Too pushy FBO's

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Mtns2Skies

Final Approach
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Mtns2Skies
Maybe it's just because I've moved to the middle of nowhere, but I've learned to appreciate being left along and me only talking to FBO's strictly when I need something. Recently (maybe a part of plane ownership) I've seen some FBO's trying to do too much or get upset when I only want the bare minimum of services. Some examples:

FBO in WI:
I was in a community hangar, and they wouldn't let me push my own plane out (which I get for liability reasons) but instead of just leaving the plane outside the hangar which would have been my preference, they tow it across the entire airport to park it in front. When I ask them to not do this they say they're a "Full Service FBO so we'll go ahead and do that for you" When I say a bit more forcefully that I'd prefer to get the plane outside the hangar and its less work for the line guys they again push back with "Well this is our policy" wtf happened to accommodating customers... especially when I want them to do LESS work?

This FBO also gets on the CTAF frequency which is shared across many frequencies ANYTIME a plane lands full stop to say "Welcome to XXXXX Aviation how may we serve you today" regardless of how busy the frequency is.

Signature at BJC in CO:
I land and park in a tie-down spot all on my lonesome (I used to be local so I know what I'm doing) and tie-down the plane and walk in to the FBO to let them know I was here and to give contact info. Front desk person says

CSR: "Were you marshalled into a spot?"
Me "No I know where to park I'm local."
CSR (dripping with attitude): "Well how are we supposed to know you're here then?"
Me (in a deadpan stare): "What do you think I'm doing right now?"
CSR: Scoffs and shakes her head openly, then gets on the radio to the line guys and says "We have a customer that decided to park himself on the tie downs and APPARENTLY he tied himself down, are we going to have to move him?"
Line guy "Nope he's all set that sounds great"

I don't want these FBO's to be handling my plane anymore than necessary and I don't want the line guys to do anymore work than necessary (I'm an ex line guy), why do they insist on being pains in the butt and not welcoming my wishes that involve less work for them?

Edit: the Legend Aeroserve FBO in Cheyenne WY CYS was by far the best one I've ever hangared with. The guys really appreciated me doing all the work, opening the hangar moving my own plane and I appreciated being left alone. I only got them if there was another plane infront of mine. It was a lovely understanding and I really appreciated all of the guys up there. They were also incredibly nice guys that were great to shoot the **** with.
 
Talk with the manager about your concerns?
 
ejensen said:
FBO bought a new front fork truss for my Mooney. I warned them not to tow but...........
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That must be why Signature wouldn't tow mine recently. Parked out front where the marshaller directed (after waiting for him to notice me coming in), unloaded, put on canopy cover and went inside to do paperwork. Then they radioed in that I needed to taxi the plane to tiedowns a quarter mile away instead of being towed . . .
 
Mtns2Skies said:
That WAS the manager (in Wisconsin anyway). I've since found a T hangar.
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So the manager wouldn't budge at all? Yeah that's pretty bad I agree. I can see moving to out of the hangar, but if you prefer to have it where you want they should comply. Ahh well, you moved from WI anyway didn't you?
 
A lot of people refuse to take the responsibility for you taking the responsibility for your airplane.

Policies are established, and too often the first order of business when something happens is determining who's to blame rather than solving the problem, so nobody's willing to do anything that might be perceived as a violation of policy.
 
As we all know most things in aviation are very proceduralized, usually for a very good reason – although that reason sometimes it’s hard to determine.

Whenever you get outside the procedures it causes problems.

Little room nowadays in aviation for people who want “to do their own thing”. Especially at the larger corporate and commercial airports.
 
If I parked my plane on a ramp with line service and it got damaged by some guy who insisted in doing his own thing I would be quite upset with the FBO.
 
Clip4 said:
If I parked my plane on a ramp with line service and it got damaged by some guy who insisted in doing his own thing I would be quite upset with the FBO.
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That's probably one of the more legitimate reasons for most of these issues...but it's relatively easy to solve. Just have the line guy who would otherwise be moving the airplane serve as a wing walker, and if your airplane is damaged by someone doing his own thing, blame the someone, not the FBO.
 
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To the OP: seems like might be two somehat different situations in your examples. The first seems, as you noted, a case of an overzealous FBO hustling for business. The second seemed (to me) a front desk staffer badly in need of some customer service training, and maybe not the whole FBO operation? Unfortunately attitudes like that are becoming more prevalent in every walk of life these days.

Just as a general observation, with the trends in GA the past few decades as I travel around I sense there are a small number of FBOs nationwide (e.g. select airports) that do very, very well and a much larger number at smaller centres that in the face of rising costs, rising regulations and declining GA traffic are working just to keep their business viable.
 
Hank S said:
That must be why Signature wouldn't tow mine recently. Parked out front where the marshaller directed (after waiting for him to notice me coming in), unloaded, put on canopy cover and went inside to do paperwork. Then they radioed in that I needed to taxi the plane to tiedowns a quarter mile away instead of being towed . . .
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Probably, some FBO have a turntable type device for the front wheel so they don't have to turn the wheel.
 
Wow, I am in a community hangar and our line guys will pretty much do anything I ask within reason. Of course our ramp is directly in front of the community hangar so there wouldn't be anywhere else to take it but right out front but still... wow.

Also for an FBO to get crabby with you for parking yourself? Really?? I park myself more often than not, most full service FBOs I've seen monitor the radio and have someone come out and direct you if they want you parking in a specific place. Now and then I've parked somewhere they didn't like so they would just move me. They move planes all day long it's not that big of a deal.
 
One of the best remarks to a line monkey I have ever heard:
A famous actor (no names, he might be on the board) landed his private jet. I know him from around the airport, and we fly together sometimes, so I walked out to say "howdy".
He was on his way to shoot some scenes for his TV show, and he was in costume. Including holster and fake gun.
As he got out of the plane the line monkey, rushed up with the tow, and without blinking an eye the pilot told him "Touch my plane and I will shoot you in the face."
I piped up "No sweat. I'll take care of the body."
The kid stopped so fast the soles of his sneakers caught fire from the friction.
I burst out laughing, he burst out laughing, the kid thought we were both homicidal maniacs.
In the end he told the kid he was just kidding, autographed the kids work shirt, asked him to clean the windows and handed him $100.00.
I hear through the grapevine he took all of the FBO monkeys who were in high school and college, down to the city one day, as his guest, so they could watch them shoot part of an episode of the show.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Edit: the Legend Aeroserve FBO in Cheyenne WY CYS was by far the best one I've ever hangared with. The guys really appreciated me doing all the work, opening the hangar moving my own plane and I appreciated being left alone. I only got them if there was another plane infront of mine. It was a lovely understanding and I really appreciated all of the guys up there. They were also incredibly nice guys that were great to shoot the **** with.
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Glad to hear this as I plan to retire in that area.
 
the Legend Aeroserve FBO in Cheyenne WY CYS was by far the best one I've ever hangared with. The guys really appreciated me doing all the work, opening the hangar moving my own plane and I appreciated being left alone.
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You might enjoy Basin Aviation, at Midland Airpark, KMDD, in Texas. I hate it. It's a full service FBO that offers me no services. I can't get an employee to lift a finger to help me, no matter what.
 
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denverpilot said:
Why CYS? It’s just a northern suburb of Denver? It ain’t bad, but there’s lots nicer places in WY to live.
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That is why I said area...:lol:

Actually I will be looking for property north of Laramie in the Bosler/Rock River area. With age I'll need to be within driving distance of a good medical facility.
 
NoHeat said:
You might enjoy Basin Aviation, at Midland Airpark, KMDD, in Texas. I hate it. It's a full service FBO that offers me no services. I can't get an employee to lift a finger to help me, no matter what.
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Let me be clear. The guys at Legend would have happily and willingly done the work (and well), but they knew I preferred to do it and accommodated that for me. - Unlike many other FBOs I've recently been dealing with.
 
I’ve gotten back into flying four years ago after a 15 year break. I fly about 120 hours a year now, nearly all cross-country for personal travel. I’m also very particular about who touches my plane. So far, I haven’t had a single issue by any FBO employee or policy. I’ve told them what I want, and they’ve been happy to accommodate.
 
I landed in Page many years ago and on CTAF clearly indicated we were taxiing to FBO1, then a golf cart appeared in front of us with the follow me sign, after a few seconds we realized they were guiding us to FBO2 , when we stopped following him he turned around and swerved directly in front of us by only a few feet. Guy was an idiot
 
ktup-flyer said:
The FBO here is paying for my nose wheel pant to be repainted. I wish line guys treated the planes as if they owned then like I did when I was a ramp rat.
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I saw @Salty 's nosewheel from a different thread, I would whack some sense into some line guys if they were reckless with the towbar like that!
Km2bRIn.jpg
 
MauleSkinner said:
A lot of people refuse to take the responsibility for you taking the responsibility for your airplane.

Policies are established, and too often the first order of business when something happens is determining who's to blame rather than solving the problem, so nobody's willing to do anything that might be perceived as a violation of policy.
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Example. Middle of the winter and a pilot's plane wouldn't start (really nice RV-6). The hangars are huge and heated and he asked if we could move his plane to the hangar so it could warm up a bit before trying again. I said absolutely, then got stopped by the safety manager. Apparently it is "dangerous" to move an aircraft that far and it's a liability so we weren't going to help the guy out. The pilot said he didn't mind, just move the thing to the hangar for him by any means. The safety manager said no, we asked him what the danger was, he said he'd "talk about it later". My boss and I just pushed it from the line to the hangar and helped the pilot on his way. I got so insanely frustrated with that place, trying to help out GA pilots and being shut down, "they only bring in a few dollars compared to the big jets" mentality was poison. I'd grab our A/C cart and pipe some awesome cold air into their aircraft when they arrived so it wasn't 150*F inside for startup. Moved planes that should have been towed into the hangar overnight for cold weather into our heated hangars to thaw out and helped them de-ice them, even brought coffee and snacks down. Helped one of our tenants with a really nice 182 tow his plane in range of a faucet from the group hangar so he didn't have to pull it himself.

Every customer is important. We even had "Ritz-Carlton" customer service training and people agreed wholeheartedly that every customer was important and I saw so little of that attitude go towards the day-to-day business.
 
Clip4 said:
They sell a nice little lock so line guys can’t tug a Mooney.
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So the little FBOs can't tow...... mine has a wheel scoop tug. Won't stop them.
 
Helps a lot if you have your own hangar and move you own plane in and out. Then you know how to do it right and not damage it and you dont have to put up with line guys who dont know what they are doing (not as well as you anyway). Uppity incompentents are best if EXCLUDED. Remember, its YOUR airplane.
 
ktup-flyer said:
My tire has mysteriously flat too... still waiting on a T hangar
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Not necessarily the flat tire, look at the markings around the hole:
kdIZ9KR.png


These adapters drop into those holes so you can tow the aircraft:
BrackettAdapters.jpg


The towbar fits onto the adapter. All the paint scratches are from line techs not having the towbar wide enough or scratching the towbar against the fork. I was always ultra careful to avoid that and to take my time and hold the towbar securely instead of trying to lever it from as far as possible away to save time. One of the 182 guys had a cover that sat on top of his brand spanking new painted nosewheel pant and it still got scratched. I'd be livid!
 
overdrive148 said:
Not necessarily the flat tire, look at the markings around the hole:
kdIZ9KR.png


These adapters drop into those holes so you can tow the aircraft:
BrackettAdapters.jpg


The towbar fits onto the adapter. All the paint scratches are from line techs not having the towbar wide enough or scratching the towbar against the fork. I was always ultra careful to avoid that and to take my time and hold the towbar securely instead of trying to lever it from as far as possible away to save time. One of the 182 guys had a cover that sat on top of his brand spanking new painted nosewheel pant and it still got scratched. I'd be livid!
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I’ll take a pic of mine when I run to the airport... not pretty
 
overdrive148 said:
Example. Middle of the winter and a pilot's plane wouldn't start (really nice RV-6). The hangars are huge and heated and he asked if we could move his plane to the hangar so it could warm up a bit before trying again. I said absolutely, then got stopped by the safety manager. Apparently it is "dangerous" to move an aircraft that far and it's a liability so we weren't going to help the guy out. The pilot said he didn't mind, just move the thing to the hangar for him by any means. The safety manager said no, we asked him what the danger was, he said he'd "talk about it later". My boss and I just pushed it from the line to the hangar and helped the pilot on his way. I got so insanely frustrated with that place, trying to help out GA pilots and being shut down, "they only bring in a few dollars compared to the big jets" mentality was poison. I'd grab our A/C cart and pipe some awesome cold air into their aircraft when they arrived so it wasn't 150*F inside for startup. Moved planes that should have been towed into the hangar overnight for cold weather into our heated hangars to thaw out and helped them de-ice them, even brought coffee and snacks down. Helped one of our tenants with a really nice 182 tow his plane in range of a faucet from the group hangar so he didn't have to pull it himself.

Every customer is important. We even had "Ritz-Carlton" customer service training and people agreed wholeheartedly that every customer was important and I saw so little of that attitude go towards the day-to-day business.
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If the service is good on a small sale or product, then in the future that business gets more of my money. Otherwise I go someplace else. Both my parents were in sales, and they knew that the small $ customer can easily turn into $$$$ with good service. Took one of my radios to a local avionics shop for a new harness. It gathered dust for months, even tho I called frequently to check on status. I finally drove over to the shop, picked up the radio (no new harness) and told the owner that not only did he lose the relatively small sale on the harness, but he also lost the ADSB sale and installation, any further avionics work in the future, as well as any recommendations when someone asks for a shop.

It's unfortunate that they have GA dept that works on the high end twins and jets, doesn't have time for the small GA market and aren't candid about it.
 
If the FBO wants to give full service, let them. I know you said you were a line guy and you don’t want to put extra on them. But it is the job they do and what the bosses expect. It is different when d bag pilots treat the line guys like crap and ask for every little thing possible. So I’m sure when you were a line guy, you didn’t mind and probably wanted to go the extra mile for pilots that treated you good and not like some peasant.

And the FBOs that don’t want to do anything extra, not much you can do except try to avoid them, that’s if you can. Sometimes they are the only game in town.
 
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