TR182 Restoration

M

MyTR182

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Mar 25, 2023
Messages
3
Display Name
Display name:
Don
Hello Everyone! Never done the Forum thing so I appreciate your patience in advance.

I may have (if purchased) a 1979 TR182. It has ramp rash, sat for 4-5 years. Very clean lines, no dents or hail damage and no visible residual leaks. The owner completely pulled the interior... seats, carpet, side panels, insulation and the radios/transponder before parking it.
Since its basically been gutted of its interior you can clearly see the frame, inside of the skin, spars... everything... not a spec of corrosion anywhere. 4400TTAF 470 SMOH 470 Prop Clean Logs
No damage or incidents. Paint 3/10

The questions are:
1. Has anyone had such a project plane? If so, what should I be aware of before I pull the trigger on the purchase?
2. I'm wondering about what to look for or be concerned about mechanically. An engine overhaul is almost a certainty. What other ticket items would be on the list to replace or rebuild?
3. Will replacing the interior be a nightmare? Expensive? I'm very handy... especially with wood..
4. Does this kinda thing typically turn into a money pit?
5. Any rough idea as to basic restoration costs?
Any suggestions would be very much appreciated!!
 
You will be so happy………………in 3 years when you are done

win the lottery ASAP
 
MyTR182 said:
Hello Everyone! Never done the Forum thing so I appreciate your patience in advance.

I may have (if purchased) a 1979 TR182. It has ramp rash, sat for 4-5 years. Very clean lines, no dents or hail damage and no visible residual leaks. The owner completely pulled the interior... seats, carpet, side panels, insulation and the radios/transponder before parking it.
Since its basically been gutted of its interior you can clearly see the frame, inside of the skin, spars... everything... not a spec of corrosion anywhere. 4400TTAF 470 SMOH 470 Prop Clean Logs
No damage or incidents. Paint 3/10

The questions are:
1. Has anyone had such a project plane? If so, what should I be aware of before I pull the trigger on the purchase?
2. I'm wondering about what to look for or be concerned about mechanically. An engine overhaul is almost a certainty. What other ticket items would be on the list to replace or rebuild?
3. Will replacing the interior be a nightmare? Expensive? I'm very handy... especially with wood..
4. Does this kinda thing typically turn into a money pit?
5. Any rough idea as to basic restoration costs?
Any suggestions would be very much appreciated!!
Click to expand...

3 of the more expensive items.
1. Condition of the main landing gear actuators. Basically cracks around the attachment holes.
2. Condition of the main and the main gear trunions. These can have cracks where the brake lines attach and unfortunately require a disassembly to determine. If these where cracked prior to moth balling, paint flaking off the belly near the drain holes and any fluid in the interior around the actuators are a clue.
3. There is a Strut AD on the aircraft that needs to be complied with.
 
MyTR182 said:
Any suggestions would be very much appreciated!!
Click to expand...
The best place to start is before you buy the aircraft select the mechanic who will maintain this aircraft for you after the purchase. This will give you the one person who can answer the specific questions you ask. Its the same advice I give anyone looking to become an aircraft owner, start with the mechanic. Good luck.
 
^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^

Don't consider an offer without having a mechanic with 1xxRG/210 series experience look at the logbooks and perform a cursory inspection. He/she may recommend stopping the process at that point or, if you have plenty of money and there are no fatal flaws, proceed on a deeper pre-purchase inspection. It will likely be less expensive over the far, and even near term, to buy a flying a/c and also not be paying for hangar space while you have the plane put in an airworthy condition. If restoring airplanes is your passion and you are well funded it may be a good buy.
 
Last edited:
If you're asking this forum, it sounds like this might be your first airplane ? This is not a plane to have as your first.

A plane sitting for 4 years will incur more damage vs if it was flying. Rubber bushing, pulleys, brake lines, switches, door handles, etc.

If the landing gear saddles are cracked you'll need $30,000 or so for used parts - if you can find them.

New paint ($20,000), new interior ($10,000), new basic avionics for ADSB, IFR, etc. ($30,000 to $70,000).

Oh - and you never mentioned anything about engine and prop. Mid to late life and sitting for 4 years - $40,000 for engine, $10,000 for prop overhaul / new prop. And you have a six month or so wait for getting an engine overhaul or getting a remanufactured one.

In essence - RandomSkylane nailed it. When you're all done you will have put more $ into it vs what it would be worth on the market.
 
Thanks for the heads up! Point #1 looks good.. didn't see any damage or cracks
#2. No leaking or pooling fluids inside or out. Started to cycle the gear the gear when loading onto a trailer and they swung up pretty fast without "bad" noises.
#3 Will have to see if that was complied with. That sounds like ca-ching
Clip4 said:
3 of the more expensive items.
1. Condition of the main landing gear actuators. Basically cracks around the attachment holes.
2. Condition of the main and the main gear trunions. These can have cracks where the brake lines attach and unfortunately require a disassembly to determine. If these where cracked prior to moth balling, paint flaking off the belly near the drain holes and any fluid in the interior around the actuators are a clue.
3. There is a Strut AD on the aircraft that needs to be complied with.
Click to expand...
 
WDD said:
If you're asking this forum, it sounds like this might be your first airplane ? This is not a plane to have as your first.

A plane sitting for 4 years will incur more damage vs if it was flying. Rubber bushing, pulleys, brake lines, switches, door handles, etc.

If the landing gear saddles are cracked you'll need $30,000 or so for used parts - if you can find them.

New paint ($20,000), new interior ($10,000), new basic avionics for ADSB, IFR, etc. ($30,000 to $70,000).

Oh - and you never mentioned anything about engine and prop. Mid to late life and sitting for 4 years - $40,000 for engine, $10,000 for prop overhaul / new prop. And you have a six month or so wait for getting an engine overhaul or getting a remanufactured one.

In essence - RandomSkylane nailed it. When you're all done you will have put more $ into it vs what it would be worth on the market.
Click to expand...

I can't believe the quick responses and helpfulness of everyone! Yup. First potential plane. Grew up with a 172. When I showed my local A&P a ton of pictures said he would take it if I didn't. Now thinking it might be a better project for him. I'd be in it for 140k if everything above had to be done to it. Thank-you Everyone for your input! Sounds like if nothing serious was wrong it could be doable but most likely a money pit.
 
Bell206 said:
The best place to start is before you buy the aircraft select the mechanic who will maintain this aircraft for you after the purchase. This will give you the one person who can answer the specific questions you ask. Its the same advice I give anyone looking to become an aircraft owner, start with the mechanic. Good luck.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat:
 
And remember - insurance for a retract will be double that for a fixed gear. If you can get it, based on your age, how many hours, and what ratings you have.
 
I bought a very nice 172, got my ppl and ir in it.
New engine now in.
Avionics going in now
Paint soon.
No flying since august…

I was advised to buy the plane I want, not to do the work myself.

words of wisdom I wish I’d heeded.
 
MyTR182 said:
Thanks for the heads up! Point #1 looks good.. didn't see any damage or cracks
#2. No leaking or pooling fluids inside or out. Started to cycle the gear the gear when loading onto a trailer and they swung up pretty fast without "bad" noises.
#3 Will have to see if that was complied with. That sounds like ca-ching
Click to expand...


#2. They will swing great when cracked. The only sign will be leaking break fluid.
 
Clip4 said:
172RG yes, R182 gear not likely.
Click to expand...
Easily could happen. I have enough experience maintaining the R182 systems. That MLG pivot cracks around the root of the actuating spline, letting brake fluid escape. If it's ignored, it can shear right off and the gear will drop down into the airstream but will not extend fully and lock.

The MLG actuators had a habit of cracking and failing. The earlier models were weaker. If that fails, you can't get the gear down and locked.

If any O-ring in the system fails, it will either dump the oil overboard, or will bypass the fluid from the high side to the low, dropping the system pressure so that the MLG will not extend and lock. The earlier models used an older O-ring material so that Cessna required replacement of the seals every five years. Later models had some better stuff that was run on-condition. The key point here: If the system loses its oil, or if ANY actuator piston O-ring bypasses, or one of the tiny O-rings on the disc seals in the selector valve fails, you will not be able to pump the gear down manually, either. Those main legs must be forced forward against the slipstream, and it takes pressure to do that. I had one of those valve seals fail in the airplane when it was on jacks in the shop. In flight, it could have trashed the airplane. The nose gear requires hydraulic pressure to lock it down. There's a clever little downlock mechanism actuated by the cylinder pushrod itself. It needs the pressure to make it work. It won't just latch on free-fall.

The nose gear downlock pins have been known to crack and fall out. They have a notch machined into them for retention by a spring pin, and that's where they crack. One needs to inspect them regularly.

https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/CE1411R1.pdf/SIB_CE-14-11R1_1

https://www.cessnaflyer.org/articles-news/item/download/343_105db61ebe96cc649e5ddf3936e1d8b6.html

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/june/14/cessna-gear-inspection-urged

https://www.aviationsafetymagazine.com/squawk_box/cracked-loose-failed-3/

https://www.cessnaflyer.org/mainten...na-s-retractables-the-system-demystified.html

Owners and some mechanics take this stuff way too casually. The airplane needs to be jacked a long way up for those mains to swing, wheels nearly two feet off the ground. Doesn't sound like much until you see it. It's a bunch of work and most don't want to be bothered with or pay for. So stuff gets overlooked and eventually fails and the airplane gets wrecked. And then we wonder why insurance on retractables is so high! Duh. Not only do the gear swings need to be done, both under power and manually, but there are three pressures that also need to be checked at each gear swing. More work. And the MLG actuators need to be watched during the extension and retraction to see if they're shifting on their mounting bolts; if they're doing that, they can break one or more of the three bolts off in the airframe's aluminum mounting casting, and that broken end is a bear to get out without damaging the casting or its threads, or without taking the whole airplane apart to get it out. Been there, done that. I never, ever reused those bolts after the 500-hour actuator dye-pen inspections. They're close-tolerance AN bolts, and sure aren't worth reusing with the risks that come with that. You could have cracks in the thread roots on them. The nose gear actuator tends to work its mounting bracket loose in the fuselage structure, too. Got to watch for movement there. And check those downlock pins.

The R/TR182s are nice-flying airplanes, the best of the Cessna singles, in my experience. A real pussycat, easy to fly well. But they're all getting pretty old, and stuff wears out, cracks, and corrodes, and seals rot and crack. Maintenance gets even more important as time goes by.

When those crack-prone parts crack, replacement parts are obscenely expensive.

Edit: I should add that jacking the R/TR182 causes the fuselage to flex through the doorframes. You will sometimes find that one (or both) of the doors pops open as you're jacking it. That flex also occurs in turbulence in flight, and it stresses the door hinges, which tend to crack. A departing door would be a most exciting event, with the possibility of tail damage. And those hinges are expensive. Really expensive. BTDT.
 
Last edited:
When I was first buying my quote for retracts were more than 2x my quote for a similarly priced 182, closer to 3x actually. I have 6 seats in my Cessna with fixed gear and I'm still paying a 50% premium.

Definitely get a quote from a broker as part of your due diligence. I had to walk from a beautiful 210 cause our quote gave my wife nose bleeds.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Easily could happen. I have enough experience maintaining the R182 systems. That MLG pivot cracks around the root of the actuating spline, letting brake fluid escape. If it's ignored, it can shear right off and the gear will drop down into the airstream but will not extend fully and lock.

The MLG actuators had a habit of cracking and failing. The earlier models were weaker. If that fails, you can't get the gear down and locked.

If any O-ring in the system fails, it will either dump the oil overboard, or will bypass the fluid from the high side to the low, dropping the system pressure so that the MLG will not extend and lock. The earlier models used an older O-ring material so that Cessna required replacement of the seals every five years. Later models had some better stuff that was run on-condition. The key point here: If the system loses its oil, or if ANY actuator piston O-ring bypasses, or one of the tiny O-rings on the disc seals in the selector valve fails, you will not be able to pump the gear down manually, either. Those main legs must be forced forward against the slipstream, and it takes pressure to do that. I had one of those valve seals fail in the airplane when it was on jacks in the shop. In flight, it could have trashed the airplane. The nose gear requires hydraulic pressure to lock it down. There's a clever little downlock mechanism actuated by the cylinder pushrod itself. It needs the pressure to make it work. It won't @just latch on free-fall.

The nose gear downlock pins have been known to crack and fall out. They have a notch machined into them for retention by a spring pin, and that's where they crack. One needs to inspect them regularly.

https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/CE1411R1.pdf/SIB_CE-14-11R1_1

https://www.cessnaflyer.org/articles-news/item/download/343_105db61ebe96cc649e5ddf3936e1d8b6.html

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/june/14/cessna-gear-inspection-urged

https://www.aviationsafetymagazine.com/squawk_box/cracked-loose-failed-3/

https://www.cessnaflyer.org/mainten...na-s-retractables-the-system-demystified.html

Owners and some mechanics take this stuff way too casually. The airplane needs to be jacked a long way up for those mains to swing, wheels nearly two feet off the ground. Doesn't sound like much until you see it. It's a bunch of work and most don't want to be bothered with or pay for. So stuff gets overlooked and eventually fails and the airplane gets wrecked. And then we wonder why insurance on retractables is so high! Duh. Not only do the gear swings need to be done, both under power and manually, but there are three pressures that also need to be checked at each gear swing. More work. And the MLG actuators need to be watched during the extension and retraction to see if they're shifting on their mounting bolts; if they're doing that, they can break one or more of the three bolts off in the airframe's aluminum mounting casting, and that broken end is a bear to get out without damaging the casting or its threads, or without taking the whole airplane apart to get it out. Been there, done that. I never, ever reused those bolts after the 500-hour actuator dye-pen inspections. They're close-tolerance AN bolts, and sure aren't worth reusing with the risks that come with that. You could have cracks in the thread roots on them. The nose gear actuator tends to work its mounting bracket loose in the fuselage structure, too. Got to watch for movement there. And check those downlock pins.

The R/TR182s are nice-flying airplanes, the best of the Cessna singles, in my experience. A real pussycat, easy to fly well. But they're all getting pretty old, and stuff wears out, cracks, and corrodes, and seals rot and crack. Maintenance gets even more important as time goes by.

When those crack-prone parts crack, replacement parts are obscenely expensive.

Edit: I should add that jacking the R/TR182 causes the fuselage to flex through the doorframes. You will sometimes find that one (or both) of the doors pops open as you're jacking it. That flex also occurs in turbulence in flight, and it stresses the door hinges, which tend to crack. A departing door would be a most exciting event, with the possibility of tail damage. And those hinges are expensive. Really expensive. BTDT.
Click to expand...

That’s why I told him to inspect for fluid leaks. Unless you have another method to determine a crack on the spine other than disassembly, it is the only indication he will have.
 
Randomskylane said:
You will be so happy………………in 3 years when you are done

win the lottery ASAP
Click to expand...

WDD said:
A plane sitting for 4 years will incur more damage vs if it was flying. Rubber bushing, pulleys, brake lines, switches, door handles, etc.

If the landing gear saddles are cracked you'll need $30,000 or so for used parts - if you can find them.

New paint ($20,000), new interior ($10,000), new basic avionics for ADSB, IFR, etc. ($30,000 to $70,000). Mid to late life and sitting for 4 years - $40,000 for engine, $10,000 for prop overhaul / new prop. And you have a six month or so wait for getting an engine overhaul or getting a remanufactured one.
Click to expand...

Any critique of the above comments could be; they're probably light as to not sound alarmist.

The small flexible bumper stops for the retracts now cost $2500 each and are a perishable part. The oil check valve is no longer in production and you are at the mercy of Textron which currently charges over $1400.

WDD said:
If you're asking this forum, it sounds like this might be your first airplane ? This is not a plane to have as your first.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
Last edited:
MyTR182 said:
I can't believe the quick responses and helpfulness of everyone! Yup. First potential plane. Grew up with a 172. When I showed my local A&P a ton of pictures said he would take it if I didn't. Now thinking it might be a better project for him. I'd be in it for 140k if everything above had to be done to it. Thank-you Everyone for your input! Sounds like if nothing serious was wrong it could be doable but most likely a money pit.
Click to expand...
140k sounds like a great deal for a retractable 182 with so many new parts.

No, I haven’t looked at the market in at least a year so I’m probably wrong.
 
I f I was looking for a decade plus ownership, I'd find the lightest fixed gear 182 that could qualify for a IO550 300hp conversion, or already installed (mo better) and pour the extra gas in lieu of retract. A pre-restart T182 would be nice too (can't find them, hen's tooth), or the equally hen-toothed aftermarket turbo conversion (@NordicDave has one). Not a fan of the turboboost, I prefer turbo normalized, but find NA 230hp wimpy for a 182, so would take any turbo variant over stock NA hp, if I can't have 300hp down low.

In this space, I'd go fixed gear over retract, looking at the future of these cans being 2036, not 1996. Hearing boomers waxing about how it used to be to own these things, and a buck twenty, gets me a half-drank cup of joe. Time marches on, and supportability is gone beyond that which those in 1996 enjoyed, and that's before we even get to inflation adjusted basis mind you. New Piston production (aka cirrus and cirrus....*yawn*) jumped the shark decades ago on an inflation adjusted basis, so that's a non-sequitur. All there is left is the resilient-market-to-extinction curve; that is without fail, fixed gear.

I say this as a retract owner btw. When I bought this clam trap 10 years ago, powerpacks were 15 hundred bucks. They have been 4 AMU before labor for a while now. gfto. My wages have not inflated accordingly in the least. The assumptions made then about retract savings, categorically do not pencil out now. 7-10 years is a short time for that to have occurred. I can still count with my fingers, I don't need to zoom out to 30,000ft to see where this is going. caveat emptor!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top