Touch-Up Paint

James331 said:
.....Tom,


I'm not even a AP, nor did I stay at a holiday inn, but you're not capturing much of the high dollar business, many folks don't do owner assist work for a multitude of reasons, nothing wrong with that, heck it's more profit for you, what's the issue?

And it's no wonder folks aren't using you to do thousands of dollars of work with your attitude.

Spending 15min to discuss having a pt91 customer adhear to a voluntary SB that you feel strongly about, that ain't babysitting, it's customer service man!
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Once again, you missed the point. I don't need that sh--, My customer list is long enough, I do this mostly to keep my customers/friends flying.

Unless you enjoy the mentoring process, it's a PITA.
 
Tom-D said:
For those who are still following this Pizzing contest, tell me why any IA must teach, or tolerate ignorance of a owner.
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You must not "tolerate" the ignorance of an owner. But It would be in the best interest of the shop to educate the owner. In the SB referred to it's plainly stated that Piper considers this to be mandatory, While not AD status. It would be well advised to perform the inspection.
But to tell the customer that you must remove the fuel tanks per AD, is BS.
So, why not tell the owner; that it would be a good idea to remove the tanks and have a looksee, because Piper has an SB out. And, it's a good opportunity to install a new stainless screw kit.
 
bluerooster said:
You must not "tolerate" the ignorance of an owner. But It would be in the best interest of the shop to educate the owner. In the SB referred to it's plainly stated that Piper considers this to be mandatory, While not AD status. It would be well advised to perform the inspection.
But to tell the customer that you must remove the fuel tanks per AD, is BS.
So, why not tell the owner; that it would be a good idea to remove the tanks and have a looksee, because Piper has an SB out. And, it's a good opportunity to install a new stainless screw kit.
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Because.... he's above that :rolleyes2:
 
callegro said:
Looking for a good touch up paint for my Cherokee 180D. It is going through the annual and there is an AD for the fuel tanks to be inspected. With that said, I need to repaint the heads of the screws and if all goes well, would like to touch up some other minor areas. I believe the white on my plane is "matterhorn" but I'll have to double check that.
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The DupliColor rack at your quality auto parts or auto paint store will have a spray can of what you want. If you have stainless screw heads, go to a welding supply and get some 'pickling acid' for stainless to etch and clean the heads so the paint sticks. Thin is better than thick.
 
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bluerooster said:
You must not "tolerate" the ignorance of an owner. But It would be in the best interest of the shop to educate the owner. In the SB referred to it's plainly stated that Piper considers this to be mandatory, While not AD status. It would be well advised to perform the inspection.
But to tell the customer that you must remove the fuel tanks per AD, is BS.
So, why not tell the owner; that it would be a good idea to remove the tanks and have a looksee, because Piper has an SB out. And, it's a good opportunity to install a new stainless screw kit.
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This is the first post that believes that this SB is a good Idea, no one prior has had the safety of the pilot in mind, they just believe that any one requiring it be done as forcing the owner to do this work is simply trying to make more money for the A&P.
The method I would use is simple, have the owner read the S/B, and tell them that if they want me to sign off this aircraft as airworthy, they will comply with it.
Why? because if I do the inspection and sign it off as unairworthy, the owner gets his friend the A&P to return the aircraft as airworthy by stating S/Bs are not mandatory.
I simply do not want to be involved in that type of situation. My name is still in the records of an aircraft that is flying around with fuel hoses that have not been inspected in 30-40 years.
Not wanting to do any maintenance that is not required is simply another way of showing that the owners are too cheap to do it right.
 
Clark1961 said:
The inspection is a service bulletin, not an AD and the inspection is for corrosion on the spar. Don't let an IA jerk you around on this one since it's such an expensive inspection.

I'm not saying the inspection isn't a good idea, just don't do it because some IA says it has to be done.
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Tom-D said:
This is the first post that believes that this SB is a good Idea, no one prior has had the safety of the pilot in mind, they just believe that any one requiring it be done as forcing the owner to do this work is simply trying to make more money for the A&P.
The method I would use is simple, have the owner read the S/B, and tell them that if they want me to sign off this aircraft as airworthy, they will comply with it.
Why? because if I do the inspection and sign it off as unairworthy, the owner gets his friend the A&P to return the aircraft as airworthy by stating S/Bs are not mandatory.
I simply do not want to be involved in that type of situation. My name is still in the records of an aircraft that is flying around with fuel hoses that have not been inspected in 30-40 years.
Not wanting to do any maintenance that is not required is simply another way of showing that the owners are too cheap to do it right.
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I've heard that a little pepper will make that crow taste better.
 
Tom-D said:
so why will having stainless screws in some panels tell you what to open?

If you are going to buy a stainless screw kit use it all. Don't do half the job.
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Simple, I remove the panels held on with SS screws. Painted screws don't come out.

As for buying a "stainless screw kit," I didn't buy one. I just measured the screws and washers I wanted and bought 100 of each. Got what I wanted, and lots of spares, for a fraction of a kit price.

But reading everything else in this thread convinced me that you are the type of person I try to avoid. There are 1001 ways to do a given task--your way and 1000 wrong ways.

I'll stop interrupting your bickering now. Signing off . . .
 
Clark1961 said:
I've heard that a little pepper will make that crow taste better.
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And then he says " just don't do it because some IA says it has to be done."

You can rationalize anything when you take it out of context.
 
Tom-D said:
And then he says " just don't do it because some IA says it has to be done."

You can rationalize anything when you take it out of context.
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How's that crow? Need more pepper?

And by the way, I do stand by the advice to not do something just because somebody says it must be done. If I'm paying, the recommendation better have solid reasons for it expressed by the person making the recommendation. Show some respect for the customer and perhaps they'll have some respect for you. Disrespect the customer and it is certain the customer will not respect you. I suspect this little problem is the source of all your heartburn with clients.
 
callegro said:
Looking for a good touch up paint for my Cherokee 180D. It is going through the annual and there is an AD for the fuel tanks to be inspected. With that said, I need to repaint the heads of the screws and if all goes well, would like to touch up some other minor areas. I believe the white on my plane is "matterhorn" but I'll have to double check that.
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While you're waiting for the school yard brawl to be over with....my plane is also "Matterhorn White" and I've used Krylon gloss white (primer and paint in one) with excellent results. It's a dead on match.
 
Clark1961 said:
I suspect this little problem is the source of all your heartburn with clients.
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Where did you get the idea I was having heart burn with my customers? or is that something you just made up?

Do you really believe the owner dictates what gets inspected during the annual?
 
Hank S said:
Simple, I remove the panels held on with SS screws. Painted screws don't come out.

What gives you the idea you can tell the inspector what they can look at and what they can't?

As for buying a "stainless screw kit," I didn't buy one. I just measured the screws and washers I wanted and bought 100 of each. Got what I wanted, and lots of spares, for a fraction of a kit price.

That's a good idea, I buy screws by the hundred too.

But reading everything else in this thread convinced me that you are the type of person I try to avoid.

You can't believe what a relief that is.

There are 1001 ways to do a given task--your way and 1000 wrong ways.

The IAs are allowed to make their own inspection list According to FAR 43-D, So if they want to see the condition of the fuel hoses behind your tanks guess what is being removed. or if they wish to comply with a SB do you believe you can tell them no?

I'll stop interrupting your bickering now. Signing off . . .
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You can take a lesson, or believe you are in charge of your annual.
 
bluerooster said:
You must not "tolerate" the ignorance of an owner. But It would be in the best interest of the shop to educate the owner.
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Do you believe educations are free? That requires time, of which the shop has not considered in their estimate.
When you want lessons, take an ownership class, don't be on the shop floor slowing the workers. When they get distracted they make mistakes.
 
Tom-D said:
Where did you get the idea I was having heart burn with my customers? or is that something you just made up?

Do you really believe the owner dictates what gets inspected during the annual?
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Letseeherenow, are you claiming you didn't have a problem with a customer when you glued an oil filter on? Are you claiming you don't have a problem with customers when you think you should charge them for explaining your recommendations? Are you claiming you don't have a problem with customers when you post a thread that specifically illustrates the problems you have with customers?

Allrightythen...HAND
 
Clark1961 said:
Letseeherenow, are you claiming you didn't have a problem with a customer when you glued an oil filter on?

Nope never saw the PITA again. that tactic got the desired results.

Are you claiming you don't have a problem with customers when you think you should charge them for explaining your recommendations?

There ya go reading what you want to see, I never said that, your interpretation is very biased.

Are you claiming you don't have a problem with customers when you post a thread that specifically illustrates the problems you have with customers?

Allrightythen...HAND
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You are making shi- up again? only YOU read this stuff into what is written. My customers already have complied with my demands for many years, they have no problems and keep returning year after year.
 
Tom-D said:
At least I read what's written and understand the message.
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So do I...your problem is that you don't like my understanding of what is plainly stated.
 
Clark1961 said:
So do I...your problem is that you don't like my understanding of what is plainly stated.
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Your message is quite clear, your still defending a dead beat owner. But I fail to see why?
 
Tom-D said:
Your message is quite clear, your still defending a dead beat owner. But I fail to see why?
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Where did I defend an alleged dead beat owner?
 
Clark1961 said:
Where did I defend an alleged dead beat owner?
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The very first post you made on the issue. you blamed me for screwing with the dude just because he didn't pay for services, and you are still doing it ,,,, WHY.
 
Tom-D said:
The very first post you made on the issue. you blamed me for screwing with the dude just because he didn't pay for services, and you are still doing it ,,,, WHY.
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Which post is that? Be specific.
 
Tom-D said:
The very first post you made on the issue. you blamed me for screwing with the dude just because he didn't pay for services, and you are still doing it ,,,, WHY.
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Tom-D said:
Go look it up or quit the reference .
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You have made a claim about my post. Support your claim. Which post is it. Be specific.
 
So this is how people get 10k and 20k post counts. Makes sense now.
 
ifly4fun said:
So this is how people get 10k and 20k post counts. Makes sense now.
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When you're dealing with a pig sometimes it's tough to disengage from the wrestle. It's too bad that Tom seems compelled to wrestle instead of learning. On the other hand, I don't need to wrestle so maybe I'll just ignore Tom's foolishness.
 
Clark1961 said:
When you're dealing with a pig sometimes it's tough to disengage from the wrestle. It's too bad that Tom seems compelled to wrestle instead of learning. On the other hand, I don't need to wrestle so maybe I'll just ignore Tom's foolishness.
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Don't ignore him, he does have some knowledge value, but he also has quite a bit of entertainment value.
 
James331 said:
Don't ignore him, he does have some knowledge value, but he also has quite a bit of entertainment value.
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The problem is answering the question of "what do I trust" from this guy...
 
Clark1961 said:
om seems compelled to wrestle instead of learning
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tell me what I need to learn?

I did learn that Clark has a very convenient memory, he can remember what I did, but he can't remember what he said.

He took exception to what tactic I used on a dead beat owner, who was a real pest, and never paid. I wonder why? Does he defend a dead beat? Or ?
 
Clark1961 said:
The problem is answering the question of "what do I trust" from this guy...
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I simply don't care what you trust, your not a customer and never will be. So who gives a Shi-?
 
James331 said:
Don't ignore him, he does have some knowledge value, but he also has quite a bit of entertainment value.
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If you don't read this web page for entertainment you are reading it for the wrong reason. This is the internet, or did you forget.
The real info we hear people asking here is best found elsewhere.
 
Clark1961 said:
When you're dealing with a pig sometimes it's tough to disengage from the wrestle.
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When covered with mud To the general public, it is too difficult to tell who is who.
 
To the OP.

Buy as many Stainless steel screws as you like. put them any where the IA allows. Remove panels as directed and yer good to go.

But

Use a good grade of antiseze like the nickel stuff from NAPA.

The stainless screws have a habit of gauliding when driven into steel anchors. With out some lubrication they will be more difficult to remove than regulars.
 
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