Track car daily driver recommendations

scottfromboston said:
Ha. To be clear, my wife daily-drove an N-B for several years (and winters!). Similar experiences, but I'm hesitant to recommend one as a primary daily unless (like we did) you have access to something else, in our case an Impreza wagon.
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In our case, we also have a crown vic. (I think she just likes to drive the Miata and uses shopping as an excuse lol)
 
Pinecone said:
Just check the oil often and do not run it the slightest bit low.

One weekend at the track there were at least 2 WRXs that blew engines.
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Having owned a WRX and other Imprezas, I don't consider them 250k mile cars, particularly if there is track use in the mix.
 
bradg33 said:
I'm not a track pro by any stretch of the imagination, but I've tracked a Focus ST, a C7 Corvette I owned a few years ago, a CTS-V wagon, and my Dodge Viper ('08, 4th gen). The Focus ST was by far the most fun on the track. Very stable, corned nicely, decent acceleration. At that time, a buddy ran with me in his C6 Z06. I caught him in nearly every corner (though he left me in the dust in the straights). Of the high-horsepower cars, the CTS-V is the tamest (at 560hp), but that's not saying much. My Vette was a base automatic Stingray and it struggled with transmission temp. It also felt very sketchy in corners (though much of that is likely my inexperience).

The Viper is absolutely terrifying to drive on the track (and, really, on the road). It's 600hp and just a raw, analog car. It 100% wants to kill you at every opportunity. Even the tiniest of mistakes will result in it swapping ends. But it's hard to beat the feeling (and sound) of getting it pointed in the right direction in a straight and stomping it. It also handles chicanes very well, but hard corners are not for the faint of heart (or inexperience), so I take it pretty easy.

But I'm similarly casually shopping for a new DD that I can track. I want something with reasonable hauling space (need to put my 120lb Neapolitan Mastiff in the back). Budget is $30-40k. I've narrowed my shopping list to the Golf R (AWD, reasonable power, hatch, well-appointed), a Civic Type R (hatch, reasonable space) and a GR Corolla (hard to find, probably/definitely above budget). I'll likely end up with a Golf R, since the AWD makes it a little more winter friendly.

Keep in mind that as the car gets more expensive, the desire/need for track day insurance rises. I can tell you that track day insurance on my Viper runs about $400 per event on an $80k value. So it's not inconsequential on a per-track-day basis.
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Two friends are tracking both a daily-driver ST and the other, a C7 GS Corvette. The ST seems to be a good solution but as a daily, it's tight inside.

The 'Vette is basically a dedicated track car, but the operating costs are obscene - he thinks he's spending about 3000-3500 for a 3-day event on top of track fees (insurance, tires, brakes).
 
kaiser said:
Audi: Sport Quattro (if money is meaningless), RS2 or RS6 if money holds some meaning.
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RS2 porsche/audi wagon? would be a crime to track one, IMO. Rare.

I didn't see where the OP specified manual, but the RS3 could be a fun option..
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I'm gonna get some crap for this, but here goes. ...
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OK, I'll bite. Nothing personal, just different preferences.

flyingcheesehead said:
... Tesla Model S Plaid. Or if that's too expensive, a Model 3 performance, though if you really need the hatchback, a Model Y performance will do. 1.99, 3.1, or 3.5 second 0-60 times, respectively. ...
People think of Teslas as one-trick ponies that just accelerate quickly, but what I didn't appreciate until I owned one is that they corner like crazy too, due to the CG being about six inches off the ground....
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The problem is all that mass. I was lucky enough to drive a Porsche Taycan Turbo S around the local track. Similar if not faster than the Teslas. Compared to the 911 and 718 that we also drove, the Taycan felt like driving a train. It held the road well, and had good acceleration, but you could really feel the amount of mass you were hauling around, even though the CG was low. I found it the least engaging of the cars with zero road feel. The 911 and 718 felt much lighter, more agile and responsive, more fun and engaging to drive.

There really is something special about the road feel and engagement driving lightweight cars. It doesn't always show up in the numbers. Maybe it is a personal thing.
 
scottfromboston said:
RS2 porsche/audi wagon? would be a crime to track one, IMO. Rare.

I didn't see where the OP specified manual, but the RS3 could be a fun option..
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All were Audi options.

I'm not a fan of the post-2012 (Type "8V") platform of the A3/S3, of which the RS3 is a derivative. In fact, I think the best Audi platforms are the older ones.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I'm gonna get some crap for this, but here goes.

Tesla Model S Plaid. Or if that's too expensive, a Model 3 performance, though if you really need the hatchback, a Model Y performance will do. 1.99, 3.1, or 3.5 second 0-60 times, respectively.

All of the above have "track mode" which does some cool performance and fun enhancing stuff. (That article talks about the Model 3 Performance, but Track Mode is now available on the Y Performance and Plaid S as well.) They've now got a new version of Track Mode that also has lateral and longitudinal G meters, video and telemetry logging, lap timers, and some more manual control.

People think of Teslas as one-trick ponies that just accelerate quickly, but what I didn't appreciate until I owned one is that they corner like crazy too, due to the CG being about six inches off the ground. I can whip mine around traffic circles at 40+ mph with no body roll. All of the cool stuff they do with track mode like torque vectoring is icing on the cake.

If you want to make noise, get one of the many other good recommendations in this thread. If you want some extreme fun in something that also makes a fine grocery-getter (or tool carrier), get one of the performance Teslas.
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I would be surprised if you could get through an entire track session without it going into battery protection mode. Teslas are quick, no doubt about it. However, they are more suited to drag racing than circuit events. Trying to run all-out for 10-15 minutes is going to be almost impossible. Then you have the issue of how to get batteries recharged in time for the next session.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I would be surprised if you could get through an entire track session without it going into battery protection mode. Teslas are quick, no doubt about it. However, they are more suited to drag racing than circuit events. Trying to run all-out for 10-15 minutes is going to be almost impossible. Then you have the issue of how to get batteries recharged in time for the next session.
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I know there are at least a couple being tracked and I believe they are having some success with it. What I don't know is how "stock" they are because I really haven't been paying close attention to it.

Regardless, while some aspects of the Tesla may be good in the performance department it is one of the last cars I'd have a desire to own if the goal is a DD/track car.
 
I have a 350Z that would probably work. It is a fun car with more room that a Corvette but lower HP.
 
MRC01 said:
OK, I'll bite...


The problem is all that mass. I was lucky enough to drive a Porsche Taycan Turbo S around the local track. Similar if not faster than the Teslas...

There really is something special about the road feel and engagement driving lightweight cars. It doesn't always show up in the numbers. Maybe it is a personal thing.
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2022 Porsche Taycan Turbo S -- 5170 pounds

2022 Tesla Model S plaid -- 4993 pounds

2006 Toyota Tundra Double Cab 4WD -- 4965 pounds

Miata NB -- 2183 pounds


Yup.
 
mondtster said:
I know there are at least a couple being tracked and I believe they are having some success with it. What I don't know is how "stock" they are because I really haven't been paying close attention to it.

Regardless, while some aspects of the Tesla may be good in the performance department it is one of the last cars I'd have a desire to own if the goal is a DD/track car.
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I'd imagine if you could increase cooling to the motors and maybe get around some of the temperature safeguards it would do well. The Model S Plaid with their Track Package ran something like a 7.5 minute trip around the Ring, and was supposedly unmodified from the showroom floor. It's definitely got the capability, but I'm not sure how it would have fared with a second consecutive trip around the Ring.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I would be surprised if you could get through an entire track session without it going into battery protection mode. Teslas are quick, no doubt about it. However, they are more suited to drag racing than circuit events. Trying to run all-out for 10-15 minutes is going to be almost impossible. Then you have the issue of how to get batteries recharged in time for the next session.
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Didnt the Plaid just re-take the record for the fastest car around the 'Ring?
 
charheep said:
Didnt the Plaid just re-take the record for the fastest car around the 'Ring?
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Not fastest car, just fastest EV. It's still about a minute per lap slower than the fastest "production" car (the AMG ONE).
 
kaiser said:
All were Audi options.

I'm not a fan of the post-2012 (Type "8V") platform of the A3/S3, of which the RS3 is a derivative. In fact, I think the best Audi platforms are the older ones.
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B5 RS4 :)
 
It HAS to be manual, right? I can’t imagine automatic would be fun - unless paddle shifters and manual-automatic mode? Even still..
 
charheep said:
Didnt the Plaid just re-take the record for the fastest car around the 'Ring?
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It did get the EV record over the recent Porsche Taycan, but I do wonder if the Model S Plaid could make two consecutive laps without the motor/battery overheat safegaurds kicking in. Most of the open track days I've been around have 4 or 5 15-minute sessions you can participate in during the day, so running hard for 15-minutes may be pushing up against what a Tesla can muster continuously, saying nothing of the recharging needs in between sessions.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
It HAS to be manual, right? I can’t imagine automatic would be fun - unless paddle shifters and manual-automatic mode? Even still..
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Nobody is a more die hard manual transmission person than I am.

With that said, it really depends on the car you're driving and the transmission. My wife's Alfa has a slushbox ZF 8HP75 (I think, I know it's an 8-speed ZF). It's still a slushbox, but it has paddle shifters, a manual mode that you can either be in full time or leave it in automatic and let it handle some of the shifting with additional "recommendations", etc. It would be fun on the track.

All the GT4 IMSA cars this weekend were dual clutch cars or otherwise some sort of non-standard manual transmission. Even the Mustang gets a sequential 6-speed, I'm not sure if that's dual clutch, but the shifts were instantaneous. The driver couldn't have been pushing a clutch pedal in. Those setups will be faster around a track (assuming no additional losses) and that's why racecars use them.

That said, for me a manual transmission will always be the most fun. Unless I'm competing to win (in which case I still might use a good old fashioned manual), that's what I want. But if you're the sort that likes automatics, they CAN still be good and fun at a track. An old GM TH400 or Ford AOD? No.
 
bradg33 said:
How many 20min sessions can you get out of a full charge (and have enough to get to a Supercharger)?
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No idea. I don't have a performance model, so mine doesn't have track mode. :( Judging from posts over at Tesla Motors Club, though, about four with top-off charing (not fast charging) for a half hour or an hour in between. Some tracks do have fast chargers installed, which would let you go as much as you'd want. For example, Buttonwillow has a 16-stall Tesla Supercharger on site.

They do say they use stronger regen so hopefully that means more energy from deceleration goes back into the battery and less into heating the brakes. And there are people doing this, so it must be fun enough to be worth whatever you have to do.

FormerHangie said:
How many consecutive laps can it go before the battery temperature causes it to go into reduced power?
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Part of enabling track mode (at least in v2) is that it immediately begins cooling the battery down, and then uses that large cooled mass to help take care of both battery and motor heating while you're taking it around the track. If you enable track mode as you're pulling up to the starting line, that won't help, but I'm not sure what the right length of time is to let that run beforehand.

SoonerAviator said:
I would be surprised if you could get through an entire track session without it going into battery protection mode. Teslas are quick, no doubt about it. However, they are more suited to drag racing than circuit events. Trying to run all-out for 10-15 minutes is going to be almost impossible. Then you have the issue of how to get batteries recharged in time for the next session.
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Nah, see above. That was a problem earlier in Tesla's history, though.

SoonerAviator said:
I'd imagine if you could increase cooling to the motors and maybe get around some of the temperature safeguards it would do well. The Model S Plaid with their Track Package ran something like a 7.5 minute trip around the Ring, and was supposedly unmodified from the showroom floor. It's definitely got the capability, but I'm not sure how it would have fared with a second consecutive trip around the Ring.
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Not as well, if I'm reading it right the record setting Nurburgring lap ate up 55% of the battery! :eek:
 
Ted said:
Nobody is a more die hard manual transmission person than I am.

With that said, it really depends on the car you're driving and the transmission. My wife's Alfa has a slushbox ZF 8HP75 (I think, I know it's an 8-speed ZF). It's still a slushbox, but it has paddle shifters, a manual mode that you can either be in full time or leave it in automatic and let it handle some of the shifting with additional "recommendations", etc. It would be fun on the track.

All the GT4 IMSA cars this weekend were dual clutch cars or otherwise some sort of non-standard manual transmission. Even the Mustang gets a sequential 6-speed, I'm not sure if that's dual clutch, but the shifts were instantaneous. The driver couldn't have been pushing a clutch pedal in. Those setups will be faster around a track (assuming no additional losses) and that's why racecars use them.

That said, for me a manual transmission will always be the most fun. Unless I'm competing to win (in which case I still might use a good old fashioned manual), that's what I want. But if you're the sort that likes automatics, they CAN still be good and fun at a track. An old GM TH400 or Ford AOD? No.
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Those cars are probably all using non-synchronized dog clutch engagement transmissions with a sequential shifter. They're lighter, easier to change gears in, and stronger than a dual clutch. They're also not very refined, which is why you don't see them on the street. If you want one for your Cobra, Quaife can set you up, starting at about 7,000 GB pounds. I have driven the Porsche PDK on the track and it's a fabulous performance transmission.

The Mustangs and Camaros that I drove on the track had conventional hydraulic automatics, but tuned for performance driving, and both were very satisfying.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
No idea. I don't have a performance model, so mine doesn't have track mode. :( Judging from posts over at Tesla Motors Club, though, about four with top-off charing (not fast charging) for a half hour or an hour in between. Some tracks do have fast chargers installed, which would let you go as much as you'd want. For example, Buttonwillow has a 16-stall Tesla Supercharger on site.

They do say they use stronger regen so hopefully that means more energy from deceleration goes back into the battery and less into heating the brakes. And there are people doing this, so it must be fun enough to be worth whatever you have to do.



Part of enabling track mode (at least in v2) is that it immediately begins cooling the battery down, and then uses that large cooled mass to help take care of both battery and motor heating while you're taking it around the track. If you enable track mode as you're pulling up to the starting line, that won't help, but I'm not sure what the right length of time is to let that run beforehand.



Nah, see above. That was a problem earlier in Tesla's history, though.



Not as well, if I'm reading it right the record setting Nurburgring lap ate up 55% of the battery! :eek:
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I did find an article from four years ago where Road and Track took a Model 3 performance to Lime Rock Park. They got four laps before the management system started dialing back the power.

I'm not anti-EV, I've been driving a PHEV for the last nine years and in day-to-day use it's great, but driving on the track is not a use case that EVs are currently good for.

The other issue is that there are a number of tracks that prohibit anything with a lithium drive battery from the racing surface. They don't feel that they could contain a fire should one start burning.
 
So, Miata.

NA, NB, or NC?

I'm thinking the A's are getting old, even if they are probably the best/most fun drivers.

The B's? The styling is really bland.

The C's? More recent, better styled (IMO) than the B's, but I can't find one at a decent price that isn't an automatic. The manuals command nearly a 100% premium.

The D's? I'm more of a C kinda guy anyway, but I think the D's are overstyled. And pricey.
 
kyleb said:
So, Miata.

NA, NB, or NC?

I'm thinking the A's are getting old, even if they are probably the best/most fun drivers.

The B's? The styling is really bland.

The C's? More recent, better styled (IMO) than the B's, but I can't find one at a decent price that isn't an automatic. The manuals command nearly a 100% premium.

The D's? I'm more of a C kinda guy anyway, but I think the D's are overstyled. And pricey.
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We've been enjoying our ND. As far as 'pricey?' I paid under 20k for it in 2019 with less than 30k miles on it. And it's a manual.

As far as after-market support though? The NAs and NB are probably the best. No matter what you want to do to one, no matter what you want to find, you can find it for a 1st or 2nd gen Miata.
 
kyleb said:
So, Miata.

NA, NB, or NC?

I'm thinking the A's are getting old, even if they are probably the best/most fun drivers.

The B's? The styling is really bland.

The C's? More recent, better styled (IMO) than the B's, but I can't find one at a decent price that isn't an automatic. The manuals command nearly a 100% premium.

The D's? I'm more of a C kinda guy anyway, but I think the D's are overstyled. And pricey.
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In today's track day traffic, I'd want a 2 liter car. With the smaller engines, I think you'd be spending a lot of time giving point bys.
 
FormerHangie said:
In today's track day traffic, I'd want a 2 liter car. With the smaller engines, I think you'd be spending a lot of time giving point bys.
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And the next question... Nobody has mentioned Boxsters. Heck, I can buy Boxsters as inexpensively as Miatas. I'm sure the rotors and pads (and everything else) will be >2x the cost, but why hasn't one of the Porsche fans around here pitched the Boxster?

And speaking of Porsches, the Savoy museum in Cartersville, GA (near VPC) has an excellent Porsche exhibit right now (plus a British invasion exhibit, a 70's muscle car exhibit, and some other things). Anyway, the Porsche exhibit has a 550 Spyder, a prototype 911, a '73 RS, a 959, a bunch of 356's, and several other 911's. A worthwhile visit if you're interested.
 
kyleb said:
And the next question... Nobody has mentioned Boxsters. Heck, I can buy Boxsters as inexpensively as Miatas. I'm sure the rotors and pads (and everything else) will be >2x the cost, but why hasn't one of the Porsche fans around here pitched the Boxster?
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I first drove the Boxster back 20-25 years ago. I wasn't impressed. The Miata was more responsive and fun, and much cheaper to buy and maintain. Then a couple of years ago I drove a 718 Boxster on autocross and track. It was a whole 'nuther car. 400 HP normally aspirated and perfectly balanced. But MUCH more expensive now.
 
FormerHangie said:
In today's track day traffic, I'd want a 2 liter car. With the smaller engines, I think you'd be spending a lot of time giving point bys.
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Horsepower is nice but weight’s the thing. You have to be used to working in the upper half of the rev band but driven well they’re quite quick even in traffic.
 
FormerHangie said:
Those cars are probably all using non-synchronized dog clutch engagement transmissions with a sequential shifter. They're lighter, easier to change gears in, and stronger than a dual clutch. They're also not very refined, which is why you don't see them on the street. If you want one for your Cobra, Quaife can set you up, starting at about 7,000 GB pounds. I have driven the Porsche PDK on the track and it's a fabulous performance transmission.

The Mustangs and Camaros that I drove on the track had conventional hydraulic automatics, but tuned for performance driving, and both were very satisfying.
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I was thinking it might be more of a conventional sequential, and while I’ve never driven one I’ve heard the same about them being unrefined and not good for street driving.
 
FormerHangie said:
In today's track day traffic, I'd want a 2 liter car. With the smaller engines, I think you'd be spending a lot of time giving point bys.
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As you get closer to dedicated track car, 2.5L converted NC's are attainable and a nice option. The smaller motors can be turboed but run out of cooling.

There's always the LFX (Chevy V6) converted Miata (NB and NC) and RX8. The converted RX8 (fantastic chassis) may be a workable option for the OP, but it would need a lot of TLC....
 
I'm telling you, escort wagon for the win! :)

Or maybe a firetruck. 600 horsepower, and horrible handling, but nobody is going to bump you into a wall.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
I am so confused now. Thinking of a wagon and a track car now. Yous guys are fairly useless. But fun.
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Don't underestimate the capability of hot hatches and certain wagons. This isn't a new thing, especially for European cars, and when you're talking about a car that you want to serve dual purpose as a daily and a track car, it has its merits.
 
If you are seriously into tracking, get a separate track car and DD.

The track car WILL break. And you need your DD.

With a dedicated track car, you can do things to it you would not do in a DD.
 
Well, unless you're retired, and/or the wife can drive you around.

And with some track cars, I'm pretty sure you need two of them. My friends that had Saabs seem to believe in that theory. I never met one that only had one Saab.

Oh yeah, and if you get something British, you'll need another car if you have to drive at night.

Am I missing any stereotypes?
 
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