Time in make/model to instruct?

Topper

Topper

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Assume a private pilot is AMEL and wants to obtain his commercial rating in the c310 that he owns. His instructor is has zero time in a 310, but is MEI, ATP, CFIII, type rated in several makes and models, etc. Can he instruct for the commercial in the 310 in the eyes of the FAA? Does he need a specific amount of PIC time in the 310 prior to giving instruction?

Thanks,

Jim
 
FAA doesn't care. But the owners insurance company might.
 
Insurance requirements... And I wouldn't do it unless insurance was happy. The unexpected can happen.
 
Thanks for the replies, I could not find anything that indicated the FAA would care. I have the question into the insurance carrier, but have not heard back.

Thanks,

Jim
 
Topper said:
Assume a private pilot is AMEL and wants to obtain his commercial rating in the c310 that he owns. His instructor is has zero time in a 310, but is MEI, ATP, CFIII, type rated in several makes and models, etc. Can he instruct for the commercial in the 310 in the eyes of the FAA? Does he need a specific amount of PIC time in the 310 prior to giving instruction?

Thanks,

Jim
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Yes, he is rated, but if you already own the plane and are multi rated with it insured in your name, you're already good to be PIC by everyone concerned, so the only thing required of the instructor is an MEI. You may end up teaching them the plane and systems, they need to provide you the Commercial part and provide a signature.
 
Topper said:
Thanks for the replies, I could not find anything that indicated the FAA would care. I have the question into the insurance carrier, but have not heard back.

Thanks,

Jim
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They won't care, you are already insured as PIC.
 
Wouldn't he need 5 hours? Or am I missing something? Here's 61.195:

(f) Training received in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift. A flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift, as appropriate.
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Topper said:
Assume a private pilot is AMEL and wants to obtain his commercial rating in the c310 that he owns. His instructor is has zero time in a 310, but is MEI, ATP, CFIII, type rated in several makes and models, etc. Can he instruct for the commercial in the 310 in the eyes of the FAA? Does he need a specific amount of PIC time in the 310 prior to giving instruction?

Thanks,

Jim
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kevmor99 said:
Wouldn't he need 5 hours? Or am I missing something? Here's 61.195:
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Witmo said:
Good catch.:yes:
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Keep in mind the instructor can give training in the airplane with no time in type. He can't give training that goes towards the certificate. So he can get the first 5 hours with you giving you training it just won't count towards the part of the commercial that requires training from an "authorized instructor".

Smart? I'll leave that for you to decide. But definitely legal.
 
Interesting, not a big issue unless you plan on doing only bare minimum training. Maybe do a nice instrument XC with them to familiarize them with your plane.
 
jesse said:
Keep in mind the instructor can give training in the airplane with no time in type. He can't give training that goes towards the certificate. So he can get the first 5 hours with you giving you training it just won't count towards the part of the commercial that requires training from an "authorized instructor".

Smart? I'll leave that for you to decide. But definitely legal.
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Be very careful with that. I hear it can be kinda like 134.5 ...
 
nosehair said:
Be very careful with that. I hear it can be kinda like 134.5 ...
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Doubt it. I had my first "instrument student" when I wasn't an instrument instructor. Started training him and started working on my CFII at the same time. I double checked with my FSDO and they didn't have a problem with it provided we didn't try to count the hours towards the required "authorized instructor" hours. DPE didn't care either.

Same concept really.
 
kevmor99 said:
Wouldn't he need 5 hours? Or am I missing something? Here's 61.195:
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You're missing nothing. 5 hrs PIC before signing for training to be used to meet an FAA certificate/rating requirement. That said, Jesse is also correct. I've given several people IR training in twins in which I have no prior experience that way. However, I would not do that for initial training for someone not already proficient in the make/model, e.g., an initial ME rating or a type checkout.
 
jesse said:
Doubt it. I had my first "instrument student" when I wasn't an instrument instructor. Started training him and started working on my CFII at the same time. I double checked with my FSDO and they didn't have a problem with it provided we didn't try to count the hours towards the required "authorized instructor" hours. DPE didn't care either.

Same concept really.
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Nope. Not the same concept. An "instrument student" is not a multi-engine student.
Never mind that ME procedures are incorporated into the instrument training. The objective of the training is not initial ME qualification.
 
I don't think it is a good idea to provide training for a certificate in a multiengine you have zero hours of experience in. It is a catch 22 for sure. If you decide to teach in the 310 I would recommend preparing yourself as much as possible studying the aircraft and talking with experienced 310 pilots before going up with him.

Does his 310 have the VG kit installed?
 
nosehair said:
Nope. Not the same concept. An "instrument student" is not a multi-engine student..
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Neither is a PP-AMEL who owns and flies a C-310 and wants to upgrade to CP-AMEL. What the OP asked about is not about learning either the aircraft or ME flying, just becoming more precise about flying an aircraft in which s/he is already qualified and reasonably proficient.
 
Ron Levy said:
Neither is a PP-AMEL who owns and flies a C-310 and wants to upgrade to CP-AMEL. What the OP asked about is not about learning either the aircraft or ME flying, just becoming more precise about flying an aircraft in which s/he is already qualified and reasonably proficient.
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What Ron says.
 
Topper said:
Assume a private pilot is AMEL and wants to obtain his commercial rating in the c310 that he owns. His instructor is has zero time in a 310, but is MEI, ATP, CFIII, type rated in several makes and models, etc. Can he instruct for the commercial in the 310 in the eyes of the FAA? Does he need a specific amount of PIC time in the 310 prior to giving instruction?

Thanks,

Jim
Click to expand...

Gucci Pilot said:
FAA doesn't care. But the owners insurance company might.
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that was my situation getting my instrument rating. My CFII had zero mooney time. I added him to my insurance, and it didn't raise my insurance a nickle. No problem with training.
 
I believe it was 5 hours in type to instruct.
 
FWIW, today, I am going up for the first time with my instructor in MY plane, of which he has no time in type. He told me that for the first 5 hours he cannot log dual for himself. We are shooting approaches, so he is going to log the time as safety pilot for himself.
 
ahkahn said:
FWIW, today, I am going up for the first time with my instructor in MY plane, of which he has no time in type. He told me that for the first 5 hours he cannot log dual for himself. We are shooting approaches, so he is going to log the time as safety pilot for himself.
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Why? Isn't your airplane a PA32R Lance? The 14 CFR Part 61.195 says:

(f) Training received in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift. A flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift, as appropriate.
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Since your airplane is a SEL there is no minimum time in type.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Why? Isn't your airplane a PA32R Lance? The 14 CFR Part 61.195 says:

Since your airplane is a SEL there is no minimum time in type.
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It is. I read the same thing and I plan to mention it to him. He was pretty positive on the 5 hour issue, but I'll kindly remind my CFII to check 61.195.
 
rbridges said:
that was my situation getting my instrument rating. My CFII had zero mooney time. I added him to my insurance, and it didn't raise my insurance a nickle. No problem with training.
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Since Mooneys aren't ME airplanes, that rule doesn't apply. But for the OP with a 310, it most definitely does.
 
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