Touch-Up Paint

C

callegro

Pre-Flight
Joined
May 30, 2014
Messages
72
Display Name
Display name:
Callegro
Looking for a good touch up paint for my Cherokee 180D. It is going through the annual and there is an AD for the fuel tanks to be inspected. With that said, I need to repaint the heads of the screws and if all goes well, would like to touch up some other minor areas. I believe the white on my plane is "matterhorn" but I'll have to double check that.
 
callegro said:
Looking for a good touch up paint for my Cherokee 180D. It is going through the annual and there is an AD for the fuel tanks to be inspected. With that said, I need to repaint the heads of the screws and if all goes well, would like to touch up some other minor areas. I believe the white on my plane is "matterhorn" but I'll have to double check that.
Click to expand...

The inspection is a service bulletin, not an AD and the inspection is for corrosion on the spar. Don't let an IA jerk you around on this one since it's such an expensive inspection.

I'm not saying the inspection isn't a good idea, just don't do it because some IA says it has to be done.
 
Pull a part like an inspection plate or wheel pant, bring it down to an automotive store that mixes paint and let them match it.

You could get stainless steel screws and then wouldn't have to mess around with painting them too.
 
FredFenster said:
You could get stainless steel screws and then wouldn't have to mess around with painting them too.
Click to expand...

Cherokee fuel tank screws are structural. Putting in just any stainless screw that fits is not a good idea.

There are numerous kits available that contain stainless screws of a type with appropriate strength.
 
Last edited:
I put stainless screws in all of the inspection panels that come off at annual. Makes it much easier to remember which panels to remove, too.
 
Hank S said:
I put stainless screws in all of the inspection panels that come off at annual. Makes it much easier to remember which panels to remove, too.
Click to expand...

You need to read FAR 43-D.
 
Clark1961 said:
The inspection is a service bulletin, not an AD and the inspection is for corrosion on the spar. Don't let an IA jerk you around on this one since it's such an expensive inspection.

I'm not saying the inspection isn't a good idea, just don't do it because some IA says it has to be done.
Click to expand...

Don't forget it is his inspection, he'll look at what he wants or you can get another inspector.

Piper 28 spar corrosion is a pretty serious item.

I'd consider it a mandatory item if the SB has never been completed.
 
Go through your logs, if it's the original paint piper has the paint codes and paint type/manufacture.

If it's a repaint the paint shop should have put the code/type/manufacture in your log, at least all the decent shops list the paint info for just that reason.
 
Tom-D said:
You need to read FAR 43-D.
Click to expand...

What, you mean this?

(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.

All the rest of it is prefaced with, "Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall . . ." But none of that means I can't do an owner-assisted annual. It's all up to the IA. We built a relationship over time. He's fine with it, I like to stay involved and see things for myself.

P.S.--it clearly says to remove all necessary inspections plates, etc., which on my plane is a far cry from ALL inspection plates.
 
Hank S said:
What, you mean this?

(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.

All the rest of it is prefaced with, "Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall . . ." But none of that means I can't do an owner-assisted annual. It's all up to the IA. We built a relationship over time. He's fine with it, I like to stay involved and see things for myself.

P.S.--it clearly says to remove all necessary inspections plates, etc., which on my plane is a far cry from ALL inspection plates.
Click to expand...

There ya go. It's up to the inspector... so why will having stainless screws in some panels tell you what to open?

If you are going to buy a stainless screw kit use it all. Don't do half the job.
 
Tom-D said:
Don't forget it is his inspection, he'll look at what he wants or you can get another inspector..
Click to expand...

So you think it's okay for the IA to tell the owner it's an AD when it is actually a SB?
 
Clark1961 said:
So you think it's okay for the IA to tell the owner it's an AD when it is actually a SB?
Click to expand...

No,, I'd just say we are doing it.

Do you think it is ok for any owner to not know which ADs apply to their aircraft?

Come on,, this is a PA-28. not a 747.
 
Last edited:
Tom-D said:
No,, I'd just say we are doing it.

Do you think it is ok for any owner to not know which ADs apply to their aircraft?

Come on,, this is a PA-28. not a 747.
Click to expand...


Part of being a proper professional is also being a teacher.

Being honest and not trying to milk folks is good too.

If someone said "we're doing it" I would think it was required, when I found out it's not, you wouldn't have me as a customer anymore, plus the bad press you get when you rip folks off.

Why not say, "it's not required for airworthiness, but personally I believe it would be good to do for XXX reason"
 
Tom-D said:
No,, I'd just say we are doing it.

Do you think it is ok for any owner to not know which ADs apply to their aircraft?

Come on,, this is a PA-28. not a 747.
Click to expand...

I think an IA should be honest. If he/she misleads a new owner about required work then what else will she/he lie about? It really doesn't matter whether the IA is working on a PA-28 or a 747 if the integrity isn't there...
 
Clark1961 said:
I think an IA should be honest. If he/she misleads a new owner about required work then what else will she/he lie about? It really doesn't matter whether the IA is working on a PA-28 or a 747 if the integrity isn't there...
Click to expand...

what's dishonest about telling the owner that we are doing it. ?
The integrity is making a safe aircraft, for a new owner. no matter if they know or not.
 
Last edited:
James331 said:
Part of being a proper professional is also being a teacher.
Click to expand...

how many FBOs will do that with out charging for it.

Inspector is doing a job, they are not required to be sweet.
:)
 
I just don't think you get it, you'd make more money, have more clients and better relationships with them if you did.

Decieving people to make more work is just wrong, if you had a real reason for the work you wouldn't have to runaround the facts, it's just a matter of being straight with folks, honesty matters.
 
Last edited:
Tom-D said:
what's dishonest about telling the owner that we are doing it. ?
The integrity is making a safe aircraft, for a new owner. no matter if they know or not.
Click to expand...

You don't understand what is dishonest about telling an owner that a SB is an AD? Wow. I can't help you there.
 
Clark1961 said:
You don't understand what is dishonest about telling an owner that a SB is an AD? Wow. I can't help you there.
Click to expand...

Where did I say I condone that ?

A&P-IA inspectors do not have to be nice, they just have to be good.

Ever consider that he was simply trying to get the knothead to be safe. That is a pretty important S/B

Ever miscommunicate between inspector and owner?

You only know what was written here, you don't know what really happened or what was said.
 
James331 said:
I just don't think you get it, you'd make more money, have more clients and better relationships with them if you did.

Decieving people to make more work is just wrong, if you had a real reason for the work you wouldn't have to runaround the facts, it's just a matter of being straight with folks, honesty matters.
Click to expand...

Where did I ever say I'd do what you just said? Do you really see what you want to read?

When my customers hear me say " let's do the SB" that is enough for them. I don't have to explain it to them, They know I'm not trying to rape their wallets, that is why they are still my customers.
 
Tom-D said:
Where did I say I condone that ?

A&P-IA inspectors do not have to be nice, they just have to be good.

Ever consider that he was simply trying to get the knothead to be safe. That is a pretty important S/B

Ever miscommunicate between inspector and owner?

You only know what was written here, you don't know what really happened or what was said.
Click to expand...


Good lord...do you really think my knowledge is limited to what is posted in this forum? wow! Your disrespect for others is rather incredible. You know nothing about the OP but condone an IA lying to him in order to perform an inspection "to be safe" even when you have absolutely no knowledge of the particular aircraft. Why on earth would you call the OP a "knothead"? Maybe you're just making things up?

Edit: why didn't the FAA make the SB an AD? maybe it isn't as important as you seem to think.
 
Last edited:
Clark1961 said:
Good lord...do you really think my knowledge is limited to what is posted in this forum? wow! Your disrespect for others is rather incredible. You know nothing about the OP but condone an IA lying to him in order to perform an inspection "to be safe" even when you have absolutely no knowledge of the particular aircraft. Why on earth would you call the OP a "knothead"? Maybe you're just making things up?

Edit: why didn't the FAA make the SB an AD? maybe it isn't as important as you seem to think.
Click to expand...

Once again you read what you want. Where did I say that is was good to lie to a customer.

Quote it or apologize.
 
Tom-D said:
Once again you read what you want. Where did I say that is was good to lie to a customer.

Quote it or apologize.
Click to expand...

Ever consider that he was simply trying to get the knothead to be safe.

Tom that is what you wrote and it exemplifies your attitude. You can apologize to me anytime.
 
Clark1961 said:
Ever consider that he was simply trying to get the knothead to be safe.

Tom that is what you wrote and it exemplifies your attitude. You can apologize to me anytime.
Click to expand...

When you can show I condoned his method over his motive. you can apologize.
 
For those who are still following this Pizzing contest, tell me why any IA must teach, or tolerate ignorance of a owner.
 
Clark1961 said:
Tom that is what you wrote and it exemplifies your attitude.
Click to expand...


you betcha, why should any A&P-IA tolerate a stupid owner? If you are not smart enough to be an owner, why Should I make up the difference?
 
When I tolerate any ignorance of any owner, am I not complacent of his accident? Am I not at fault for not requiring them to comply with the regs?
 
James331 said:
Part of being a proper professional is also being a teacher.
Where does it say a A&P-IA can't be an ****ole as longs they are keeping you safe?

Being honest and not trying to milk folks is good too.

Define Milking

If someone said "we're doing it" I would think it was required, when I found out it's not, you wouldn't have me as a customer anymore, plus the bad press you get when you rip folks off.

that is your prerogative.

Why not say, "it's not required for airworthiness, but personally I believe it would be good to do for XXX reason"
Click to expand...

That's pretty much your ability to communicate with your customer.
 
You don't have to be a teacher, explain yourself, or much above the FARs, heck you don't even have to be a nice person, all that just helps make you a successful APIA, YMMV.


Should a pilot know all the ADs and SBs, sure, but let's look at this.

I'm a dentist, always loved aviation so I got my PPL and have amassed 150hrs, about 6 months ago I finally bought a plane, let's say a PA28-180, yeah I know enough to pass the oral systems part of a checkride on her, I remember a few ADs from when I got that prebuy done, but end of the day my life revolves around teeth, flying is a passion/hobby not how I make a living.

Time for the annual comes up and I hear about this dude named Tom, I take my trusty PA28 over for a annual and he says "we're doing this", well OK, I guess it needs to get done for the annual, I let Tom do what he says he needs to do.

A few months later I meet Bob, the ATP/CFI career pilot, he was recommend as a CFI for my BFR. As we're working our the ground part of the BFR, he notes he has the exact same airplane! Well now we have to get a little off tangent and talk PA28-180s, I mention my annual and how Tom D said we in no uncertain terms that we WE'RE GOING to do this, it added money but hey it had to be done.

What do you think my impression of Tom is going to be when this ATP/CFI tells him that, no, it didn't NEED to be done, I'll tell you one thing I'd wager that would be the last time Tom touched that PA28, I'd also wager our dentist tells no less than 5-10 other pilots about how Tom tried to trick him into making more work, I'd also wager that ATP/CFI tells a couple folks too.

Now on the flip side, if Tom took a extra 15 minutes and explained his reasoning behind why he thinks it needs to be done, and a quickie refresh on a SBs vs ADs, well as a dentist in Seattle who makes a few coins, he'd probably get a "thanks for looking out and thanks for explaining that to me" now Tom has the same amount of billable hours, probably a customer for life and good press at the field.


So if in 15 minutes you could have a customer for life and good press, OR, a one time customer and substantially more bad press, how do you want to spend that 15 minutes??
 
Last edited:
James331 said:
You don't have to be a teacher, explain yourself, or much above the FARs, heck you don't even have to be a nice person, all that just helps make you a successful APIA, YMMV.


Should a pilot know all the ADs and SBs, sure, but let's look at this.

I'm a dentist, always loved aviation so I got my PPL and have amassed 150hrs, about 6 months ago I finally bought a plane, let's say a PA28-180, yeah I know enough to pass the oral systems part of a checkride on her, I remember a few ADs from when I got that prebuy done, but end of the day my life revolves around teeth, flying is a passion/hobby not how I make a living.

Time for the annual comes up and I hear about this dude named Tom, I take my trusty PA28 over for a annual and he says "we're doing this", well OK, I guess it needs to get done for the annual, I let Tom do what he says he needs to do.

A few months later I meet Bob, the ATP/CFI career pilot, he was recommend as a CFI for my BFR. As we're working our the ground part of the BFR, he notes he has the exact same airplane! Well now we have to get a little off tangent and talk PA28-180s, I mention my annual and how Tom D said we in no uncertain terms that we WE'RE GOING to do this, it added money but hey it had to be done.

What do you think my impression of Tom is going to be when this ATP/CFI tells him that, no, it didn't NEED to be done, I'll tell you one thing I'd wager that would be the last time Tom touched that PA28, I'd also wager our dentist tells no less than 5-10 other pilots about how Tom tried to trick him into making more work, I'd also wager that ATP/CFI tells a couple folks too.

Now on the flip side, if Tom took a extra 15 minutes and explained his reasoning behind why he thinks it needs to be done, and a quickie refresh on a SBs vs ADs, well as a dentist in Seattle who makes a few coins, he'd probably get a "thanks for looking out and thanks for explaining that to me" now Tom has the same amount of billable hours, probably a customer for life and good press at the field.


So if in 15 minutes you could have a customer for life and good press, OR, a one time customer and substantially more bad press, how do you want to spend that 15 minutes??
Click to expand...

Or what would really happen, you seek me out, and ask for an annual, I do a preliminary look, and see all the work that's to be done before I think it's up to my standards. and simply tell you that I do not want the job.
 
Tom-D said:
When I tolerate any ignorance of any owner, am I not complacent of his accident? Am I not at fault for not requiring them to comply with the regs?
Click to expand...

Maybe you should talk to a priest, minister, padre, or lay counselor about your fellow man. Explain to them your feelings and consider the advise offered in accepting the perceived imperfections that surround you. I know that it is tough being as perfect as you are and having to deal with all the ignorant folks that surround you. With time, dedication, and a good team to support you I'm sure you can overcome this challenge and become even more perfect than you are today.

HTH & HAND
 
Clark1961 said:
Maybe you should talk to a priest, minister, padre, or lay counselor about your fellow man. Explain to them your feelings and consider the advise offered in accepting the perceived imperfections that surround you. I know that it is tough being as perfect as you are and having to deal with all the ignorant folks that surround you. With time, dedication, and a good team to support you I'm sure you can overcome this challenge and become even more perfect than you are today.

HTH & HAND
Click to expand...

Good Idea, but you forgot to answer the question.
 
Tom-D said:
Good Idea, but you forgot to answer the question.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that when you make it past your current challenge you will accept the answer already given.
 
callegro said:
Looking for a good touch up paint for my Cherokee 180D. It is going through the annual and there is an AD for the fuel tanks to be inspected. With that said, I need to repaint the heads of the screws and if all goes well, would like to touch up some other minor areas. I believe the white on my plane is "matterhorn" but I'll have to double check that.
Click to expand...

Appliance White in a rattle can from Walmart. Stick the screws in a cardboard sheet and paint away. It'll be close enough to Matterhorn White that no one will notice.
 
Tom-D said:
Or what would really happen, you seek me out, and ask for an annual, I do a preliminary look, and see all the work that's to be done before I think it's up to my standards. and simply tell you that I do not want the job.
Click to expand...


And that customer and his money walk across the airport and do business with someone who actually values their customers, all because you couldn't be bothered to take 15 minutes to explain something to a guy who's going to be forking over thousands to you.


Why do you hate GA, your fellow aviators and being successful so much :dunno:
 
Last edited:
James331 said:
And that customer and his money walk across the airport and do business with someone who actually values their customers, all because you couldn't be bothered to take 15 minutes to explain something to a guy who's going to be forking over thousands to you.


Why do you hate GA, your fellow aviators and being successful so much :dunno:
Click to expand...

Your dreaming again, I wish there were owners that wanted to fork over thousands to me. All my customers do their own maintenance, which makes their inspections very easy. Simply because they are very savvy owners and good mechanics that know how to care for their aircraft. I don't need the type of customer that needs babysitting. They can go to the FBO and pay for their ignorance.
 
Tom-D said:
Your dreaming again, I wish there were owners that wanted to fork over thousands to me. All my customers do their own maintenance, which makes their inspections very easy. Simply because they are very savvy owners and good mechanics that know how to care for their aircraft. I don't need the type of customer that needs babysitting. They can go to the FBO and pay for their ignorance.
Click to expand...


.....Tom,


I'm not even a AP, nor did I stay at a holiday inn, but you're not capturing much of the high dollar business, many folks don't do owner assist work for a multitude of reasons, nothing wrong with that, heck it's more profit for you, what's the issue?

And it's no wonder folks aren't using you to do thousands of dollars of work with your attitude.

Spending 15min to discuss having a pt91 customer adhear to a voluntary SB that you feel strongly about, that ain't babysitting, it's customer service man!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top