Towplane crash at C83

[Silvaire]

Yesterday around 1:30. I did not see it but heard what sounded like complete engine failure at what was probably the most inopportune point - about 2/3 down the runway and 150 ft. Glider got down okay. The plane was a Bellanca Scout. RIP pilot.



EDIT: see post #6 - this was not an engine failure

 

[frfly172]

Sad RIP.

 

[Lndwarrior]

Byron CA.

That's just sad.

I'm trying to imagine this scenario. Abrupt engine stop while towing. I'm guessing a Bellanca would already be on the edge of a stall during a take-off, right?

Anyone have experience in towing that can explain this scenario?

 

[Tarheelpilot]

May or may not be related but it can be alarming how much forward stick and nose down pitch is required to prevent a stall when an engine quits at high aoa and low airspeed. At 150 feet agl it is unnatural to push that hard forward.

 

[Matthew]

When I towed, that was the part of the flight most likely to give me white knuckles.

Gliders are generally considered able to do the impossible turn at 200’, the towplane can’t. I always had a couple of landing spots picked out, but at 150’ I don’t know what would have happened.

The tow plane generally is at a high angle of attack, high power, and enough p-factor that the rudder might nearly be floored. If the engine quits at that point you need to dump the glider and get that nose down and fly that airplane. Many of us that fly powered aircraft keep our hands on the throttle during takeoff. In the towplane I had to keep one hand on the yoke, one on the throttle, and one on the release. Not easy.

One scenario is the engine quits at 150’ and the towplane pilot drops the nose immediately. The glider pilot will have that “wtf moment” before releasing his end of the rope and the towplane may not have released yet either. Now you have a situation where the glider may be pulling upwards on the tail of the towplane. That can end badly.

I don’t know what happened here, but a 150’ engine failure during tow has many ways to end badly.

 

[Silvaire]

Update: it wasn't engine failure glider canopy opened and for some reason the glider zoomed up and nosed the Scout right into the ground. The pop I heard was the explosion when it hit. He never had time to even pull the throttle back.

 

[rtk11]

Update: it wasn't engine failure glider canopy opened and for some reason the glider zoomed up and nosed the Scout right into the ground. The pop I heard was the explosion when it hit. He never had time to even pull the throttle back.

Oh man, that's horrible. So the tow pilot might have done everything right, but lost elevator authority when the glider pulled up his tail? Eeesh. RIP pilot.

 

[Matthew]

Update: it wasn't engine failure glider canopy opened and for some reason the glider zoomed up and nosed the Scout right into the ground. The pop I heard was the explosion when it hit. He never had time to even pull the throttle back.

There it is.

When the glider pulls up like that, the towplane doesn’t have a chance. The normal rule is that if the glider or towplane lose sight of each other, you release. Things happen quickly, and this one happened too quickly. Rule #1 applies to gliders, too.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

I was always hair triggered to pull the release should the glider do anything the slightest bit abnormal; you're off, asswhole. Not sure I would be quick enough even with my hand out, ready to pull, as it was not something anyone practiced or I had to actually do. So, not saying I would have had a better outcome than this Scout towpilot.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Update: it wasn't engine failure glider canopy opened and for some reason the glider zoomed up and nosed the Scout right into the ground. The pop I heard was the explosion when it hit. He never had time to even pull the throttle back.

Very sad. This is that situation where the glider pilot can kill the pilot. “Kiting”. Canopy coming off is not an emergency of course. Awful and I bet that is how the glider pilot feels.

Just possibly of interest for the power pilots here who have not flown aerotow. The wings of the glider are huge. When they are pulling up it is no contest between the glider wings and the elevator authority of the towplane.

 

[Silvaire]

I had just pulled my plane out of the hangar and saw them go by just like countless times before over the past ten years then I heard a loud pop and no more engine noise which struck me as odd. Whatever happened occurred in two or three seconds. It was a beautiful day, the skydiving place had just reopened and was packed with people as if things were normal again, the Scout ended up maybe 200 feet from the building right in front of everyone. All was perfect and then it wasn't.

 

[Witmo]

We almost had the exact same scenario happen in our club last year. The difference was the rear canopy came off a couple thousand feet up and not at 150 feet AGL. The tow pilot said he barely had enough height to pull out from what he remembers as an inverted spin. Neither pilot released; negative gs prevented the towpilot from reaching down and pushing the release further down while the glider pilot was totally disoriented from losing the rear canopy and having something shatter the forward canopy (perhaps handheld radio?). Both pilots landed safely but the glider had structural damage. If the rope hadn't broken, both would be dead.

I have over 3000 tows myself and at 150 feet, there's next to no chance of surviving a glider kiting. I tell each new glider pilot I tow that the number one rule of Aerotow is: DON'T KILL THE TOW PILOT.

 

[saddletramp]

This is terrible news. As at tow pilot & CFII I fully understand the dangers of towing. If you get complacent bad things can happen. In this case though, the tow pilot had next to zero odds. Sad. RIP

 

[Hang 4]

We almost had the exact same scenario happen in our club last year. The difference was the rear canopy came off a couple thousand feet up and not at 150 feet AGL. The tow pilot said he barely had enough height to pull out from what he remembers as an inverted spin. Neither pilot released; negative gs prevented the towpilot from reaching down and pushing the release further down while the glider pilot was totally disoriented from losing the rear canopy and having something shatter the forward canopy (perhaps handheld radio?). Both pilots landed safely but the glider had structural damage. If the rope hadn't broken, both would be dead.

I have over 3000 tows myself and at 150 feet, there's next to no chance of surviving a glider kiting. I tell each new glider pilot I tow that the number one rule of Aerotow is: DON'T KILL THE TOW PILOT.

Is there a weaklink at either connection point? When we aerotow hang gliders, there's a weaklink on the glider that is supposed to break at about 1.5g's and a stronger one on the tow plane. Each has a release as well.

 

[Matthew]

Is there a weaklink at either connection point? When we aerotow hang gliders, there's a weaklink on the glider that is supposed to break at about 1.5g's and a stronger one on the tow plane. Each has a release as well.

Same thing for gliders. Some of the gliders have their own weak link. Sometimes because they have different hooks (Schweizer vs Tost), sometimes they just carry their own for other reasons. Release mechanisms on both aircraft.

 

[RyanShort1]

Is there a weaklink at either connection point? When we aerotow hang gliders, there's a weaklink on the glider that is supposed to break at about 1.5g's and a stronger one on the tow plane. Each has a release as well.

Yes. I've flown the 5C1 towplane and there are weaklinks. That was always the nightmare scenario.

 

[Witmo]

Weak links for towing gliders are only mandated if the tow rope being used does not meet the strength requirements listed in the regulations or the POH for the glider. A rope stronger than 200 percent of the gliders maximum operating weight would require weak links at both ends with the weaker weak link on the glider end. Both weak links need to fail before reaching the 200 percent point with the link on the towplane end at least 25 percent stronger than the glider end's.

 

[Silvaire]

From the info I've gotten the rope was released by the tow pilot but like I said it happened in a matter of a couple of seconds. There just wasn't enough time to recover. Nobody can be blamed for this, it's just one of those things.

 

[Bill Watson]

Lost a tow pilot friend that way some years ago.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[denverpilot]

Damn. That’s just a heartbreaking one. RIP.

 

[Dav8or]

It's been tough over at Byron. Somebody got medivaced out by helicopter from the skydiving operation on Friday. That tow plane lived in my hangar row. I used to pass by and wave at that guy on my way to the bathroom. I spoke to him once about getting tailwheel instruction. Seemed like a nice guy and was at the airport a lot. The sail plane guys must be devastated. That was their main tow plane and pilot.

RIP tow plane guy I never knew the name of. At least it was quick for him. It's the family and friends that suffer.

 

[3393RP]

Very sad. This is that situation where the glider pilot can kill the pilot. “Kiting”. Canopy coming off is not an emergency of course. Awful and I bet that is how the glider pilot feels.

I think everyone has heard of an airplane crash caused by an open cabin or baggage door. Some pilots just can't process the fact the aircraft will continue to fly just fine in that condition.

It's terrible that the glider pilot reacted by attempting to close the canopy and caused the towplane pilot's death.

 

[Larry Vrooman]

Most of the tow releases I see in tow aircraft are handles located on the floor, where it's hard to reach in a negative G situation.

However, I saw a 180 hp Supercub with a cable for the tow release running along the left side of the cockpit about the level of the side window. That made a lot of sense.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Wondering about tying the handle with a loop to pilot's right wrist with a 12" cord. Negative G would help you in pulling that handle. Of course there would be risks to that, but we have to start thinking about alternatives to the current situation.

 

[jimhorner]

Wow, that is terrible. Very sad.

I never thought about the glider being able to do this to a tow plane. Scary.

Not a glider or tow pilot. The last time I was in a sailplane was 40 years ago after my dad got his glider CFI, so the following is complete speculation. I wonder if a tow hook mechanism could be designed to automatically release if the angle of the rope with respect to the tow plane (or glider) exceeds certain limits? Seems like that could reduce the likelihood of something like this happening. Or is this such a rare occurance, that it’s not worth it?

 

[Dave Theisen]

I think everyone has heard of an airplane crash caused by an open cabin or baggage door. Some pilots just can't process the fact the aircraft will continue to fly just fine in that condition.

It's terrible that the glider pilot reacted by attempting to close the canopy and caused the towplane pilot's death.

So how do you know for sure it wasn’t the aerodynamics of the open canopy that caused it to climb?

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

So how do you know for sure it wasn’t the aerodynamics of the open canopy that caused it to climb?

Hard to imagine that with the size of the gliders wings and elevator relative to canopy size. The standard advice for this circumstance is ignore the problem, release when a normal landing is easy, and then land.

I knew a CFI who put a Grob down off field because of canopy opening which was discussed as being an error.

 

[Matthew]

I might have missed it, but I haven't see what kind of glider was involved.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

FAA Safety Team | Safer Skies Through Education
You have asked us to notify you when a webinar is scheduled that meets your criteria. The following webinar may be of interest to you:

"Zen And the Art of Aerotowing -- for the Gliderpilot"
Topic: This Is a Perspective From a Glider Cfi Who Is Also a Towpilot -- on the Common Errors and Misconceptions About Aerotowing.
On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 at 20:00 Eastern Daylight Time (17:00 PDT, 18:00 MDT, 19:00 CDT, 14:00 HST, 16:00 AKDT, 17:00 Arizona, 00:00 GMT)

 

[3393RP]

Hard to imagine that with the size of the gliders wings and elevator relative to canopy size. The standard advice for this circumstance is ignore the problem, release when a normal landing is easy, and then land.

Thanks, this is the answer I was going to post. An unlatched canopy isn't going to cause an immediate climb that overwhelms the towplane pilot's control inputs.

 

[Lindberg]

Most of the tow releases I see in tow aircraft are handles located on the floor, where it's hard to reach in a negative G situation.

However, I saw a 180 hp Supercub with a cable for the tow release running along the left side of the cockpit about the level of the side window. That made a lot of sense.

I've seen them on the floor and on the panel. The folks I know with the most experience prefer them on the floor because you can use a foot. To reach a handle on the panel, you have to take a hand off of something. Fortunately, I've no experience with either.