Traffic call out scenario...

[fiveoboy01]

You're flying along and the controller advises "traffic, 2 o'clock, 5 miles, southbound". You're holding a 20 degree correction due to a right crosswind.

Where do you look in relation to the nose of the airplane?

 

[MauleSkinner]

60 degrees right of your ground track, so 40 degrees right of your nose.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

2 o'clock = to the right, right crosswind turns you towards the traffic, so it should be close to 12 o'clock or 1 o'clock , assuming I thought this out correctly.

ATC gives the direction to look based on your ground track assuming no wind.

 

[bobmrg]

The controller does not know about the wind correction angle. only your track over the ground. AIM 4-1-15 has illustrations.

Bob Gardner

 

[Lachlan]

Since 12 o'clock is straight ahead at zero degrees, and 3 o'clock would be 90 degrees, it would follow that 2 o'clock would be 60 degrees off your nose. A right wind correction of 20 degrees would have you pointed toward the traffic, so looking 40 degrees to the right of the nose in this case should have you scanning the right area of sky. On the other hand, you didn't tell us your magnetic heading, so the southbound traffic could be crossing from left to right if you were tracking east, or on a converging course if you were flying northerly, for example. Further, the tower didn't say at what altitude the traffic was flying, so spotting it at all might be impossible, especially at 5 miles. Sooooo...... either way, about 40 degrees to the right of your nose, somewhere between Heaven and Hell, there's another aircraft. And it's southbound.

 

[Unit74]

It would help if we knew your heading. You only gave us half the known values to solve for Y.

 

[Brad Z]

To me, any traffic callout based on clock hands gets two hours on either side. A callout at 2 o'clock (relative bearing 060) would cause me to look from my 12 o'clock. (Relative bearing 000) to my 4 o'clock (relative bearing 120). Based on the direction of the traffic I would expand my view accordingly.

 

[Gucci Pilot]

To me, any traffic callout based on clock hands gets two hours on either side. A callout at 2 o'clock (relative bearing 060) would cause me to look from my 12 o'clock. (Relative bearing 000) to my 4 o'clock (relative bearing 120). Based on the direction of the traffic I would expand my view accordingly.

This. Both of you are moving. No need to be precise. Should have at least roughly a 90 degree scan in the general direction.

 

[FastEddieB]

It would help if we knew your heading. You only gave us half the known values to solve for Y.

Are you sure?

I think the answer to his question - already given - is heading independent.

Except for the "southbound" part, but I took the question as meaning where to look initially.

 

[BigBadLou]

Let's see. We already have a few correct answers.
Why don't we continue the fight over who's right or wrong through a few pages and see where it gets us. Hopefully locked after about a dozen personal attacks. PoA to the rescue!!

 

[JHW]

I'd start with step one: look out the window, the thing that's above the ipad and garmin G19000

 

[Brad Z]

Are you sure?

I think the answer to his question - already given - is heading independent.

Except for the "southbound" part, but I took the question as meaning where to look initially.

The direction of flight to me is useful since controllers seem to think I have superhuman vision and can spot a cirrus from 10 miles away. Since it's undoubtedly moved by the time I do spot it, it's helpful to know what direction to expand my scan. For example, if I'm heading north, and ATC calls for traffic 12 o'clock 10 miles southwest bound, I'm not going to be looking for him under the right wing (at least not for that traffic anyway).

I'd start with step one: look out the window, the thing that's above the ipad and garmin G19000

good one

 

[TomRV4]

I was listening to LiveATC a couple of days ago, and just scrolling through a few approach control frequencies out west. A couple of them were calling out traffic using: "traffic northeast of your position, west of your position" etc.

That's the first time I'd heard those type of callouts, instead of the typical 2 o'clock, 9 o'clock etc. Is this becoming more prevalent? Is it a good thing considering the mental gymnastics that are necessary if you have a large crosswind component and using the 'clock' method?

Tom

 

[Caramon13]

That's a question pretty much right out the IFR written test or King prep. Those callouts are helpful, but really sometimes I don't know why they do it.

I've been at 5000 feet and I get a callout for traffic at 1000 feet 8 miles away. My eyesight is good, but it's not THAT good. I've also gotten callouts for traffic at my 9 o'clock when the traffic was passing off my 3 o'clock.

They are helpful sometimes, I always look, but that doesn't mean I'm going to see them.

 

[Captain]

It's similar to looking out the window for the runway. ATC will always tell you the runway is at 12:00 if you're tracking the centerline. Only you know you have a 20 deg wind correction and you need to look away from the wind to see the runway.

 

[Bob Noel]

I look at 2 o'clock to my track. And I look at 10 o'clock too (every once in a while the controller will get it backwards, rare, but it doesn't hurt to look there too).

 

[orange]

In order for southbound traffic at your 2 o'clock traffic to be a factor, you would need to be tracking north or west.

 

[mscard88]

I look at 2 o'clock to my track. And I look at 10 o'clock too (every once in a while the controller will get it backwards, rare, but it doesn't hurt to look there too).

Sometimes a trainee (or even a rated ctlr lol) will do that, issue 2 when it's actually at 10 o'clock. When I worked radar I actually saw some controllers actually turn/twist on their chair to issue traffic! Always hilarious to see that.

Remember, issuing traffic is a secondary function for controllers as separation of IFR traffic is their #1 job. You might see a plane go by you and the controller didn't issue that traffic because their workload prevented them from doing so. Also some planes don't have altitude reporting so the controller doesn't the altitude of the traffic, although the controller should state "altitude unknown".