

When you transition across the Burbank class C airspace from Whiteman WHP, is it usually best to overfly the Burbank airport when heading towards the SFRA (Santa Monica)? Will Burbank ATC give you a specific path to fly?

And the same question again, except this time from El Monte airport?...
 
I transition through Van Nuys. Whiteman can set you up with a squawk code you can use all the way so they are following you. They will want you to stay East of the 405. Also consider MiniRoute where you are being followed by a controller the whole time watching your back. SFRules is a free for all.

Set up your radios in advance:

KWHP 135
KVNY 120.2
KSMO 120.1
KLAX 119.8
KHHR 121.1 (they will hand you off to flight following)

GPS Routing
KWHP KVNY (for reference only...follow their instructions) KSMO VPLSR

VOR
128 Radial from SMO

(Cross check all this with current charts)
 
Departing WHiteman to the SFRA:

When contacting tower for departure at hold short line, you can let them know you're planning on transitioning the Van Nuys airspace. The may or may not give you a squawk code but they will probably give you a right downwind on 12 and tell your pretty early on to contact Van Nuys tower.

Upon contacting Van Nuys tower and asking for the southbound transition to the Sepulveda Pass, you will probably be at the 118/5 Fwy interchange. They will most likely ask you to stay just EAST of the 405 fwy at 1800feet. Be on the lookout for opposing traffic just WEST of the freeway which is pattern traffic for 16L/34R. Sometimes those guys make a late crosswind turn and end up over the 405 or even east of it...

They'll let you know when you can change freqs once over the Sepulveda Pass.

Then you can switch to SFRA frequencies and self announce position, etc. Don't forget to squawk 1201 for SFRA.

Check the charts for most recent info on the SFRA transition over LAX if this is the route you're planning.

From El Monte, I would contact Socal Appch/Departure and request Flight following and let them know you have a VFR request. Then let them know the usual info when they ask you to say request. They will hand you off and manage the transition through Burbank, giving you VFR boundaries, altitudes, and all frequencies. I think one time I got nervous that they did not hand me off to Burbank tower as I was getting close to their airspace and I asked if kind of asked/reminded them if I was ok for the transition. Not sure if this is the proper thing to do....

Also when departing El Monte watch the close Class B on your left if you're heading to Burbank....
 
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I know this doesn't address your question, but I have flown a number of times from Palm Springs to Whiteman. Last Wednesday was the first time center handed me off to Burbank tower, not Whiteman. Unfortunately they did so when I was directly behind Mt Verdugo, no contact for a few minutes. Not a big deal but I though it a waste of time.
 
Holy crap.... I fly out there all the time, but IFR in a jet.
I have the utmost respect for those of you who do this VFR with the level of safety and professionalism that I see here. I used to work with guys who did the same thing in NYC.

Good form!
 
VWGhiaBob said:
I Also consider MiniRoute where you are being followed by a controller the whole time watching your back. SFRules is a free for all.
Click to expand...

I never understood why pilots opt for the SFRA over the Mini Route if you are on FF. Mini route you are under ATC contol in Bravo...SFRA is is just frequency change approved and "good luck!"...now if you don't wanna talk to ATC, sure go SFRA but for the OP, pick up FF and let ATC help ya through the area.
 
1) I guess it's more fun to fly 3500' than 5500' (isn't that the altitude for mini route?)

2) departing whp or VNY Atc is going to keep you under Burbank class C below 3000 until after sepulveda pass, at which time you'd have to circle and climb to get to mini route altitude. Seems easier to just stay low and transition the sfra. If you're coming in from farther north or south I would definitely get FF and use the mini route.
 
Mini Route is 2500'

You are thinking of the Coastal Route which is 5500'/6500'

SFRA is 3500'/4500'
 
Just looking closer at the mini route. Anyone done it here? sMO tower coordinates you through? I assume if you're already on flight following they will coordinate or hand you off to SMO? Does SMO hand you off to LAX tower? I would just be worried about being able to contact lax in time for the transition once handed off from SMO. There's not a lot of distance before entering class B and I'm sure lax tower freq is super busy.
 
FlyingMonkey said:
Just looking closer at the mini route. Anyone done it here? sMO tower coordinates you through? I assume if you're already on flight following they will coordinate or hand you off to SMO? Does SMO hand you off to LAX tower? I would just be worried about being able to contact lax in time for the transition once handed off from SMO. There's not a lot of distance before entering class B and I'm sure lax tower freq is super busy.
Click to expand...

From the controller's handbook:

2−1−16. SURFACE AREAS

a. Coordinate with the appropriate nonapproach
control tower on an individual aircraft basis before
issuing a clearance which would require flight within
a surface area for which the tower has responsibility
unless otherwise specified in a letter of agreement.

REFERENCE−
FAAO JO 7210.3, Para 4−3−1, Letters of Agreement.
14 CFR Section 91.127, Operating on or in the Vicinity of an Airport
in Class E Airspace.
P/CG Term− Surface Area.
b. Coordinate with the appropriate control tower
for transit authorization when you are providing radar
traffic advisory service to an aircraft that will enter
another facility’s airspace.
NOTE−
The pilot is not expected to obtain his/her own
authorization through each area when in contact with a
radar facility.


Bob Gardner
SAY AGAIN, PLEASE
 
FlyingMonkey said:
Just looking closer at the mini route. Anyone done it here? sMO tower coordinates you through? I assume if you're already on flight following they will coordinate or hand you off to SMO? Does SMO hand you off to LAX tower? I would just be worried about being able to contact lax in time for the transition once handed off from SMO. There's not a lot of distance before entering class B and I'm sure lax tower freq is super busy.
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Yes, have done it several times. Easiest way is to establish FF with approach BEFORE you contact SMO or HHR tower. That will make the hand off MUCH easier. All of the people that I have ever heard denied into Bravo just show up and knock on the door during a busy time. Never heard anyone on FF ahead of time denied Bravo clearance.

If not on FF, then you have to contact SMO or HHR tower depending on direction and they will then coordinate Bravo clearance and handoffs through LAX tower. There is no situation where you would ever contact LAX tower on your own...and I would be willing to say ANY Bravo tower. Either approach for a Bravo transition on one of the other routes or SMO/HHR tower for mini route as instructed by the TAC, but establishing FF with approach well ahead of time is the way to go.

There are instructions for all the routes in the LAX TAC.

Only issue I have ever had was flying northbound and SMO terminating FF once I was clear of Bravo and their airspace and was unable to hand me off to So Cal for some reason and I had to reestablish with them directly.
 
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If you're on FF will they hand you off to SMO and then SMO hand off to Lax or do you stay with them all the way through? I've had it both ways through Burbank and even transitioning van nuys. Sometimes FF will pass me off to Burbank and sometimes they manage it. What I'm getting at is if FF or SMO says contact lax tower and you switch over there's not a lot of time to establish contact and clearance before you're into the class B.
 
FlyingMonkey said:
If you're on FF will they hand you off to SMO and then SMO hand off to Lax or do you stay with them all the way through?
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Answer is yes...I have had it both ways, sometimes contacting LAX, sometimes never talking to LAX...but it does not matter. Your Bravo clearance will not come from LAX tower. That is why I recommend establishing FF with approach ahead of time. If they know your intentions, SO Cal will coordinate the transition and issue the Bravo Clearance. If you just call up SMO, they will coordinate and issue the Clearance, but if you catch them at a busy time it is easy to get denied as they essentially have to put you on FF and enter in all the data themselves as opposed to So Cal who you can do it with more time to spare.
 
No problem...I am a BIG advocate of the LAX VFR transitions. They are not that scary once you understand them and make flying on the LA basin MUCH easier in my opinion rather than trying to doge the airspace.

I have ducked around west of the LAX Bravo several times and that seemed like MUCH more work and traffic conflicts as opposed to blazin right though Bravo on one of the published routes.
 
Hey socal flyers who was your DPE for your PPL? Looking at the options for upcoming check ride.
 
FlyingMonkey said:
Hey socal flyers who was your DPE for your PPL? Looking at the options for upcoming check ride.
Click to expand...

Too bad Betty Faux isn't around anymore, checkrides with her were a pleasure and you ended up drinking from a firehose when she went into " instructor mode". If Reed is still a DPE, he was a good guy and gave a fair ride.
 
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