Tires: how old is too old?

NoHeat

NoHeat

Final Approach
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If a tire's tread is still good, and there are no punctures, cracking, or other obvious aging of rubber, should it nevertheless be replaced eventually, based just on time?
 
They sound good to me! I operate mainly on grass so mine dry rot before they wear out.
 
How do you recognize the dry rot? By cracking of the rubber surface? Discoloration?
 
I would replace them but that's just me.

Tires are normally such a small percentage of AMU's (aviation monetary units) comparably and they're so important I wouldn't take a chance ...
 
txflyer said:
I would replace them
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Hmm, maybe I was unclear. The question is this: if there's nothing visibly wrong with a tire, is there a reason to replace it based on time, and if so, how many years?

You respond by just saying, yes, you would replace them. That doesn't make sense. I mean, we're supposing there's nothing visibly wrong with it, and I didn't specify its age.
 
If they're not showing dry rot issues (cracks) then fly em.
 
I've never seen an expiration date on my tires. They're judged by condition. Weather checking kills my tires before wear can. Once the checks get bad enough to see cord they're toast.
 
NoHeat said:
If a tire's tread is still good, and there are no punctures, cracking, or other obvious aging of rubber, should it nevertheless be replaced eventually, based just on time?
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I sold my Travelair with the same tires I bought it with 10 years prior, and they weren't new then. Tires will show and feel issues before you need to change them. Sometimes you need tube changes in between tires though.
 
NoHeat said:
Hmm, maybe I was unclear. The question is this: if there's nothing visibly wrong with a tire, is there a reason to replace it based on time, and if so, how many years?

You respond by just saying, yes, you would replace them. That doesn't make sense. I mean, we're supposing there's nothing visibly wrong with it, and I didn't specify its age.
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No.....you don't make sense. Has the aircraft been tied down outside for a time? A long time? How old are the tires, five, ten , fifteen, etc. Years? How many? Are they worn? You are unclear. For sure. His answer makes a great deal of sense. Why take a chance on your tires? They are very important and not an expensive replacement considering.
 
NoHeat said:
Hmm, maybe I was unclear. The question is this: if there's nothing visibly wrong with a tire, is there a reason to replace it based on time, and if so, how many years?

You respond by just saying, yes, you would replace them. That doesn't make sense. I mean, we're supposing there's nothing visibly wrong with it, and I didn't specify its age.
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It does make sense if you want known condition tires.
 
Good tread, no cracks or deformations, roll well, I'd fly em.

Of course many folks like to make aviation as expensive as they can, something about feeling safer if they spend more $$$ or some such nonsense.
 
On both my cessna 195 and my Stearman I went for new tires. They are so important when flying a taildragger. A ground loop can be a disaster. I replaced tires on both and tubes , always tubes too. Not worth the chance. Common sense.
 
Age is dependent on what the atmosphere pollutants are. The "dry rot" is typically not rot in the traditional sense (i.e., a fungus) but certain things such as ozone and so2, etc... attacking the rubber.

As long as the tread is good and the rubber is not degraded, you're fine.
 
NoHeat said:
Hmm, maybe I was unclear. The question is this: if there's nothing visibly wrong with a tire, is there a reason to replace it based on time, and if so, how many years?

You respond by just saying, yes, you would replace them. That doesn't make sense. I mean, we're supposing there's nothing visibly wrong with it, and I didn't specify its age.
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O.k. I made an assumption. An assumption that since you started a thread asking specifically about tires and age that they were old. As usual, assume is spelled ass with a u and me. :rolleyes:

To answer your specific parameters, I have no idea ... I'm not looking at them.. I don't know how old they are, and I don't know what they're on or what kind of duty they perform.

There is no expiration date that I know of on tires. That's all I know. It's a PIC call imo.
 
7 years is what the major tire manufacturers suggest. there is a manufacture date on the tires. its a code made from the year, and week of that year.

-- 1226-- year 12, week 26.
 
How is it I can buy the best aircraft tire and within two weeks I have to put air in it. I can buy the cheapest tire at walmart and a year later it still has the same air pressure. How many years would you drive on a tire for your car if it did not show any problems.
 
Personally, I consider tires something I change on condition---unless they're reallllly old. How old? If say, they're more than 15 years old I'd probably change them no matter what. honestly though, I'm more concerned about the tube than the tire. The valve stem is the weak point of the whole thing and a failure of the valve stem rubber will cause a complete failure of the tire. Hope it's not a tail dragger 'cause it's gonna be a wild ride.
 
NoHeat said:
If a tire's tread is still good, and there are no punctures, cracking, or other obvious aging of rubber, should it nevertheless be replaced eventually, based just on time?
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Chances are they are shot. If they are 6.00 x 6 then fer sure they are shot and you should send them to me for disposal.

Glad I could help prevent a disaster. :D
 
brien23 said:
How is it I can buy the best aircraft tire and within two weeks I have to put air in it. I can buy the cheapest tire at walmart and a year later it still has the same air pressure. How many years would you drive on a tire for your car if it did not show any problems.
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Buy stop leak tubes and you won't have that problem. I fill my tires twice a year. In the early spring during annual and in October when the temps are cooling down.

http://www.desser.com/products_airtubes.php
 
What's not legal? All the Bushwheels I've owned have had the pressure slowly bleed out. Even with $3600 tires that run 4-5# pressure. No wonder they sell Stan's No Tubes sealant on the web and in the shop. My first set I used Green Slime. It worked perfectly. I never added air in the following years. My current set with No Tubes is approaching that.
 
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Stewartb said:
What's not legal? .
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Fix-a-Flat. Slime.

But just like MMO, FSDOs tend to look the other way.

BTW, I have about 30 tires of various sizes on equipment out in my barn. They all have Fix-a-Flat or Slime in them. I've found Slime to be far more effective than F-a-F.
 
timwinters said:
Buy stop leak tubes and you won't have that problem. I fill my tires twice a year. In the early spring during annual and in October when the temps are cooling down.

http://www.desser.com/products_airtubes.php
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Aircraft tire tubes are natural rubber, like cars used to use up until around 50 years ago. Things change way too slowly in this business. Cars and pickups went to tubeless tires a long time ago when I was a kid. Big trucks went to tubeless tires more than 35 years ago. Big airplanes did it, too, a long time ago. Tubeless tires have an internal membrane that is pretty much leakproof. It's not made of natural rubber.

So we still use leaky tubes unless we spend more for "modern" tubes. Tubeless light aircraft tires would need new wheels with a seal between the wheel halves, and a differently machined filler neck hole. More money. We can't get radial tires for our airplanes, either, which would have less rolling resistance and better grip.

On the other hand, we can now buy new Cleveland wheels that use rubber wheel bearing seals! 50 0r 60 years after cars got them...

A brand-new airplane is a study in antique mechanisms.

Dan
 
Field repairs of tubed tires on 2-piece wheels is a breeze. I can't say the same for tubeless tires on 1-piece wheels.
 
Tom-D said:
7 years is what the major tire manufacturers suggest. there is a manufacture date on the tires. its a code made from the year, and week of that year.

-- 1226-- year 12, week 26.
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:yeahthat:
 
FYI, a quote from a Goodyear tire bulletin on Desser's website.

There is no age limit for aircraft tires, provided that they are properly stored and maintained and all inspection criteria are met. Proper storage practices include keeping tires in a cool, dry place out of direct sunlight and away from fluorescent lights, electric motors, and other ozone producers. Care should be taken that tires do not come in contact with oil, gasoline, jet fuel, hydraulic fluids, or similar hydrocarbons. If desired, the age of the tire can be determined from the tire’s serial number, where the first number is the year of production and the next three are the Julian date of manufacture (for example, a tire with serial number 20341111 was built on the 34th day of 2002, i.e. February 3rd). Age combined with ozone or excessive service conditions can cause cracks to form on the sidewalls or in the bottoms of the grooves (known as ozone cracking, weather checking, or groove cracking). This is not a cause for removal unless fabric is visible in the cracks.
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http://www.desser.com/goodyear_faq.php
 
Stewartb said:
Field repairs of tubed tires on 2-piece wheels is a breeze. I can't say the same for tubeless tires on 1-piece wheels.
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First, how often does one need to patch an aircraft tube?

And second, earthmoving equipment has long used multi-piece wheels with tubeless tires. There's a O-ring under the side ring to seal the whole thing. Piece of cake. I used to sell that stuff in the 1970s.

2009519221657330.jpg


Dan
 
I field repair aircraft tires occasionally. Particularly tail wheels. My tool kit includes a patch kit and a tire pump. And proper tools to reach the bolts and nuts on a tail wheel. I learned that one the hard way.

FWIW my summer mains are tubeless. Have been for 13 or 14 years now. In winter I do use tubed 850s with wheel skis. Mine are 22 years old and look fine. I won't be replacing them any time soon.
 
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brien23 said:
How is it I can buy the best aircraft tire and within two weeks I have to put air in it. I can buy the cheapest tire at walmart and a year later it still has the same air pressure. How many years would you drive on a tire for your car if it did not show any problems.
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Because you buy cheap tubes for your plane, car tires are tubeless. Buy better tubes and you hardly ever put air in them. For planes I buy cheap tires and expensive tubes.
 
NoHeat said:
Thank you.

So Goodyear says to replace airplane tires on condition, not age. And a condition that would indicate replacement is sidewall cracking deep enough to show fabric.

That contradicts some of the posts above.
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Yeah, just look at them, it becomes obvious when it's time to change them. If you avoid the brakes, tires last a long time.
 
Stewartb said:
I field repair aircraft tires occasionally. Particularly tail wheels. My tool kit includes a patch kit and a tire pump. And proper tools to reach the bolts and nuts on a tail wheel. I learned that one the hard way.

FWIW my summer mains are tubeless. Have been for 13 or 14 years now. In winter I do use tubed 850s with wheel skis. Mine are 22 years old and look fine. I won't be replacing them any time soon.
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Not much chance for harsh UV exposure up there in AK.
Big difference here in the SW, unless you have pants or wheel covers while parked.

We fly off pavement with the Pawnee, we wear the tread off the tires in the course of a year. Not uncommon to have 50 or more landings in a weekend.
 
My old 29" Bushwheels lasted 10 years before the weather checking bothered me. My new set is covered with canvas tire covers, which are fairly common up here for tundra tires. My average for paved surface ops is zero. Gravel and sand are the norm. Even at home base at Lake Hood. I keep a set of 29x11x10 Air Hawks mounted up in case I fly to America, but that never seems to materialize.
 
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Stewartb said:
My old 29" Bushwheels lasted 10 years before the weather checking bothered me. My new set is covered with canvas tire covers, which are fairly common up here for tundra tires. My average for paved surface ops is zero. Gravel and sand are the norm. Even at home base at Lake Hood. I keep a set of 29x11x10 Air Hawks mounted up in case I fly to America, but that never seems to materialize.
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For a true tundra use tire, I wonder if a permanent canvas cover tight on the tire would work out, especially around sharp rocks.
 
Stewartb said:
Field repairs of tubed tires on 2-piece wheels is a breeze. I can't say the same for tubeless tires on 1-piece wheels.
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Dad had a flat on the T-50 once. and watching him replacing the tire was likend to monkeys and footballs. :yesnod:
 
Dan Thomas said:
First, how often does one need to patch an aircraft tube?

And second, earthmoving equipment has long used multi-piece wheels with tubeless tires. There's a O-ring under the side ring to seal the whole thing. Piece of cake. I used to sell that stuff in the 1970s.

2009519221657330.jpg


Dan
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I've seen some exciting times when the lock ring wasn't properly seated, and the tire inflated.
 
bluerooster said:
I've seen some exciting times when the lock ring wasn't properly seated, and the tire inflated.
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Or the lock ring was the wrong one. Guys used to come into the shop wanting to buy a lock ring and side ring for a 22" wheel, say, but they didn't know what pattern it was. "Just the 'standard" rings," they'd say. I'd tell them that there was no such thing as a standard ring, and that the wrong rings would kill them. I'd insist on the numbers off the wheel itself.

For some examples on various
wheels:

49_budd_catalog.jpg


Budd1972Both2001.jpg


And for some excitement when an incompatible ring comes off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3_PMhBa_-c

There's enough energy in a 10:00-22 tire at 110 psi to launch a 150-pound man 600 feet up into the air.

Dan
 
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