Toyota recall and Car Dealers

[dmccormack]

So a few years ago I had to provide my email address so I could peruse the Ford inventory.

Since then my junk mail email account has captured many announcements, deals, sales -- ad naseum.

Yesterday, this gem arrived:

From Dealer Ford)
To: me
Sent: Wed, Jan 27, 2010 1:28 pm
Subject: Please read Toyota recall they STOPPED production!
Hi Dan,
To all Friends and Family. Anyone that knows anyone that owns a Toyota.
As of Feb. 1, the company will halt production of eight models, including the Camry and Corolla sedans, two of the biggest sellers in North America. Collectively, the models made up 57 percent of the company's total sales in the U.S.
Here's a list of models involved in the latest recall:
· 2009-10 RAV4
· 2009-10 Corolla
· 2009-10 Matrix
· 2005-10 Avalon
· 2007-10 Camry
· 2010 Highlander
· 2007-10 Tundra
· 2008-10 Sequoia
Last week, Toyota issued a recall for the same eight models affecting 2.3 million vehicles. That adds to an earlier recall of 4.2 million Toyota- and Lexus-branded vehicles that were reported of having problems with the pedals' getting trapped by floor mats.
The damage of the recall in the U.S. is estimated to cost the Japanese carmaker about $446 million to $502 million a week, according to research notes by Kurt Sanger, autos analyst at Deutsche Bank.
The company reported a record net loss of 436.94 billion yen in its fiscal year ended March.
Toyota is expected to announce around 2 million vehicle recalls in Europe today after defective gas pedals have been reported, according to Wall Street Journal sources.
"As part of the recall, we are obliged to suspend all sales until there is a remedy...but the advice for customers remains the same," Toyota spokesman Mike Michels tells Drive On.
If you own a Toyota email me or call me !-800-xxx-xxxx
There stock is falling and the resale is falling also. I wouldn't want to take the chance with my family! I have emailed anyone I have ever talked to. If you would like help getting out of your car please contact me ASAP. I have been getting tons of emails so please be patient I will get back to you! Be sure to send a phone number if you would like a fast response!
​

So, I replied:

To: (Ford Dealer)
From: Me
Subject:RE: Please read Toyota recall they STOPPED production!
Good luck with this fear-based campaign.
I own a Ford truck, but Ford's are not immune from recalls.
Please remove me from your email list.
​

This morning, I Have Mail!

Dan,
Ford has never mislead consumers for 3 years for safety issues. Like the ones killing people all over the world. The US gov has made them stop producing vehicles they cannot fix. Not just a recall. Even GM has stopped the Vibe from being produced. Is it scares people great. Nobody should even be driving one. If you would look into it as I have you may feel the same way about these death traps that have already killed hundreds all over the world. I'm not happy about my family being on the road. It is educating consumers about what is really on the market. Have you seen the news? Would you want your family taking that risk MR.McCormack??
Bill ######
Internet Sales Manager
###### Ford
​

I think this is pretty funny. But I solicit you, my fellow pilots: How should I reply?

See the survey. I eagerly await your responses!

 

[Ted]

I automatically forward all such eMails to the garbage bin, where they belong.

All companies have marketing departments. Most marketing departments employ tactics that I don't like. I can either boycott all such marketing departments, or buy what I want based on whether or not it's a good quality product. I ignore marketing.

 

[weilke]

Cheesy.

Well, it comes from a car-dealer. Kind of redundant.

Glass houses and such. Didn't they have a recent recall about some cruise-control component that puts the car on fire ?

If this comes from a local dealer, I would forward this garbage to their central marketing. Doesn't reflect well on the company.

 

[wbarnhill]

I'd throw it to corporate, and explain my disappointment with those types of tactics.

http://www.leasetips.com/f150crashtest.htm - 2001. Ford truck does the worst of the four tested vehicles. Toyota Tundra does the best.

I'm sure there are plenty more screwups that can be found in the Ford lineup. Yes, the stuck accelerator is a serious issue that needs to be addressed, but this dealer preying on fear to turn a buck is just low. I mean the email just oozes "I will pay you as little as possible for your trade, then sell it at an obscene markup by claiming that the problem has been fixed on that car, all the while putting you in a new vehicle with a higher payment because you care about your family's safety and will spend the money for the peace of mind. Time to plan my trip to the bahamas with the commission you're going to earn me." Of course I hate car dealers anyway, so that could be bias.

 

[wbarnhill]

Cheesy.

Well, it comes from a car-dealer. Kind of redundant.

Glass houses and such. Didn't they have a recent recall about some cruise-control component that puts the car on fire ?

If this comes from a local dealer, I would forward this garbage to their central marketing. Doesn't reflect well on the company.

Hey, there you go..

http://www.safetyforum.com/fordcruisecontrol/

Forward that one link to the dealer.

 

[Matthew]

I voted, more as a joke, to sell the F150 and buy a bunch of Toyotas. But, maybe someone up the food chain might be interested in reading about the sales tactics being used.

I was skimming the paper this morning and thought I saw an article that said that a dealer or manufacturer was going to offer incentives to Toyota owners to try to get them through the doors.

>>>
edit: Maybe this is the story I saw this moring:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.3bb1888ef1a1aa64be3cb69f704ec08b.fc1&show_article=1
<<<

Disclaimer - my wife owns one of the affected models.

Maybe we should go ahead and get rid of our deathtrap and pick up a nice low-mileage Pinto instead.

Oh, and GM stopped production of the Vibe when it killed off Pontiac, not because of any unexplained acceleration issue.

 

[dmccormack]

Maybe we should go ahead and get rid of our deathtrap and pick up a nice low-mileage Pinto instead.

Oh, and GM stopped production of the Vibe when it killed of Pontiac, not because of any unexplained acceleration issue.

Or the Ford Explorer with exploding tires...?

 

[Matthew]

Or the Ford Explorer with exploding tires...?

Hey, now. That was the owners' fault, remember, and Firestone/Bridgestone's fault, and ... and ...

 

[EdFred]

Tell them to use a grammar check next time they send out a sales pitch email

"There stock...."

Really?

 

[tonycondon]

my great grandpa said his model T was terribly unreliable.
ford built the edsel. i believe the shape of the grill on this car is where we get the term "lemon"
wasnt the ford LTD the first car to go on Dateline for stuck accelerators?
any car with floormats is a risk to get a stuck pedal.

 

[EdFred]

my great grandpa said his model T was terribly unreliable.
ford built the edsel. i believe the shape of the grill on this car is where we get the term "lemon"
wasnt the ford LTD the first car to go on Dateline for stuck accelerators?
any car with floormats is a risk to get a stuck pedal.

I always thought they just glued a toilet seat on the front of the edsel.

 

[Matthew]

my great grandpa said his model T was terribly unreliable.
ford built the edsel. i believe the shape of the grill on this car is where we get the term "lemon"
wasnt the ford LTD the first car to go on Dateline for stuck accelerators?
any car with floormats is a risk to get a stuck pedal.

Didn't BMW have an issue about 20 yrs ago with accelerator problems? I think they redesigned the brake/accelerator pedals to make it harder to get the two mistaken.

I suspect Toyota is going to find out there is a software problem, I'm a software guy so I bristle a bit when I hear myself say that. I really don't know how much drive-by-wire exists inside these cars, but with the complexity of engine controls these days, I could see it being entirely possible that an intermittent problem on a sensor could be feeding the computer an input that puts the engine into some kind of fast-idle mode unexpectedly. Accidents have been reported on these vehicles, even when the floor mats have been removed and I've heard there have been cases where drivers have brought their cars into the dealer with the brakes smoking and engines racing to let the mechanics see for themselves. I think they were grasping at anything when they recommended removing the floor mats.

The Toyota guys will figure it out, and it'll probably be some stupid mistake somewhere along the line. I just hope it'll be a quick/easy fix.

 

[wsuffa]

I'm with William.

A very pointed letter that indicates that you asked to be removed from the mail list, that you received the indicated response, that you do not appreciate those kinds of tactics and that the fact that Ford needs to market this way raises doubts in your mind as to the quality of Ford products.

Send it to the president of the local dealership and the CEO of Ford corporate.

See what happens.

Be the Baby Ruth in the punch bowl.

 

[EdFred]

Why doesn't Toyota just issue an Roadworthiness Directive, and force all the owners to pay for the fix?

 

[Greebo]

For goodness sake - it's a freaking FLOOR MAT issue.

Take out the floor mats!

*sigh*

This whole recall, of course, HAD to happen as I'm trying to SELL my 2006 Highlander Hybrid...

 

[SkyHog]

Seriously, I'd be messing with that guy so much right now if I were you. Send a list of ford recalls to his entire mailing list if he's dumb enough to have you all on CC.

 

[Matthew]

For goodness sake - it's a freaking FLOOR MAT issue.

Take out the floor mats!

*sigh*

This whole recall, of course, HAD to happen as I'm trying to SELL my 2006 Highlander Hybrid...

It might be that simple - there are how many of these cars out there? How many have had an uncontrolled acceleration? The numbers are probably down in the PPM. But, if it bleeds it leads, as they say, so probably any accident in a Toyota will be blamed on the "stuck gas pedal problem".

 

[Greebo]

Oh I get the reason for the recall - it's just the hysteria timing couldn't be worse. :/

 

[dmccormack]

Isn't this simply flippin hilarious???

Ford Stops Production of Van In China for Gas Pedal Problem
Jan 28, 2010

Ford has halted production of commercial vehicles in China after learning that the gas pedals came from the supplier involved in the Toyota recall, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.
There have been no reports of the acceleration problems that made Toyota issue its massive recall.
The production halt affects the full-size Transit Classic commercial vehicle Ford makes in China with one of its joint-venture partners, Jiangling Motors, according to Ford spokesman Said Deep

 

[wsuffa]

For goodness sake - it's a freaking FLOOR MAT issue.

Take out the floor mats!

*sigh*

This whole recall, of course, HAD to happen as I'm trying to SELL my 2006 Highlander Hybrid...

Actually, Chuck, I'm not sure it is. I saw/heard something today that Toyota sources the accelerator pedals from 2 companies: one in Japan and one in Indiana. The ONLY cars that are having a problem are the ones with pedals sourced in Indiana.

Will have to look for reference. Ah, here it is: Link

In Europe, Toyota is still unsure how many vehicles are affected by the problem with pedals that are manufactured by CTS Corp., based in Elkhart, Indiana.

 

[EdFred]

Actually, Chuck, I'm not sure it is. I saw/heard something today that Toyota sources the accelerator pedals from 2 companies: one in Japan and one in Indiana. The ONLY cars that are having a problem are the ones with pedals sourced in Indiana.

Will have to look for reference. Ah, here it is: Link

Well that's what CTS gets for not buying from me anymore.

 

[Greebo]

Hmm. That's different from the news story on TV here. They were showing gas pedal's getting stuck under the driver's side mat (deliberately done for TV purposes of course) and explaining that as the issue.

 

[roncachamp]

I think this is pretty funny. But I solicit you, my fellow pilots: How should I reply?

Remember the Pinto!

I'd reply with a list of Ford safety recalls, forward it to Ford corporate and express my disappointment as a Ford owner, and tell both I was selling the F-150 and that I'd never buy another Ford product and recommending all my acquaintances to do the same.

 

[dmccormack]

Remember the Pinto!

I'd reply with a list of Ford safety recalls, forward it to Ford corporate and express my disappointment as a Ford owner, and tell both I was selling the F-150 and that I'd never buy another Ford product and recommending all my acquaintances to do the same.

Yeah, I've drafted this response:

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bill,[/FONT]

Are you absolutely certain you want to continue this?

• Ford Explorer: http://www.firestone-tire-recall.com/pages/overview.html
• Ford Pinto: http://www.calbaptist.edu/dskubik/pinto.htm
• Cruise Control in several Ford Models: http://www.lemonauto.com/complaints/ford/ford_explorer.htm

And this just in:

Ford Stops Production of Van In China for Gas Pedal Problem
Thursday, January 28, 2010
Ford has halted production of commercial vehicles in China after learning that the gas pedals came from the supplier involved in the Toyota recall, the Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.
There have been no reports of the acceleration problems that made Toyota issue its massive recall.
The production halt affects the full-size Transit Classic commercial vehicle Ford makes in China with one of its joint-venture partners, Jiangling Motors, according to Ford spokesman Said Deep.

​

Face it -- no automobile manufacturer is immune from safety issues. Toyota is the latest. How are you so sure Ford won't be next?

Remove me from your email list.
​

 

[wbarnhill]

Hmm. That's different from the news story on TV here. They were showing gas pedal's getting stuck under the driver's side mat (deliberately done for TV purposes of course) and explaining that as the issue.

That's what I'd heard, and that the recall involved replacing the gas pedal with one that was shortened slightly so that it couldn't get caught.

 

[Greebo]

Well that's a more certain solution, no doubt - but you know, cutting the corner off the floor mat should work just as well.

 

[Matthew]

I guess I'm still a skeptic, but the floor-mat issue just seems too simple. I've looked at my wife's car, and there seems to be pretty good clearance between the mat and pedal, and there's a decent sized hook to prevent the mat from creeping forward. Plus, with the number of different models involved, I would think they'd each have different sized mats anyway so I'd have expected the problem to only show up in a single model.

Maybe there's a mechanical hinge that is catching somewhere in the mechanism and that's why it seems to be related to a gas pedal made by one particular supplier.

dunno.

--

Back to the original post, though - if you've already asked to be removed from the e-mail list, and the guy insists on sending you stuff like this anyway, I guess it's payback time.

 

[wsuffa]

Remember the Pinto!

The *BOOM* car.

 

[RMCN172RG]

For goodness sake - it's a freaking FLOOR MAT issue.

Take out the floor mats!

*sigh*

This whole recall, of course, HAD to happen as I'm trying to SELL my 2006 Highlander Hybrid...

Actually it has nothing to do with floormats. That's part of the issue people have died who removed their floormats

Right now Toyota doesn't know how to fix it which why the "freese" on sales.

This is another over reaction look at how many vehicles in the fleet that have had the problem.

It's a lack of basic skills.

Whoa the engine is running wild and the car won't stop what should I do?

Call 911 on the cell phone, DID that, are we recording, yes

Press the clutch, I AIN'T got one of thosez!

Shift into Nuetral, WHATTTTT

Turn off the Key. WWWHHHHHAAAATTTTTT

Crash, BANG, THANKS!

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=7017760

 

[weilke]

Over the years, I have had two runaway cars. Both in the days of an actual cable connecting the pedal and the throttle. Cable gets frayed, frayed strands block cable from moving back. Luckily, they both got stuck about 1/2 open and where weak enough engines that I could still shift and adjust my speed using the brakes to nurse them home. And no, I didn't start calling all my friends and 911 to report the problem.

 

[gismo]

I think this is pretty funny. But I solicit you, my fellow pilots: How should I reply?

See the survey. I eagerly await your responses!

I think a one word reply should suffice: "Pinto".

 

[RMCN172RG]

I think a one word reply should suffice: "Pinto".

Pinto and wild acceleration in the same sentence, wow.

 

[SCCutler]

1. The dealer's marketing guy is an idiot; few people make a buying decision based upon derision heaped on competitors. I'd tell the dealer he is alienating car buyers. Pass it upstairs to Michigan, too; they don't want or need this.

2. There has not been a production car built in decades which cannot overcome all available power and stop by the application of full brakes. Not one.

 

[N801BH]

Actually it has nothing to do with floormats. That's part of the issue people have died who removed their floormats

Right now Toyota doesn't know how to fix it which why the "freese" on sales.

This is another over reaction look at how many vehicles in the fleet that have had the problem.

It's a lack of basic skills.

Whoa the engine is running wild and the car won't stop what should I do?

Call 911 on the cell phone, DID that, are we recording, yes

Press the clutch, I AIN'T got one of thosez!

Shift into Nuetral, WHATTTTT

Turn off the Key. WWWHHHHHAAAATTTTTT

Crash, BANG, THANKS!

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=7017760

If this was the crash I am thinking about, it turns out the irony is chilling.

Guy driving was a experienced Highway Patrol Officer who had extensive training in high speed driving, pursuits, etc...... You would think he could have thought through the situation and simply put the car in nuetral or shut off the ignition.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Tinfoil hat on- The folks that own General Motors are the ones who get to decide how serious of a safety issue prosperous Toyota has...

 

[steingar]

I wonder how this will play. I assume Toyota execs were either very concerned or wanted to exhibit the appearance of being very concerned. I wonder if the end result won't be a tarnished reputation. After recently considering the purchase of a new Toyota I am not as impressed with their quality as I was in previous years.

 

[RogerT]

I eagerly await your responses!

I'd reply that you made a request to be removed from their email list
and they continued to harrass you. Send a letter to the dealership
owner complaining that they've broken the law. File a complaint with
the local better business bureau about their marketing tactics. Write
a letter to Ford Motors customer satisfaction people and the CEO.

RT

 

[TangoWhiskey]

For goodness sake - it's a freaking FLOOR MAT issue.

Take out the floor mats!

*sigh*

This whole recall, of course, HAD to happen as I'm trying to SELL my 2006 Highlander Hybrid...

Four of my friends died last month, the day after Christmas, when their Toyota's Avalon accelerated itself into a T-intersection, hit trees on the other side, and ricocheted inverted into a pond. Guess where the police found the floormats? In the trunk. He was just that kind of uber-cautious man.

I'm with Matthew. Software or sensor issue, as yet undetected, is what I think will be found to be root cause. Decrement hex register 00 by one, hello FF.

Regardless, this fear-mongering-marketer needs his emails brought to upper management's attention. Entirely inappropriate and unprofessional, and I'm certain it would not be condoned by Ford, with whom I've had nothing but pleasant purchase and ownership experiences.

 

[Pilawt]

The last three Fords I owned were ready for the scrap heap with odometer numbers that would mean "just broken-in" on a Toyota.

In our household (self, wife, adult son and daughter-in-law) we have a Lexus RX, a Toyota Solara and two Scions.

 

[gismo]

If this was the crash I am thinking about, it turns out the irony is chilling.

Guy driving was a experienced Highway Patrol Officer who had extensive training in high speed driving, pursuits, etc...... You would think he could have thought through the situation and simply put the car in nuetral or shut off the ignition.

IIRC the car involved had a "pushbutton ignition switch" that by design prevented the engine from being turned off if the car was moving. But he should have been able to stop using the brakes. One potential problem there is that when the throttle is wide open there's no vacuum to operate the brake booster (if the car uses vacuum for that, some don't) other than what's in the vacuum reservior which is only good for about three strokes of the brake pedal. And while you can still apply full braking power without the booster it takes an unusual amount of force. So if you ever need to override your engine with the brakes, push the brake hard as you can and hold it without releasing the pedal force until you've got the engine under control.