Too Hot for Comfort?

Chrisgoesflying

Chrisgoesflying

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Chrisgoesflying
I will have to go to Los Angeles in August for an event. The aviator in me says, let's fly our Cherokee 140 (160 HP) there. The voice of reason says, way too hot for comfort that time of the year. I'm used to long x-country flights and I'm used to some mild mountain flying having lived in the Pacific Northwest for a period of time.

I'd be leaving from the Canadian Prairies and right now I looked at two routes.

Route one: Canadian Prairies -> Helena, MT and from there, follow I-15 all the way to Los Angeles. It looks like pretty much high country but not much in terms of mountain ranges and unforgivable terrain. Sure, DA will be a huge issue but that can be mitigated by taking off early in the morning. My biggest concern is heat, not just for comfort but more so for safety of my passengers (my wife and our dog). I'm fine in extreme heat but my two passengers usually don't like anything much over 25 C. That entire I-15 route would get up to 40 C or more on the ground and considering the high ground, we'd only be 3,000 ft above ground, meaning even up in the air, OAT would be in the 30s.

Route two: Canadian Prairies -> Helena, MT -> Follow I-90 to Spokane -> Portland -> Follow I-5 all the way down to Los Angeles. This route has a bit more of actual mountain flying, albeit it doesn't look like anything that I haven't done with a much less capable plane, while I lived in British Columbia. Temperature wise it would be a bit cooler until we get to Northern California at which point we're looking at 40 C again, but it wouldn't be for the entire flight at least. If it does get too hot, we could also simply cross over the coastal range and follow the coast where it should be pretty mild but the terrain is unforgiving there.

What are your thoughts? Is this a trip better left for the cooler months? Especially interested in hearing from pilots who have done this trip, especially if you didn't do it solo. How did your passengers fair and if you brought your dog, how did he/she cope with the heat?

On a side note, up where I live now, it gets really hot in the summer as well but nights cool down a lot so most of my flying is done in the evening at that time of the year. Having said that, it's all flat here so I don't stress over the fact that my flights extend into the night. Flying through the rockies is a different story, I wouldn't want to fly at night on any of the two proposed routes above.
 
Based on our recent experience flying to the East Range (KS and SD) in an NA Arrow, I would be hesitant to do your trip in the dead of summer on a 140 unless flying solo (I've owned a 160hp warrior, with the better climbing taper wing).

That said, if I had to pick, my vote is for the west coast tour (your option #2). If this is a one off, it is what it is. If you're going to be doing this kind of flying more regularly, I'd go into a turbo setup, (turbo normalized is my preference on the cost front, and what I'm looking into to replace the arrow with if our high DA excursions become more frequent). Good luck and fly safe!
 
hindsight2020 said:
Based on our recent experience flying to the East Range (KS and SD) in an NA Arrow, I would be hesitant to do your trip in the dead of summer on a 140 unless flying solo (I've owned a 160hp warrior, with the better climbing taper wing).

That said, if I had to pick, my vote is for the west coast tour (your option #2). If this is a one off, it is what it is. If you're going to be doing this kind of flying more regularly, I'd go into a turbo setup, (turbo normalized is my preference on the cost front, and what I'm looking into to replace the arrow with if our high DA excursions become more frequent). Good luck and fly safe!
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Definitely not a regular trip, it would be a once off. My regular trips are flying between Calgary and Winnipeg and once a year somewhere south, usually in the winter and staying East of the Rocks.
 
Either route could work, IMHO, but each with caveats. The coastal route could present marine fog issues, and then as you mention, once in NorCal, it'll be hot. I-15 route crosses lots of desert-type country. You mentioned early morning departures, that, to me, would be absolutely mandatory. I'd want to plan wheels-up at 6am, and be parked and done for the day by 10 or 11 am. Even if you had a plane with more power, in the mountain/desert west, the bumps can easily start going up to and above 10 or 11,000MSL by noon. So, for me, I'd look at whether or not making the trip with sunrise departure times, and 3 or 4 hour legs each day would be feasible or not. (Just an experienced mountain flyer's opinion).
 
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You might try this routing: if you’re coming down over Flathead lake, turn west after a bit south of the south end/Polson area and eventually intercept I 90. Otherwise, just fly to Helena as planned and follow I 90. But you need not go to Spokane if you don’t have to. Half way across the Idaho panhandle you fly over Kellogg and then Cataldo. At that point there’s a large valley heading southwest to the south end of lake Couer d’Alene. From there it’s a straight shot to the Tri-Cities/Pasco Wa. After crossing into Washington, you’ll go fIrst over the Palouse Hills, then the channeled scablands to the Columbia basin. They call this the evergreen state, but you’re not going to see many trees. Full service airport at Pasco. From there head south over Hermiston, stay clear of the restricted area, and lay in a course for Klamath Falls in southern Oregon. Another full service airport. Then from there go around Mt. Shasta to Redding or Red Bluff and on down to Southern California.

You will definitely want to fly in the early mornings. Lots of rising and descending air currents next to each other due to agriculture. The bumps might chase you up to 10000 or so, if you have oxygen you might want to bring it. In the afternoons in August there will be convective activity. Also some years we have considerable smoke and TFRs from range fires. Just something to be aware of.
 
Does norcal get all the way to 40C? That seems more desert west than coastal west.

I +1 the coastal route. The I-5 corridor between Redding and Medford can be done marginally around 8k but the MEAs approach 12k for a reason. The coastal route is way more sensible, if less populated. If you're VFR only, you'll be needing to watch weather like a hawk, but it's only 100 or so nm of mountains you need to work around.

You can do your #2 route to Eugene OR (KEUG) and poke out to the coast there, returning to the I-5 corridor south of Mt Shasta, somewhere after, say, Crescent City (KCEC) ?
 
I cannot comment on the coastal route having no experience there, but living in Salt Lake I’ve flown to Vegas following I-15. That’s easy peasy if the weather is decent. I also have flown PnP missions (once with my wife from Vegas to Salt Lake). The doggie slept the entire time … probably because we were at 11’5 mostly. That was in a 160 Hp 172. So doable for you if the conditions are good.

Caveat: summer wx inland can be chaotic. Plus we get the smoke from fires on the west side. Last year our region was smothered in smoke. Lot of no go for VFR flights.
 
Get an IcyBreeze to stick in the back seat. It will help
 
Thanks for all the input. The mountains don't worry me too much. Either route looks easy enough following one of the major interstates through the ranges. It's the heat I'm worried about, mostly for my Samoyed dog - they're from Siberia so heat isn't necessarily their thing.

CT583 said:
Get an IcyBreeze to stick in the back seat. It will help
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They look bulky and heavy. Not sure I can fit it, both space wise and weight wise. I already took out the backseats. The dog is rather big, filling out one half of the back. The other side has our travel bags. Plus, full fuel, me, my wife, the dog and two bags usually puts us right at MTWO. I would probably fill the tanks just to tabs instead of full due to the DA at most of the airports out west though.

I'll probably play it by ear. Start going and if I think flying is getting too inconvenient due to heat, smoke, bumps or whatever, we just park the plane where ever we are and rent a car for the rest of the way. I noticed there is a huge time saving component flying from where I'm at in Canada to Helena, MT (9 hours driving vs. 3 hours flying) but then from Helena to LA, we'd only be 5 hours faster flying vs. driving (17 hours driving vs. 5 hours flying). Considering that we wouldn't have to limit driving to early mornings only, we'd probably get to LA faster (in terms of total days) if we just rent a car from Helena, although flying would be a whole lot more fun.
 
The IcyBreeze isn’t too cumbersome. Mine loaded with ice and a freezer pack weighs 47lbs and I just pack my soft(light weight) luggage around it. I know my dogs love it and it keeps my wife exceptionally happy.
 
I live in central California and fly in hot weather regularly. My plane also has a bubble canopy.

A trick I learned years ago was to buy a couple of light quick-dry t shirts ot tank tops. When getting ready to take off hit the nearest restroom and thoroughly soak the shirt - take it off and get the whole thing wet. It will keep you cool long enough to get up to altitude and cooler air.
 
Since you're a "thick blooded" person, and anything above 25c seems "hot" to you, I'd recommend that you pass on this trip.

Cherokee 140(160). Check.
2pax and large dog and luggage. Check.
Following I-15 (which passes thru Vegas, which is as hot as Phoenix much of the time). Check.
Month = August. Check.

That's why there's commercial air transportation, or larger airplanes that get higher and go further.
 
Rgbeard said:
Since you're a "thick blooded" person, and anything above 25c seems "hot" to you, I'd recommend that you pass on this trip.

Cherokee 140(160). Check.
2pax and large dog and luggage. Check.
Following I-15 (which passes thru Vegas, which is as hot as Phoenix much of the time). Check.
Month = August. Check.

That's why there's commercial air transportation, or larger airplanes that get higher and go further.
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I'm the exact opposite of thick blooded. I start to barely feel comfortable at 25 C... My comfort zone is 30-40 C. Different story for my wife and our dog and they're the ones I'm concerned about on that trip.

Airline isn't an option. No way to take the dog with us when flying commercially and no way he's going in the cargo hold of airliner. So, it's either driving, flying in our plane or a combination of both. Larger plane that goes higher would be nice - I could rent my school's twin engine but that would get really expensive really fast.
 
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