Thoughts on PLBs

[cgrab]

I'm planning to buy a PLB and wanted to get input from those who have one or who are also researching a pending purchase.
I've narrowed the search to three options: ResQLimk 2881, ResQLink 2880, and FastFind 220. Here's a table of what I find to be differences:

Name size weight Floats cost
ResQ 2880 S 4.6 oz w/case 190
ResQ 2881 L 5.4 oz yes 200
FF 220 M 5.4 oz w/case 210 flashing light

The sizes are relative to eachother
So, I'm leaning to the FF 220 since it has a flashing light to use when the searchers are close. It also has a case which cuts down on the wear and tear even though it doesn't float without it. The ResQ costs are after the $50 rebate.

Does anyone use any of these and have a review or use anything else they would like to suggest?

 

[RudyP]

I have the regular ResQ Link 2880 and I'm happy with it. I have never used it but it is small enough that I can easily toss it in any pocket if I'm going to use it. Otherwise it fits well in a side pocket by my legs in the plane.

 

[retpd2001]

I have a FF mounted within easy reach in my airplane. If injured it can be operated with one hand. They say the battery is good for 5 years, then the factory has to replace it. Mine is about 5 years old and the battery test fine. Hope this helps.

 

[kgruber]

They are all in on the big scam of no user replaceable batteries.

 

[bnt83]

They are all in on the big scam of no user replaceable batteries.

Say you crash and need to use the thing but the battery is toast, how many pilots carry a slug of AA batteries for flashlights and headsets?

I bet a jury would find that interesting

 

[Silvaire]

I have a FastFind that I've had for about five years now. I've kept it in the pocket of the vest that I always wear when flying. Never got the flotation case figuring if it's on me and I ain't floating what's the use. I also have carried it in a pocket when hiking and mountain biking solo. So long as you know the limitations of a PLB in that you need to be conscious and capable of activating it after the event it's another asset in your favor if the situation arises that you need such a thing.

The downside is that you pay three hundred bucks for a new toy you don't even get to play with when it arrives.

I think the ResQ might have an edge on the FastFind as it's even smaller and lighter. The FastFind was the first pocket-sized PLB that came on the market about 6 or 7 years ago.

 

[kgruber]

Say you crash and need to use the thing but the battery is toast, how many pilots carry a slug of AA batteries for flashlights and headsets?

I bet a jury would find that interesting

Spoken like one who has a difficult time replacing batteries in a flashlight.

 

[bnt83]

Spoken like one who has a difficult time replacing batteries in a flashlight.

I have a hard time doing a lot of things dude.

 

[DFH65]

I have a hard time doing a lot of things dude.

This made me laugh. Great come back.

 

[James331]

I probably will be getting a SPOT.

Lots of my friends have them, ranging from hikers, to backcountry pilots, kayack folks, etc, all of them love the things.

 

[chartbundle]

I have the 2880, I'd say I'm very happy with it, but that's mostly the size since I've never had to use it. It always goes with me when I'm flying. Factory battery replacement looks to be 5 years at $125 or so.

 

[asicer]

I have the 2880, I'd say I'm very happy with it, but that's mostly the size since I've never had to use it. It always goes with me when I'm flying. Factory battery replacement looks to be 5 years at $125 or so.

Do you think that in 5 years they'll have an equivalent new model that's smaller/better/cheaper? Or do you think they'll still be selling the same thing at the same price? I'm wondering if the battery replacement cycle is part of a planned obsolescence.

 

[N801BH]

Do you think that in 5 years they'll have an equivalent new model that's smaller/better/cheaper? Or do you think they'll still be selling the same thing at the same price? I'm wondering if the battery replacement cycle is part of a planned obsolescence.

I am betting it is......

 

[dans2992]

Delorme inreach. Being able to communicate with rescuers could prove valuable. Plus you can send emails to your friends/family...

 

[chartbundle]

Do you think that in 5 years they'll have an equivalent new model that's smaller/better/cheaper? Or do you think they'll still be selling the same thing at the same price? I'm wondering if the battery replacement cycle is part of a planned obsolescence.

They already have more fancy models out, but I'm not really seeing the attraction, size is good and I assume it functions as advertised(open antenna, push button). I doubt prices will drop much.

I actually do have a deLorme inReach SE as well, but I don't consider it a SAR device. I consider it a fun toy for people to see where I'm flying but that's about it.

 

[Gsxrpilot]

+1 for SPOT. I carry it for my wife. She can follow my progress online and knows immediately when I've landed safe.

 

[airdale]

cgrab, both SPOT and DeLorme have been mentioned here. You should understand that these are pieces of consumer electronics and are not PLBs at all. This means that they are not built or tested to any kind of 3rd party specification. In addition, both of them require that you pay for a subscription. (There is a third contender, too, but the name escapes me right now.) The cost of the subscriptions will quickly wipe out any savings in the initial price.

They are monitored by the companies that market them. The level of initial and recurrent training of the monitoring personnel is determined by people trying to make a profit. They are also only loosely connected to the COSPAS/SARSAT system. I know that LockMart/Flight Service have been working to get them more effectively plugged in, however.

They are wonderful toys, transmitting your position to friends and family and offering some hope that they might be useful in an accident situation. But they are not PLBs.

To your specific question, I have a FastFind. Since I haven't used it (fortunately) there's not much I can tell you except that it seems well made and is compact enough that I can carry it on my belt. I don't consider it to be a replacement for a 406mhz ELT but rather to be a supplement. There are plenty of plausible scenarios where I will not be able to operate the PLB, just as there are plausible scenarios where the ELT does not trigger or its signal is reduced by antenna damage or submersion.

Yes, BTW, the non-user-replaceable batteries are a bit of a racket. But having them replaced also gets you an instrumented test to make sure that the divice is operating properly.

 

[dell30rb]

The spot is definitely a personal locator beacon. It easily stays on your person, it locates you, via a transmission.

 

[airdale]

The spot is definitely a personal locator beacon. It easily stays on your person, it locates you, via a transmission.

Call it what you like. The SPOT is consumer toy. A PLB adheres to the COSPAS/SARSAT "SPECIFICATION FOR COSPAS-SARSAT 406 MHz DISTRESS BEACONS C/S T.001" as revised.

 

[chartbundle]

One thing to note is that a true PLB has a 121.5 homing signal. I've heard of stories of people having a Spot/Delorme and the last GPS position received was some distance away from the user(due to their moving or whatever). In wilderness areas even 100 yards could be a huge area to try and search. Whereas if you're in dense brush with a 121.5 transmitter on you I can pretty much walk right up to where your PLB is.

 

[James331]

Call it what you like. The SPOT is consumer toy. A PLB adheres to the COSPAS/SARSAT "SPECIFICATION FOR COSPAS-SARSAT 406 MHz DISTRESS BEACONS C/S T.001" as revised.

Lolz

I have a GPS 406 EPIRB, and the fact that some "authorized" party tested it means little to me, honestly non of this stuff is TSOed, what I really care about is the success rate and PIREPs on the device.

Go ask around on sites like backcountrypilot, you'll find way more fans of SPOTs, and really if you start tearing these devices apart you'll find the build quality more or less the same, if anything the SPOTs seem to meet harsher duty and pull through.

Add to that with a SPOT I can notify individuals, I'd rather have one of my people start and confirm government workers are looking for me, on that note for seaplane ops I'll get a faster rescue or field mx from my friends than CAP or the local cop helo.

 

[Silvaire]

If your PLB goes off the first thing SAR is going to do is make contact with the person you have listed on your registration.

One thing never mentioned about the SPOT is that if you are constantly transmitting "I'm Okay" emails and then something goes wrong with the device, like you run out of batteries or maybe you just forget then a false alarm is triggered because the person is worried why they haven't gotten an "I'm Okay" message.

 

[dans2992]

Government approval paperwork means little.

I have a built-in 406 ELT on the aircraft, but carry the Delorme.

If I'm down in the wilderness, with an official PLB, I'm pressing a button and crossing my fingers. Maybe the device has failed and I don't even know it.

With the Delorme, I'm communicating with the rescue center asking "when are you guys coming"? Will you be here today, or do I need to make it through the night on my own, etc.

 

[James331]

If your PLB goes off the first thing SAR is going to do is make contact with the person you have listed on your registration.

One thing never mentioned about the SPOT is that if you are constantly transmitting "I'm Okay" emails and then something goes wrong with the device, like you run out of batteries or maybe you just forget then a false alarm is triggered because the person is worried why they haven't gotten an "I'm Okay" message.

That's your choice if you want to use the SPOT like that.

Besides they all have cig power adapters like everything else.

All the guys I know just send a "I'm OK" at each point of landing, even if you didn't plug it in that leaves tons and tons of power reserve if things go sideways.

 

[dans2992]

Carry extra AA batteries. Problem solved.

 

[cgrab]

Airdale-thanks for the info. Everywhere I travel is within cell service so I won't be paying for a subscription service.
I'm leaning to the Fastfind 220. The signal light is a nice feature and they all seem to be about the same cost.

 

[Silvaire]

That's your choice if you want to use the SPOT like that...

True, I was just mentioning that when people do do that and then a message doesn't get through (for whatever reason) it's a setup for a false alarm. Conversely, if you were stuck somewhere that didn't have a land line phone or cell service and wanted to ensure that it was known that you are okay a device such as SPOT would come in handy. I'm just not interested in paying the subscriber fees for such an off chance possibility. Nor am I interested in paying extra for the tracking features or leaving bread crumb trails everywhere I go.

But, like you said, personal choice and it's not that expensive if you want it. You could actually have both and not get put in the poor house but if I were to have only one or the other I'd go with the PLB.

 

[jesse]

I've had one in my Flybaby for a few years now that I attach to my parachute. I haven't tested it in well a few years either. I suppose I should.

I do make sure I bring it with me if I'm going to be flying through the rockies or something like that.

 

[denverpilot]

They are monitored by the companies that market them. The level of initial and recurrent training of the monitoring personnel is determined by people trying to make a profit. They are also only loosely connected to the COSPAS/SARSAT system. I know that LockMart/Flight Service have been working to get them more effectively plugged in, however.

While I enjoyed the comments, you argued all the wrong things to argue PLB vs Commercial Device.

Training of dispatchers: We once had a call from the Air Force asking us to "search the Colorado Front Range". So I'm guessing the same problem exists with certain doofus Lieutenants at a particular inland SAR facility.

The lead contact person asked the doofus Lieutenant to put the sergeant on the phone and then proceeded to tell the sergeant to have the butter bar look at the scale on the map to see just how large Colorado is and to call back when they had just a TINY bit better idea where they'd like the search to be concentrated, and hung up on them.

Keep in mind that below the Sarge there were a number of people who were also significantly smarter than the said Lieutenant, probably.

As far as "connected to COSPAS/SARSAT"
goes, it has zero meaning.

The government run satellite based stuff gets routed to USAF since they're in charge of inland SAR, and they contact whoever is in the book for each State, where SAR laws vary significantly. In my State, aircraft stuff is sent to CAP as a State agency (relatively rare), in many other States the law says the county Sheriff not only is the initial point of contact but is also the only person who can authorize SAR money, even to CAP (Wyoming being the closest neighbor with this mandate. CAP goes nowhere without a Sheriff's approval), and all sorts of other systems.

All that any private entity wishing to initiate SAR activity needs to do, in order to inject the themselves into any State's SAR system, is to simply have the county Sheriffs on speed dial, to begin with, and signed MOUs later on that they'll follow whatever procedure the SAR powers that be, ask them to, in each State. The MOU will clearly define their contact point(s) and there is no need at all to feed anything through USAF. Since the commercial entities don't even know their tracker is in an aircraft, in most states, 99% of the time, they're just contacting the county Sheriff.

If they've asked and been approved, they can also add Federal agencies for places like National Parks and what-not, but the Sheriff already has those folks on speed dial anyway.

Not very hard to integrate to the SAR systems at all. The government satellite systems and the groups that operate them, aren't involved in alerts from commercial entities at all, and have no need to be integrated.

 

[N801BH]

While I enjoyed the comments, you argued all the wrong things to argue PLB vs Commercial Device.

Training of dispatchers: We once had a call from the Air Force asking us to "search the Colorado Front Range". So I'm guessing the same problem exists with certain doofus Lieutenants at a particular inland SAR facility.

The lead contact person asked the doofus Lieutenant to put the sergeant on the phone and then proceeded to tell the sergeant to have the butter bar look at the scale on the map to see just how large Colorado is and to call back when they had just a TINY bit better idea where they'd like the search to be concentrated, and hung up on them.

Keep in mind that below the Sarge there were a number of people who were also significantly smarter than the said Lieutenant, probably.

As far as "connected to COSPAS/SARSAT"
goes, it has zero meaning.

The government run satellite based stuff gets routed to USAF since they're in charge of inland SAR, and they contact whoever is in the book for each State, where SAR laws vary significantly. In my State, aircraft stuff is sent to CAP as a State agency (relatively rare), in many other States the law says the county Sheriff not only is the initial point of contact but is also the only person who can authorize SAR money, even to CAP (Wyoming being the closest neighbor with this mandate. CAP goes nowhere without a Sheriff's approval), and all sorts of other systems.

All that any private entity wishing to initiate SAR activity needs to do, in order to inject the themselves into any State's SAR system, is to simply have the county Sheriffs on speed dial, to begin with, and signed MOUs later on that they'll follow whatever procedure the SAR powers that be, ask them to, in each State. The MOU will clearly define their contact point(s) and there is no need at all to feed anything through USAF. Since the commercial entities don't even know their tracker is in an aircraft, in most states, 99% of the time, they're just contacting the county Sheriff.

If they've asked and been approved, they can also add Federal agencies for places like National Parks and what-not, but the Sheriff already has those folks on speed dial anyway.

Not very hard to integrate to the SAR systems at all. The government satellite systems and the groups that operate them, aren't involved in alerts from commercial entities at all, and have no need to be integrated.

Nate..... Where this goes off the rails is when a group of highly skilled pilots want to initiate a search and the CAP clowns throw up a TFR to keep out decent people who just want to.. and CAN help.. Out of the CAP's sand box so they can claim the find to justify their existence....

Remember, big brothers dick is bigger then the publics...

 

[James331]

While I enjoyed the comments, you argued all the wrong things to argue PLB vs Commercial Device.

Training of dispatchers: We once had a call from the Air Force asking us to "search the Colorado Front Range". So I'm guessing the same problem exists with certain doofus Lieutenants at a particular inland SAR facility.

The lead contact person asked the doofus Lieutenant to put the sergeant on the phone and then proceeded to tell the sergeant to have the butter bar look at the scale on the map to see just how large Colorado is and to call back when they had just a TINY bit better idea where they'd like the search to be concentrated, and hung up on them.

Keep in mind that below the Sarge there were a number of people who were also significantly smarter than the said Lieutenant, probably.

As far as "connected to COSPAS/SARSAT"
goes, it has zero meaning.

The government run satellite based stuff gets routed to USAF since they're in charge of inland SAR, and they contact whoever is in the book for each State, where SAR laws vary significantly. In my State, aircraft stuff is sent to CAP as a State agency (relatively rare), in many other States the law says the county Sheriff not only is the initial point of contact but is also the only person who can authorize SAR money, even to CAP (Wyoming being the closest neighbor with this mandate. CAP goes nowhere without a Sheriff's approval), and all sorts of other systems.

All that any private entity wishing to initiate SAR activity needs to do, in order to inject the themselves into any State's SAR system, is to simply have the county Sheriffs on speed dial, to begin with, and signed MOUs later on that they'll follow whatever procedure the SAR powers that be, ask them to, in each State. The MOU will clearly define their contact point(s) and there is no need at all to feed anything through USAF. Since the commercial entities don't even know their tracker is in an aircraft, in most states, 99% of the time, they're just contacting the county Sheriff.

If they've asked and been approved, they can also add Federal agencies for places like National Parks and what-not, but the Sheriff already has those folks on speed dial anyway.

Not very hard to integrate to the SAR systems at all. The government satellite systems and the groups that operate them, aren't involved in alerts from commercial entities at all, and have no need to be integrated.

And this is why you buy a SPOT


I'd rather MY contacts get the distress message and just find my butt, than the local cop shop and some CAP guys who are busy ironing their silly costumes.

My friends can get out to a lake faster, many are EMS, and they are more concerned about me then they are about politics and rules and jurisdiction and phone books.

And yeah, if they need the help they are just as capable to calling the cop shop, also their phone books have way more rescue agency, EMS, and ER numbers.

 

[airdale]

Wow. Quite a blast. Really too much hypothetical and speculative stuff to deal with.

... We once had a call from the Air Force asking us to "search the Colorado Front Range" ...

Well, anecdotes don't make an argument, but I am curious as to who "we" is.

... simply have the county Sheriffs on speed dial, to begin with, and signed MOU ...

MOUs with all 3,000 of them? Right.

... a group of highly skilled pilots want to initiate a search ...

What group? What skills and training? How managed?

... My friends can get out to a lake faster, many are EMS, and they are more concerned about me ...

Earth to James331: Some people fly beyond driving distance from home.

And, all of this blather makes the implicit assumption that the consumer toy is functioning, has a good view of the sky after the crash, and the subscription is paid up.

They are great fun. I have many hours flying with a SPOT. But what I said is accurate: it is not a PLB.

 

[James331]

Earth to James331: Some people fly beyond driving distance from home.

Lol, and...you thought I was going to, what, have my friends drive a frikin minivan onto a remote lake and rescue me

Most have a plane, half are float planes, all know who to call to get chit done, be it a crane, boat, AP IA, or a rotor wing, EMS, or otherwise.

And, all of this blather makes the implicit assumption that the consumer toy is functioning, has a good view of the sky after the crash, and the subscription is paid up.

They are great fun. I have many hours flying with a SPOT. But what I said is accurate: it is not a PLB.

I'm sure you paid a lot of money for your PLB and believe that SARSAT is basically the hand of the heavens, sadly the build quality of your PLB is likely inferior to a SPOT (check out the specs) and the gooberment workers who answer the call will likely, as time has proven, be very slow and inefficient and are only answering the call to get a paycheck.

You go trust your life to CAP clowns and the local boss hoss sherif, contacts on for my SPOT are aviators (ATPs), know the areas I fly, my equipment, have the ability to fly into any place I'm likely to go and have no issue launching to help, with the resources needed for any foreseeable issue I may have.

Thing is, I personally know who gets the call if I hit the button, I know their resolve, I know their abilities and I know their resources, they also happen to be VERY concerned with my life, and will not stop until I'm safe, regardless, can you say the same?

 

[brcase]

And this is why you buy a SPOT


I'd rather MY contacts get the distress message and just find my butt, than the local cop shop and some CAP guys who are busy ironing their silly costumes.

My friends can get out to a lake faster, many are EMS, and they are more concerned about me then they are about politics and rules and jurisdiction and phone books.

And yeah, if they need the help they are just as capable to calling the cop shop, also their phone books have way more rescue agency, EMS, and ER numbers.

Good points, but the best two.

The Spot (devices) tracking also says you haven't crashed, very useful when someone knows there has been a crash but doesn't know who it was, Pull up the tracking and verify your location and tracking.

The Spot is more expensive, but is useful everywhere you go. The PLB/ELT is useless dead weight and money until you need to activate it, then it turns into a gold brick.

Spot is a tool, PLB/ELT is insurance.
Now you get decided where to put your money that will be the most useful to you. Or you can buy both, after all you can't put a price on safety, (One of dumbest things said, because it is always a price/safety calculation)

Brian

 

[ARFlyer]

I have a ResQ that I got for Christmas. I have it strapped to my flight bag with the Velcro. There are quite a few places in Arkansas, especially in the Western half, that people might not find you for a few weeks. I'm not kidding either on the few weeks part. I helped in the air search for a missing forestry pilot that wasn't found for over a week. CAP gave the go head for private help because it was the dead of winter and no one knew where he was located.

If I have to use it I'll rip it off the Velcro and throw it on the glareshield.

 

[N801BH]

I have a ResQ that I got for Christmas. I have it strapped to my flight bag with the Velcro. There are quite a few places in Arkansas, especially in the Western half, that people might not find you for a few weeks. I'm not kidding either on the few weeks part. I helped in the air search for a missing forestry pilot that wasn't found for over a week. CAP gave the go head for private help because it was the dead of winter and no one knew where he was located.

If I have to use it I'll rip it off the Velcro and throw it on the glareshield.

Glad your CAP group knows when to call out the troops..

Out here , they will leave the TFR up for weeks to keep anyone from stealing their glory..

 

[airdale]

Glad your CAP group knows when to call out the troops..

Out here , they will leave the TFR up for weeks to keep anyone from stealing their glory..

I'm still waiting to hear about your "group of highly skilled pilots" that is being kept out of the search area. What is the group? The skills? And how would their search be managed?

 

[N801BH]

I'm still waiting to hear about your "group of highly skilled pilots" that is being kept out of the search area. What is the group? The skills? And how would their search be managed?

Here is a clue......

Find out what the CAP does..... And DO the EXACT opposite..........

The rest is up to your pre-conceived dreams...

 

[bullwinkle]

I have the waterproof ResQLink. I bought it instead of a 406MHz ELT. The ELT is more money, and my ELT antenna location on the belly gives me low confidence of a transmission after a crash.

The unit seems solid, but I guess I don't really know unless I need it.

 

[bullwinkle]

And this is why you buy a SPOT


I'd rather MY contacts get the distress message and just find my butt, than the local cop shop and some CAP guys who are busy ironing their silly costumes.

My friends can get out to a lake faster, many are EMS, and they are more concerned about me then they are about politics and rules and jurisdiction and phone books.

And yeah, if they need the help they are just as capable to calling the cop shop, also their phone books have way more rescue agency, EMS, and ER numbers.

What happens when you are 400 miles from home when you go down? Is your Bubba Brigade going to immediately drop everything and swarm to your last known location, learn all the local terrain and landmarks, and come get you?

I can see the argument for Spot plus PLB, but not Spot instead of PLB.