Thoughts on Vans RV?

LoLPilot

LoLPilot

Line Up and Wait
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Jun 30, 2018
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St. Louis, MO
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LoLPilot
Feel free to drag me on this, because I'm making this a totally open response type of deal. Questions are posted in boldface for the TL/DR types among us (I know you're out there!)

As I posted in Hangar Talk, I'm going to be out in Oklahoma for a year. That's about a 7.5 hour drive home, which includes toll roads. I'm not planning on taking a whole ton of stuff out there, and will be leaving most of my things with family or in storage while I'm there. Since I have several things I will NEED to get back home for, and because I'll want to come back and visit routinely, I've been looking at flying options. When considering planes that I could rent (factoring in speed and rental costs for the flights and keeping them overnight), club planes (again factoring in speed, rental costs, club dues, etc), and owning, the numbers come out shockingly even if I consider what an RV4 or RV6 or 6/A usually goes for. Owning is a bit more expensive on paper, but I'd have greater availability and wouldn't have to worry about overnight penalties, etc.

I am instrument rated, but I am not looking at IFR planes. Mostly because one of the things I discovered during my IR was that I do not like flying in IFR conditions. So does anybody have any real world numbers or advice that they could offer on a basic, VFR equipped RV4 or RV6 or 6/A? I have my tailwheel endorsement, but not a lot of t/w time, and all of that time is in a Decathlon. If I decided not to keep the airplane after my contract is done I would sell it. How stupid is this idea?
 
Personally I think it's a great idea! That's a great mission for an RV-6 and if you have the funds, why not? It doesn't look like there are a lot of RV's on the market currently though. I would suggest posting on an RV forum with your interest in buying. I would also look into who will perform the maintenance or at least the condition inspection. Some mechanics/shops won't work on experimentals (mine being one of them). Good Luck!
 
Hey, fellow St. Louisan! (I'm between Tower Grove park and The Hill).

Given that there aren't many on the market right now, you might dip up to OSH to see if any are for sale up there.
 
Great idea, I’d stop by VAF and see what’s for sale. A VFR only -6 would limit your dispatch options though.
 
Building or buying?

If you have to have the name brand RV, then that's fine. But, if not, have you considered lower cost, similar performance alternatives?
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Building or buying?

If you have to have the name brand RV, then that's fine. But, if not, have you considered lower cost, similar performance alternatives?
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Definitely buying. One of the nuggets of wisdom I've picked up on here is "if you want to build then build, but if you want to fly then buy."

I've considered similar designs like T18's and Mustang II's, but one of the considerations for me is sale-ability. So if, next year, I decided I wanted to get rid of it I know that Vans can move pretty quick if they are priced well because there is a demand for them. I'd be worried about a less well-known alternative just garnering less attention on the market.
 
The only flaw in the plan is that we are pretty much at peak market. You will pay a premium for an RV right now and had better be ready to move fast when a decent buy becomes available. You can still find VFR RV-4's in the mid 40's. Skip the RV-3, although they are great fliers, selling a 1 person airplane is a challenge. A decent RV-6 you are looking at mid 60's and up. 7-8-9's you are talking mid 80's to over 100. Nose wheel planes typically go for a little less but be sure to inspect the nose gear assembly very closely. Airframe is pretty simple and robust so the only issues you are likely to encounter will be engine related. Even at the current market rate you likely will not lose money when it comes time to sell other than what you put into it for maintenance and condition inspections.
 
I bought an RV-6A and have not regretted it. It was a basic VFR 6A, priced in the mid-$40s when I bought it in Dec 2018, but a year in, I upgraded to Garmin all-glass, IFR capable panel which almost doubled my investment cost, but also greatly expanded my flying options. As others have said, the market has only gone up since then, so you'd definitely be looking in the $60s for a decent VFR 6 or 6A. But it's a great plane and I'd encourage you to go for it.
 
Do you have a propensity to think you're Tom Cruise/Maverick from Top Gun? Do you want to paint your small GA airplane to look like a fighter plane? Do you want to fly in formation with your buddies and follow absolutely no rules? Do you want to defend your airplane to the death and zoom climb away from any conversation denigrating it?

If you answered "yes" to all of those questions then an RV might be for you!
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Do you have a propensity to think you're Tom Cruise/Maverick from Top Gun? Do you want to paint your small GA airplane to look like a fighter plane? Do you want to fly in formation with your buddies and follow absolutely no rules? Do you want to defend your airplane to the death and zoom climb away from any conversation denigrating it?

If you answered "yes" to all of those questions then an RV might be for you!
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I'm sure all that was meant as sorta "tongue in cheek", but for a data point, I've been flying my RV-8 for almost 15 years and 1800+ hours and have done none of those things.

But to answer the OP's question, yes, get an RV-4 or -6...
 
jbDC9 said:
I'm sure all that was meant as sorta "tongue in cheek", but for a data point, I've been flying my RV-8 for almost 15 years and 1800+ hours and have done none of those things.

But to answer the OP's question, yes, get an RV-4 or -6...
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Not even a single overhead break? I am dissapoint.
 
LoLPilot said:
I am instrument rated, but I am not looking at IFR planes. Mostly because one of the things I discovered during my IR was that I do not like flying in IFR conditions. So does anybody have any real world numbers or advice that they could offer on a basic, VFR equipped RV4 or RV6 or 6/A? I have my tailwheel endorsement, but not a lot of t/w time, and all of that time is in a Decathlon. If I decided not to keep the airplane after my contract is done I would sell it. How stupid is this idea?
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How scheduled/timely do your flights need to be? We've flown a lot of "IFR flights" in a clear blue sky with a solid layer below us. Climb through a thin layer at the start and fly in the sun and/or descend through a thin layer at the end. With flexibility VFR should work perfectly fine. I'm sure some of my "IFR flights" could be done VFR if I wanted to fly low, but I'm IR and stay current, so I climb up to 9-12k and cruise in cooler, smoother air.

I get not wanting to slog your way through crud for 2-3 hours.
 
jbDC9 said:
I'm sure all that was meant as sorta "tongue in cheek",
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Yes, tongue in cheek. RV's are cool planes paving a path forward for GA in this hyper expensive certified market. I just like making fun of their pilots :).
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Yes, tongue in cheek. RV's are cool planes paving a path forward for GA in this hyper expensive certified market. I just like making fun of their pilots :).
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You forgot how an RV will climb at a deck angle of 45 degrees to 17,500.
 
What about a short body Mooney? Insurance would be more, but it might be easier to sell.
 
Probably want to try a few on. I've been in a couple RVs that were built by double amputees - or seemed like it. They built the panel so low that I couldn't get my feet to the rudder pedals. Others have been fine,
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Do you have a propensity to think you're Tom Cruise/Maverick from Top Gun? Do you want to paint your small GA airplane to look like a fighter plane? Do you want to fly in formation with your buddies and follow absolutely no rules? Do you want to defend your airplane to the death and zoom climb away from any conversation denigrating it?

If you answered "yes" to all of those questions then an RV might be for you!
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Do you want to pretend you’re a cowboy? Do you want to join a club of old men that is actually called cowboys? Do you like to land on pavement and stride past your 35” tundras on the way to the pancake social? Do you want obnoxiously irritate people all over the backcountry?

Then a 180 is for you!

Sorry. It was a little too much to watch the Skywagon groupie bash the RV groupies.
 
AA5Bman said:
Do you want to pretend you’re a cowboy? Do you want to join a club of old men that is actually called cowboys? Do you like to land on pavement and stride past your 35” tundras on the way to the pancake social? Do you want obnoxiously irritate people all over the backcountry?

Then a 180 is for you!

Sorry. It was a little too much to watch the Skywagon groupie bash the RV groupie.
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A little butthurt?

It's pronounced "Mall Crawler" :)
 
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RV sounds like a perfect match for your situation. Cheap-ish to purchase, fast cryise and low fuel burn, plus the ability to do use whatever parts/mods suit your fancy rather than expensive "certified" stuff. I say go for it!
 
Mtns2Skies said:
A little butthurt?

It's pronounced "Mall Crawler" :)
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I see that you’ve edited your post to add a jab, so I guess I should ask if you are a little hurt hurt yourself?
 
Juliet Hotel said:
I would agree. Although to be fair a short-body Mooney would also be very good choice for the OP's mission.
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No doubt, I'd just rather have the repair/maintenance flexibility of the Experimental in his case, especially if you don't need the back seat of the Mooney. Cost to purchase/operate is probably a wash between the two options. Vans don't stay on the market for long.
 
jbDC9 said:
I'm sure all that was meant as sorta "tongue in cheek", but for a data point, I've been flying my RV-8 for almost 15 years and 1800+ hours and have done none of those things.

But to answer the OP's question, yes, get an RV-4 or -6...
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That's like owning a bonanza but never retracting the gear :D
 
If you're not an overly large person, and you just want a fast, economical airplane to go from point A to point B with a small amount of baggage, a well built used and basic VFR equipped RV-4 is gonna be the best bang for the buck IMHO. But, you gotta keep an eye out, and be ready to deal, cause they sell pretty quick.

As far a TW flying, I doubt you'd have much trouble transitioning. Though, I would suggest going to one of the Van's recommended transition training instructors for some dual. Your peace of mind, and your insurance premiums will both benefit.
 
wilkersk said:
a well built used and basic VFR equipped RV-4 is gonna be the best bang for the buck IMHO
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I would argue that a T-18, Mustang 2, Tailwind, etc. has about the same bang but for fewer bucks and thereby have a higher bang / buck ratio. But the OP wants Vans for quick resale, so, whatever.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I would argue that a T-18, Mustang 2, Tailwind, etc. has about the same bang but for fewer bucks and thereby have a higher bang / buck ratio. But the OP wants Vans for quick resale, so, whatever.
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I would point out that all of those aircraft have less interior space than the side by side Van’s models and also have less forgiving low speed characteristics. That doesn’t make them bad choices, but they don’t offer the same all-around utility or availability.
 
Shepherd said:
Honestly, you would be better off in an Arion LS-1 Lightning.
JMHO
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I've looked at the Lightning and I admit they are a tempting option! Aren't they limited to 120 knots with the LSA certification?

Juliet Hotel said:
Van's Aircraft Builders is a private group on FB. Earlier today someone posted a very nice looking VFR RV6 for $75k. Seller is a CFI and is offering TW checkout if needed. I doubt the plane will still be for sale come Monday.

Link below, but I'm not sure it will work if you're not a member of the group.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/vansaircraftbuilders/permalink/10165617981680525/
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I sent a request to join. Is that one red and white? I think I may have seen it on Barnstormers.

As far as IFR, some of it is the fact that I don't consider myself a "good" IFR pilot. I did not feel good about my checkride, to the point where I felt I didn't deserve to pass. More along the lines of I'd be worried about "getting to have a nice conversation with the FAA" if I ever flew IFR than "empirically determining how high the trees are," but I'm still reticent to fly IFR despite really liking the IFR traffic system. It also means I wouldn't have to worry about the expense of maintaining or purchasing an IFR navigational system.

And I'm going flying with my tailwheel instructor tomorrow to start working on flight review stuff and to make sure I remember how to land the planes with the little wheel in the back.
 
For any specific mission, an probably RV isn't the best aircraft. But they're "good enough" at more things than probably any other airplanes.
 
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