Took my last flight with my CFI last night

[48dodge]

Unfortunately it was not before he could sign me off. He took a job with Cape Air so I'm excited for him. I was his last student on his last day. We had a nice flight with near perfect weather. One interesting thing we did, and when I say interesting I mean it made me pucker a bit, was a soft-field landing without letting the nosewheel touch and do a touch-and-go. I hadn't heard him say "right rudder" that much in months! With our time running out I handed controls over to him to have one last landing at KLRO as an instructor. I thanked him for making it worse than all of my landings that day.

He felt bad for leaving without me getting signed off for my exam but he's done all he could do. Another CFI was going to be taking over for my mock check ride anyway since he knows the DPEs well. Now I just need to get a round tuit and get this thing done!

 

[Eagle I]

Unfortunately it was not before he could sign me off. He took a job with Cape Air so I'm excited for him. I was his last student on his last day. We had a nice flight with near perfect weather. One interesting thing we did, and when I say interesting I mean it made me pucker a bit, was a soft-field landing without letting the nosewheel touch and do a touch-and-go. I hadn't heard him say "right rudder" that much in months! With our time running out I handed controls over to him to have one last landing at KLRO as an instructor. I thanked him for making it worse than all of my landings that day.

He felt bad for leaving without me getting signed off for my exam but he's done all he could do. Another CFI was going to be taking over for my mock check ride anyway since he knows the DPEs well. Now I just need to get a round tuit and get this thing done!

My condolences. I once lost a good instructor to Cape Air, too. But life goes on ...

 

[48dodge]

My condolences. I once lost a good instructor to Cape Air, too. But life goes on ...

I'm more excited for him than sad that I've lost my instructor. Any word back from your guy on Cape and how he likes it?

 

[LoneAspen]

Maybe it's just me, but when I start my training, I was planning on making it very clear to wherever I go that I don't want anybody who might pack it up and head off for an airline during the process.

In fact, I'd prefer to find an instructor who could train me not just on the initial PPL, but all the stuff afterwards like instrument, multi, etc.

I know life events can take somebody in a different direction, and that could be unavoidable, but if the CFI knows in advance they might head off for an airline, or some other opportunity, before I'm done, I'd rather not start down the path with them.

The old "I don't want to switch horses in midstream" kind of thing I guess.

Is that too demanding when trying to find an instructor, or do others feel the same?

 

[jordane93]

Maybe it's just me, but when I start my training, I was planning on making it very clear to wherever I go that I don't want anybody who might pack it up and head off for an airline during the process.

In fact, I'd prefer to find an instructor who could train me not just on the initial PPL, but all the stuff afterwards like instrument, multi, etc.

I know life events can take somebody in a different direction, and that could be unavoidable, but if the CFI knows in advance they might head off for an airline, or some other opportunity, before I'm done, I'd rather not start down the path with them.

The old "I don't want to switch horses in midstream" kind of thing I guess.

Is that too demanding when trying to find an instructor, or do others feel the same?

I've been with the same CFI for my IR, Commercial, and currently my CFI training. His plan was to go to the airlines but I don't think he wants to do that anymore. The Chief CFI just went to Air Wisconsin and left a lot of students behind but they all knew his intention was to go to the airlines. My CFI is now the Chief CFI. I personally wouldn't be offended if he left for an airline and moved on to bigger and better things.

 

[96gs917]

Wow, the same thing just happened to me. I lost my CFI to Cape Air. He was my second in 6 months, great guy, really personable, and knew how to teach. I'll have to text him to see how he's doing, he was pretty excited.

I started flying with the "new" kid 2 weeks ago, and I mean kid, he's 20.
So far I am not feeling it with the new guy. He steps all over me on the comms, and seems bored.

I guess time will tell. Winters coming in the northeast, so maybe its time for a break from flying so I can study for the written.

 

[Unit74]

I've been with the same CFI for my IR, Commercial, and currently my CFI training. His plan was to go to the airlines but I don't think he wants to do that anymore. The Chief CFI just went to Air Wisconsin and left a lot of students behind but they all knew his intention was to go to the airlines. My CFI is now the Chief CFI. I personally wouldn't be offended if he left for an airline and moved on to bigger and better things.

I subscribe to a different theory in that you should not train exclusively with the same CFI. There are a million ways to do it, but you only get their way. You are limiting your repertoire of experience to one person. That's poor judgement in my book.

 

[dlsmith]

I subscribe to a different theory in that you should not train exclusively with the same CFI. There are a million ways to do it, but you only get their way. You are limiting your repertoire of experience to one person. That's poor judgement in my book.

I agree with this, although it is aggravating having a CFI leave mid rating. Around here that's common though, especially with our guys qualifying for the RATP at 1k hours

 

[James331]

Some of those guys don't know what they are going to be doing tomorrow, nor do they plan more than a day ahead.

You should find a working pilot who CFIs on the side.

When I left the last place I was instructing, I made it a point to set the dates so I could finish my guys off, I also didn't take on any more students when I knew I was leaving (minus BFRs, complex endorsements etc).

It's just doing the right thing, besides the aviation community is a small place, best not to burn people IMO.

 

[Seanaldinho]

Maybe it's just me, but when I start my training, I was planning on making it very clear to wherever I go that I don't want anybody who might pack it up and head off for an airline during the process.

In fact, I'd prefer to find an instructor who could train me not just on the initial PPL, but all the stuff afterwards like instrument, multi, etc.

I know life events can take somebody in a different direction, and that could be unavoidable, but if the CFI knows in advance they might head off for an airline, or some other opportunity, before I'm done, I'd rather not start down the path with them.

The old "I don't want to switch horses in midstream" kind of thing I guess.

Is that too demanding when trying to find an instructor, or do others feel the same?

I flew with 3 instructors during my private training. The first was retired air force, flew some for a consulting agency, flew some for border patrol, and then got a job doing flight testing. I still talk to him and we fly in his plane from time to time. Great guy. The second was retired marine corps, and flies for a company that teaches foreign air forces how to fly F-5s. Great guy. The third was a younger guy don't know much about his background but he was working towards his airline days. Good guy.

I thoroughly enjoyed flying with multiple instructors. Strengthened my confidence that I knew I was doing it right.

 

[N747JB]

I had one CFi for my PPL way back in 1984! My son has had 5 and he's not quite finished!
1. Was a great guy and a flew for our local FBO in their charter department, he got him through his solo and his written, then took a job out of state.
2. Recommended by #1, Thomas flew with him a couple times, didn't really like the guy.
3. Older guy, teaches ground school, good instructor, lost his medical.
4. Met a local CFI in Athens, where Thomas goes to school, they flew a couple times, I'm not sure what happened, but it wasn't a good fit.
5. Another local Athens guy, probably late 60's or early 70's, former DPE, seems tough, but Thomas loves him! His goal is to get his check ride done before Christmas.

 

[MtPJimB]

48Dodge, are you training with Coastal Aviation? That's who I did my training with at KLRO in 2006. I went through 4 different instructors while I was with them. Glad you were able to stick with one this far. Sounds like you are close to finishing up.

 

[jordane93]

I subscribe to a different theory in that you should not train exclusively with the same CFI. There are a million ways to do it, but you only get their way. You are limiting your repertoire of experience to one person. That's poor judgement in my book.

I wouldn't call it bad judgement. I'm comfortable with my CFI and found a style of learning that I like and is easy for me to relate to.

 

[James331]

I subscribe to a different theory in that you should not train exclusively with the same CFI. There are a million ways to do it, but you only get their way. You are limiting your repertoire of experience to one person. That's poor judgement in my book.

Your theory isn't one that gets things done.

Switching is just CFIs just turns your flight training into a cluster fark.

That's coming from someone who has had both sides of the coin as a students, and someone who has trained a bunch of folks as a CFI.

To each their own, but 9 times out of 10 it's going to cost you hours and headache. Just get your ticket with one good CFI, then start flying with other folks and learning other styles (don't have to be CFIs ether)

 

[48dodge]

48Dodge, are you training with Coastal Aviation? That's who I did my training with at KLRO in 2006. I went through 4 different instructors while I was with them. Glad you were able to stick with one this far. Sounds like you are close to finishing up.

I'm with Palmetto. My CFI started hinting around several months ago that he was stepping up his job search. Then a couple months ago he told me he had a job interview. I even said I'd be a reference for him. The only one to be blamed for me not finishing up with him is me. And like I said, I finished all of my requirements with him just need to go through some final polishing and a mock with another CFI with Palmetto which is their standard procedure. I've been up with 3 other CFIs during the last year.

 

[N747JB]

My son knew his first CFI was moving out of state for almost 2 months, but he kept putting it off. I don't think he realized what a difference there can be between two CFI's!

I'm with Palmetto. My CFI started hinting around several months ago that he was stepping up his job search. Then a couple months ago he told me he had a job interview. I even said I'd be a reference for him. The only one to be blamed for me not finishing up with him is me. And like I said, I finished all of my requirements with him just need to go through some final polishing and a mock with another CFI with Palmetto which is their standard procedure. I've been up with 3 other CFIs during the last year.

 

[Captain]

You guys insisting on a single CFI are being self centered pricks. Sorry, but you may notice flying is expensive and barely a drop of the money you're paying is going to the one guy trying to eek out a living.

What do CFIs make? $20 an hour? $30? That's per flight hour too, so your two hour flight netted him $60. And then they're grounded for issues out of their control. Bad weather, student no shows, broken planes...whatever.

There's money to be made as a pilot out there. Contract Gulfstream pilots are pulling $1500 to $2500 a day...and you're upset your $30/hour serf wants a better life? **** off.

 

[James331]

You guys insisting on a single CFI are being self centered pricks. Sorry, but you may notice flying is expensive and barely a drop of the money you're paying is going to the one guy trying to eek out a living.

What do CFIs make? $20 an hour? $30? That's per flight hour too, so your two hour flight netted him $60. And then they're grounded for issues out of their control. Bad weather, student no shows, broken planes...whatever.

There's money to be made as a pilot out there. Contract Gulfstream pilots are pulling $1500 to $2500 a day...and you're upset your $30/hour serf wants a better life? **** off.

Low pay is no excuse for not being straight with people and not doing what you say you're going to do.

Without ethics like that you'll never make the bucks anyway.

 

[Captain]

Low pay is no excuse for not being straight with people and not doing what you say you're going to do.

Without ethics like that you'll never make the bucks anyway.

I'm don't understand where in my post you see me saying CFIs should lie or be unethical.

There are two sides to the relationship. One side is a low pay CFI trying to impart knowledge while at the same time build experience. The other side is a customer who wants to learn and extract value. It's unreasonable to expect to pay a low salary AND retain talent. You can have one but not both.

If your $30 an hour instructor gets hired and has an opportunity to better his or her life then you say "congratulations!" and maybe pay for lunch. To whine and complain that their acceptance of the job is going to negatively impact your precious training that you pay so little for (to them I mean...I know it's expensive overall) is shallow, self centered and, quite frankly, very ugly.

 

[jordane93]

I'm don't understand where in my post you see me saying CFIs should lie or be unethical.

There are two sides to the relationship. One side is a low pay CFI trying to impart knowledge while at the same time build experience. The other side is a customer who wants to learn and extract value. It's unreasonable to expect to pay a low salary AND retain talent. You can have one but not both.

If your $30 an hour instructor gets hired and has an opportunity to better his or her life then you say "congratulations!" and maybe pay for lunch. To whine and complain that their acceptance of the job is going to negatively impact your precious training that you pay so little for (to them I mean...I know it's expensive overall) is shallow, self centered and, quite frankly, very ugly.

I agree with you on this one. I certainly would not be offended if my CFI left for the airlines and moved on to better things. I would be a little bummed out because he is a great instructor but I would also be happy for advancing his career

 

[frfly172]

Why would you want to hold a CFI back in their career. I understand it takes work to find a good CFI,but you can find another.

 

[LoneAspen]

You guys insisting on a single CFI are being self centered pricks. Sorry, but you may notice flying is expensive and barely a drop of the money you're paying is going to the one guy trying to eek out a living.

What do CFIs make? $20 an hour? $30? That's per flight hour too, so your two hour flight netted him $60. And then they're grounded for issues out of their control. Bad weather, student no shows, broken planes...whatever.

There's money to be made as a pilot out there. Contract Gulfstream pilots are pulling $1500 to $2500 a day...and you're upset your $30/hour serf wants a better life? **** off.

I don't know if this was addressed to me or not, but in case it was, I'll throw in my opinion...

My desire to find one CFI when I start my training has NOTHING to do with finances. Theirs or mine. If a good CFI charges $30 an hour, fine I'll pay it. If it's $50 an hour, I'll pay it. If it's $100 an hour, I'll pay it. It won't make any difference to me, because as long as I find somebody good, who knows their stuff, is safe, teaches me how to be safe, I'll pay them whatever they feel is appropriate for their services. I'm a firm believer in "you get what you pay for" and if a "better" (subjective I know) instructor costs more, so be it. I'll pay it.

So now that any financial or "cheapness" issues are out of the way...

What I'm saying is that I want to find somebody who's not planning on leaving partway through because in the back of their mind, they're already on the lookout for their next gig. And I don't care what that next gig is. It could be moving to an airline, moving to a different part of the country, retiring, etc. I understand things can change suddenly, like a CFI might have a medical emergency, etc. I understand that.

But if in the back of their mind, they're actively planning on moving on to something else which could interrupt training, I'd rather not even start with them. I'd rather find somebody who's feet are firmly planted in the CFI role for the next "x" number of months it takes me to complete.

And, if finding that kind of stability and quality of training requires me paying double, so be it. Like I said, my desire to find one person and stick with them has nothing to do whatsoever with trying to be cheap.

 

[James331]

Why would you want to hold a CFI back in their career. I understand it takes work to find a good CFI,but you can find another.

You're not holding them back, they are being unprofessional.

If you know you won't be able to finish a student up, ESPECIALLY a PPL or IFR guy, don't take the student on.

What you end up doing is costing them extra hours, extra money, and stunt their learning.

Maybe I held myself to a weird standard or something, but I finish what I start, shy of the student washing out or running out if cash or something, if you start with a guy finish him up, if you know you're leaving don't take more students on.

 

[James331]

There are two sides to the relationship. One side is a low pay CFI trying to impart knowledge while at the same time build experience. The other side is a customer who wants to learn and extract value. It's unreasonable to expect to pay a low salary AND retain talent. You can have one but not both.

What does their pay have to do with anything!

This is like how low pay employes call in sick, or text on the job.... "Well if I was paid enough to care I wouldn't be screwing around" Same stupid logic.

If you act as a professional you'll end up being paid/hired as a professional.

The fact that you're paid 25-30hr isn't an excuse to start people on their PPLs, log the hours and have them spend the cash, just to up and leave for "greener pastures".

 

[jordane93]

You're not holding them back, they are being unprofessional.

If you know you won't be able to finish a student up, ESPECIALLY a PPL or IFR guy, don't take the student on.

What you end up doing is costing them extra hours, extra money, and stunt their learning.

Maybe I held myself to a weird standard or something, but I finish what I start, shy of the student washing out or running out if cash or something, if you start with a guy finish him up, if you know you're leaving don't take more students on.

I disagree. You can still be professional about it. When the Chief CFI left for Air Wisconsin, he didn't leave his students in the dust. He left them with competent instructors that he hand picked and knew would get the job done. I don't understand this demonization (if that's a word) of CFI's that want to move on to bigger and better things and go to the airlines.

 

[Captain]

What does their pay have to do with anything!

This is like how low pay employes call in sick, or text on the job.... "Well if I was paid enough to care I wouldn't be screwing around" Same stupid logic.

If you act as a professional you'll end up being paid/hired as a professional.

The fact that you're paid 25-30hr isn't an excuse to start people on their PPLs, log the hours and have them spend the cash, just to up and leave for "greener pastures".

Short sighted and self centered. If you want a CFI from start to finish then find a career CFI and pay the rate. They exist and charge a ton more for their time. If your going to the local FBO and using the guy building time then you know what you're getting...a guy who could and should jump at a career boost.

Further, it's none of your business if someone else is looking for another job.

 

[dlsmith]

I disagree. You can still be professional about it. When the Chief CFI left for Air Wisconsin, he didn't leave his students in the dust. He left them with competent instructors that he hand picked and knew would get the job done. I don't understand this demonization (if that's a word) of CFI's that want to move on to bigger and better things and go to the airlines.

This is how it works around here. And the instructors here don't take new students if they know they're leaving before they could finish them up. But, often times they leave on short notice, and have to leave their student with another instructor. It also helps that we have a part 141 syllabus that is followed fairly strictly, so it's easy to pull out a student binder, see what has and hasn't been covered, and see any deficiencies that need to be addressed via instructor comments.

 

[James331]

I disagree. You can still be professional about it. When the Chief CFI left for Air Wisconsin, he didn't leave his students in the dust. He left them with competent instructors that he hand picked and knew would get the job done. I don't understand this demonization (if that's a word) of CFI's that want to move on to bigger and better things and go to the airlines.

Nothing wrong with moving on, just finish what you started first

I did it and it wasn't any skin off my back, saved my students headache and money, and most importantly it was the right thing to do.

Aviation is a small industry, doing right by folks always pays off.

 

[Captain]

Nothing wrong with moving on, just finish what you started first

I did it and it wasn't any skin off my back, saved my students headache and money, and most importantly it was the right thing to do.

Aviation is a small industry, doing right by folks always pays off.

So in your world a CFI making peanuts should either turn away students on the chance he gets hired (lose money) or delay training for the next place until his students figure out how to pass a check ride (lose money)


Either way you want the guy eating ramen noodles to lose money???

When I went to the airline I was carrying around 8 students. Maybe that's the issue. I suspect you were at a place with one student who was close to check ride anyway.

 

[48dodge]

I'm really not sure how my post about me losing a cfi/friend to an airline has turned into a CFI bashing thread.

 

[Captain]

Maybe it's just me, but when I start my training, I was planning on making it very clear to wherever I go that I don't want anybody who might pack it up and head off for an airline during the process.

In fact, I'd prefer to find an instructor who could train me not just on the initial PPL, but all the stuff afterwards like instrument, multi, etc.

I know life events can take somebody in a different direction, and that could be unavoidable, but if the CFI knows in advance they might head off for an airline, or some other opportunity, before I'm done, I'd rather not start down the path with them.

The old "I don't want to switch horses in midstream" kind of thing I guess.

Is that too demanding when trying to find an instructor, or do others feel the same?

This would be the post that got the ball rolling. Pilots are opinionated. Some feel strongly that anything negatively affects them is 'unprofessional'...I suppose that applies to both sides of this argument. I take the side of the underdog though and that's clearly the CFI.

I say congrats to your friend and hope he likes CapeAir. I know a ton of very solid pilots that have come from there.

 

[woodchucker]

I had two CFIs. The first took me about 80% of the way... and then there was an issue with his medical and training PPL students, so I was switched to another. Maybe an extra short flight on top of my training, but that was about it. And I got a different perspective on a few things. All in all, I disagree with those arguing about "cost of training". Flying is not a cheap hobby, and if you struggle paying a few extra hundred dollars for an additional flight, then the hobby probably is not for you. There is no price on safety.