Thoughts on FAA/EAA's response to Jack Roush's Accident

Jay Honeck

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Jay Honeck
First, let me start by thanking the hundreds of EAA volunteers who did an OUTSTANDING job in Oshkosh, dealing with a cataclysmic flood. They performed a Herculean effort this year, and (as always) I tip my hat to them.

I would also like to thank EAA itself, for reacting admirably to a terrible situation. They were able to react and move quickly and efficiently in the face of astoundingly bad field conditions.

All the good stuff said, I think it's time to discuss the p*ss-poor and downright dangerously bad bureaucratic response to Jack Roush's crash in Oshkosh. Once again, both on the ground and in the air, the FAA (and, possibly, EAA -- it can be hard to discern the dividing line at Airventure) has proven how dangerously rigid they can be. Let me 'splain what I mean...

First, an FYI: When the accident occurred, our group was firmly ensconced in our nightly "airshow cocktail" ritual, enjoying the arrivals and departures from our campsite. As any OSH veteran knows, this is the REAL "air show" at Oshkosh, and we've enjoyed it for decades.

There we were, enjoying hops and grains while accompanied by heavenly aircraft noise from all over America, when suddenly things got very quiet. We were far from the Rwy 18R accident site, sitting out in our soggy North 40 camping area (adjacent to Rwy 27), but we knew immediately that something bad had happened when arrivals and departures abruptly ceased at the height of their post-air show pace.

So, we tuned in the tower on our handhelds, and listened to see what we might learn.

The LAST time something like this happened at OSH, several years ago, I was one of the poor saps that got stuck in the Rush and Green Lake "holds". As arrivals continued to pour into the FISK approach from Ripon, the holding pattern grew and grew, until we had a truly unsafe condition developing around those lakes. At times we were three and four planes ABREAST, circling the lake -- a dicey situation, indeed.

Back then, the FISK controllers were apparently allowed to say NOTHING about what was happening on the field. All they would say is "the field is closed, and we expect it to reopen any time". This uninformative statement kept the floodgates of arrivals open, since SURELY it meant that the field was going to reopen soon -- right?

Wrong. If the controllers had only said "There's been an accident on the field, and we don't know how long it will be closed", half of the planes in the hold(s) would've bugged out, heading for Fond du Lac, Appleton, or any of half a dozen other "relievers". Instead, ATC remained mum, and a terribly dangerous situation was allowed to develop over the lakes.

To their credit, the FAA controller in the tower this time around was allowed to explain the situation, mentioning that their had been an "incident" on one of the runways. We were unable to hear the FISK approach controller from the ground, but we presume they, too, were being allowed to tell the truth of the situation, which hopefully helped to relieve the developing situation somewhat.

Still, all of this confusion was caused by bureaucratic bungling of the worst kind. Even though both the Roush and earlier accidents had occurred on Runway 18R, the FAA (and, possibly, EAA?) mandated that the ENTIRE airport be shut down, immediately after the accident. The reason given for this? Because Oshkosh Airport had "insufficient emergency response vehicles and personnel to handle TWO accidents, should a second one occur."

WTF? :dunno:

(For those who don't know, those enormous fire trucks you see at airports are made in Oshkosh, at the Oshkosh Truck factory. As if EAA couldn't find any other airport fire fighters who wouldn't jump at the chance to work the show for a week, in exchange for free admission?)

So, because a "dangerous situation" MIGHT develop on the ground, the bureaucrats assured that one WOULD develop in the air. Brilliant.

Fast forward several years, to Sploshkosh 2010. Jack Roush has now-famously pranged his bizjet into the concrete on Rwy 18. Once again, conditions on the ground are nearly identical. You've got an accident off to the side of one of the three runways serving arrivals, completely out of the way of arrivals or departures on the two remaining runways, but the FAA/EAA closes the ENTIRE airport, immediately.

Within minutes, a dangerous situation begins to develop. Once again, due to governmental intransigence (or, perhaps, ignorance), a relatively minor problem on the ground is allowed to create a major problem in the air. Dozens, perhaps hundreds of aircraft are in the air, with no where to go.

Worse, this time you've got an incredibly pent-up flow of arrivals, due to the terrible field conditions caused by the rains earlier in the week that resulted in a closed field. This was one of the first evenings that camping arrivals were being allowed to land, so you had pilots from all over the country streaming up the FISK approach after the daily airshow, suddenly with no where to go.

All because ONE runway, over a mile away from Rwy 27, was closed? The ignorance and stupidity boggles the mind. The excuse that OSH simply could not handle another emergency should one occur is unacceptable, given the consequences of closing the airport, and IMHO this sort of unsafe reactionary procedure MUST be corrected if Airventure is to continue in Oshkosh. But I digress...

As time ticked past, and pilots on the ground (who still had their engines running) started to become vocally irate, the controllers ultimately relented and allowed departures to resume -- but then they served up the ultimate coup de grace.

8 o'clock inexorably rolled around -- normal field closing time during Airventure. It is light in OSH until 9 PM at this time of year, but did the controllers in the tower (and FAA bureaucrats on the ground) even CONSIDER maybe keeping the field open an extra 30 minutes, to accommodate all those poor guys sitting on the ground (and circling the lakes) endlessly? Did the bureaucrats even CONSIDER that this minor adjustment to their sacred schedules might help dozens (hundreds?) of pilots who had been trying to get to OSH all week?

Hell, no. The clock struck 8, and that was that. If you weren't on the ground, engine shut down, or off their runway and departing, it was "screw you and go away". Those of us sitting in the North 40 were absolutely incredulous when we heard this on the radio. What kind of an ass would DO that?

I, for one, have now seen this sort of self-induced mess happen twice at OSH. Twice, in a matter of a few short years, the FAA has created a truly dangerous situation over Rush and Green Lakes, simply by over-reacting to an incident on the field. By suddenly and completely closing the busiest airport on earth, at the peak arrival time, THEY became the problem -- not Jack Roush -- and someone could have died because of it. To me, that is simply not acceptable management, and we need to make our displeasure known.
 
Amen....

I wonder what arrivals would have been like on 27 though if there were emergency vehicles on 18R (with their lights flashing).... Not a time to have pilots rubber necking to look at the bizjet covered in foam.

That may have been part of their decision making.

I'm interested in your opinion as to the level of communication from EAA on the on-again, off-again arrivals.

It seemed to me that it was hard to get any information at times. The website updates were sporadic (updates promised at 9am, delivered at 10:45, only to be changed an hour later). The information "tone" was more of not wanting to commit on anything, at times, it was like it was written by lawyers (and I married one so I recognize the language) and not pilots.

Heck a simple count of planes landed vesrus planes taking off would be helpful information. Bar graph, something. There were wasn't a lot of information on Sunday.
 
I wonder what arrivals would have been like on 27 though if there were emergency vehicles on 18R (with their lights flashing).... Not a time to have pilots rubber necking to look at the bizjet covered in foam.

It woiuld have been far enough away from the accident site that it wouldn't have been much of an issue. Besides, there are flashing lights on the field for various reasons that it would have probably not even been noticed.

I'm interested in your opinion as to the level of communication from EAA on the on-again, off-again arrivals.

Don't know about Jay, but my opinion was that it SUCKED. The best information out there was the blog the facilities guy was doing. The official EAA info was abysmal.

It seemed to me that it was hard to get any information at times. The website updates were sporadic (updates promised at 9am, delivered at 10:45, only to be changed an hour later). The information "tone" was more of not wanting to commit on anything, at times, it was like it was written by lawyers (and I married one so I recognize the language) and not pilots.

Heck a simple count of planes landed vesrus planes taking off would be helpful information. Bar graph, something. There were wasn't a lot of information on Sunday.

Agree with all the above. Also, one line to the information line and one line to the ATIS line meant that VERY FEW people could get any information at all from those sources.
 
Amen....

I wonder what arrivals would have been like on 27 though if there were emergency vehicles on 18R (with their lights flashing).... Not a time to have pilots rubber necking to look at the bizjet covered in foam.

That may have been part of their decision making.

I don't know. Personally, I am so intensely focussed on the landing procedure at OSH that you could launch SAMs at me, and I'd probably never notice. Flashing lights? I'd never see them. But maybe that's just me.

I'm interested in your opinion as to the level of communication from EAA on the on-again, off-again arrivals.

I was in a somewhat unique position of having three friends working on the ground in OSH, so I was able to call them to see what was happening. Even they were often confused, however, since they were working off what THEY were told.

I can't really fault EAA, though. The conditions were very fluid (sorry!), and changing hourly. Worse, if they made the wrong call, and we were all buried up to our wheel pants in mud, imagine the outcry?

They were in an impossible situation, and performed admirably. I know one volunteer in Vintage who worked over 40 hours "over-time" this year, above and beyond her usual week's worth of scheduled work. That sort of commitment is what makes Airventure work, and is one of the reasons I love EAA.

Somehow, some way, they make hundreds of headstrong, bull-headed, independent pilots all work together toward a common goal every year. After having worked inside airshows and fly-ins, I find that to be absolutely astounding, and they deserve our utmost respect.

Heck a simple count of planes landed vesrus planes taking off would be helpful information. Bar graph, something. There were wasn't a lot of information on Sunday.

That's a cool idea, although I have no idea how to implement it. Ideas, anyone?
 
Agree with all the above. Also, one line to the information line and one line to the ATIS line meant that VERY FEW people could get any information at all from those sources.

I don't know if anyone else noticed, but the OSH ATIS went down on Monday, mid-morning. It died mid-sentence, as we were flying from Racine to Stevens Point. A few minutes later, a "live" controller was heard doing a series of "testing 1-2-3"s on the freq. It remained down until right before we landed at STE.

Strangely, the FISK controllers made no mention of this. I'm sure it contributed to some of the confusion at OSH.

And, of course, within an hour after we landed at STE, they opened the field for arrivals. They weren't allowing aircraft in the N40 yet, though, so these "early" (not!) arrivers were required to set up their tents far from their aircraft.

I'm glad we waited until the next day to fly in. We watched several folks try to move their plane over to the area where their tent was set up, and it wasn't always pretty. There were bunches of "squatters" in the N40, who had set up their tents on any patch of dry land earlier in the week. This meant that the usual taxi-paths were often unavailable, requiring EAA and the CAP kids to adjust accordingly.

All in all, they did a remarkable job, and I feel very sorry for the money EAA lost this year.
 
I am not trying to defend or justify the actions the accident Faa/EAa. However I would like to point out that shutting down because they could not respond to a second accident is very common. in other sports. It is S.O.P. in auto racing. I have waited at many tracks for a second aid car to arrive before racing resumes. I think that one point is a valid concern. DaveR
 
I am not trying to defend or justify the actions the accident Faa/EAa. However I would like to point out that shutting down because they could not respond to a second accident is very common. in other sports. It is S.O.P. in auto racing. I have waited at many tracks for a second aid car to arrive before racing resumes. I think that one point is a valid concern. DaveR

I hear you, but given the potentially dire consequences of abruptly shutting down the world's busiest airport at peak arrival time, with dozens (perhaps hundreds) of amateur pilots streaming up the FISK approach, would you agree that staffing for the possibility of two accidents makes more sense?
 
Devils advocate.

If this year they had staffed for simultaneous events and another aircraft had crashed on 27 while 18 was closed but the rest of the airport was functioning.

What would everyons take be on FAA/EAA responsibility for trying to keep the airport open with the distraction of the first accident increasing the controllers work load?
 
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but the OSH ATIS went down on Monday, mid-morning. It died mid-sentence, as we were flying from Racine to Stevens Point. A few minutes later, a "live" controller was heard doing a series of "testing 1-2-3"s on the freq. It remained down until right before we landed at STE.

"Live" as in real time, not a recorded voice on the ATIS? How do you know?

Strangely, the FISK controllers made no mention of this.

Perhaps nobody told them it was down.
 
I hear you, but given the potentially dire consequences of abruptly shutting down the world's busiest airport at peak arrival time, with dozens (perhaps hundreds) of amateur pilots streaming up the FISK approach, would you agree that staffing for the possibility of two accidents makes more sense?

Where would they get the staffing and equipment?
 
"Live" as in real time, not a recorded voice on the ATIS? How do you know?

Um, well, I suppose it's possible that OSH had a pre-recorded tape of a guy saying "Testing 1,2,3,4,5...5,4,3,2,1, over" on the ATIS frequency over and over again -- but that seems sorta unlikely.

Perhaps nobody told them it was down.

That I can buy.
 
Where would they get the staffing and equipment?

The equipment is made in town. I suspect Oshkosh Truck could be persuaded to donate a truck or three for the week.

Staffing? I personally know two fire-fighters who would jump at the chance to volunteer to work the show. There surely must be hundreds more?

Of course, I don't know the regulatory requirements, so who knows if this is legal.
 
Um, well, I suppose it's possible that OSH had a pre-recorded tape of a guy saying "Testing 1,2,3,4,5...5,4,3,2,1, over" on the ATIS frequency over and over again -- but that seems sorta unlikely.

Really? If they had a problem with the ATIS and wanted to verify it was working properly how would they do it other than recording and broadcasting a test message while listening with an independent receiver?
 
The equipment is made in town. I suspect Oshkosh Truck could be persuaded to donate a truck or three for the week.

I didn't realize these things were built on speculation, I assumed they were built to order. I can't recall ever seeing an Oshkosh Corporation dealership with a lot full of fire and emergency vehicles for sale.

By the way, the Fire & Emergency division is in Appleton. Not distant, but not "in town".

Staffing? I personally know two fire-fighters who would jump at the chance to volunteer to work the show. There surely must be hundreds more?
I would have guessed there were site and equipment specific training and qualification requirements. Another bad assumption on my part?

Of course, I don't know the regulatory requirements, so who knows if this is legal.
You mean you're berating them for not doing something and you don't even know if they could legally do it?

Shame on you.
 
First of all, I'd like to congratulate Jay for taking my place as the resident curmudgeon on the newsgroups. But he has a point. So long as there are human beings on board these machines in command of their operation, there are going to be mishaps, incidents, and accidents.

Is this an isolated situation? Hell no. Even in baseball we've got relief pitchers that only work when the starter goes into the dumper. Accident on the freeway? It doesn't shut the freeway down for hours on end (unless it is a chemical spill that goes across all four lanes). Forest fire? We've got backups to the backups to the backups, some on alert halfway across the country.

So what's wrong with a primary team that is on the field to provide first responder duties and then the phone call goes out to the second team, the one that has undergone the training during the other 51 weeks of the year for just such an occurrence? Yes, it may take half an hour to round them all up and put them in place for the SECOND emergency accident, but it sure as little green apples doesn't shut the field down for a couple of hours, right when the field is at its busiest.

Sure, you may have to prime the pump with field passes for the week to the backups who, in return, agree that on certain days they will be within some time limit of being ready to roll. DOes that cost anything? Other than a dime a wristband, not a damned thing. Does that let you do backups to the backups? You bet it does, and for chump change.

I have to agree with Jay. Crisis management at Oshkosh needs some thought and planning. As to the legal mumbo jumbo that seems to be the operative method of conducting business, I refer you to Henry VI part 2, Act IV, scene II, and Jack Cade's remarks about lawyers.

Jim
 
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Really? If they had a problem with the ATIS and wanted to verify it was working properly how would they do it other than recording and broadcasting a test message while listening with an independent receiver?

That was the mystery. They were broadcasting "live" on the ATIS frequency over and over again, clearly trying to see if it was working. It was working (obviously, since we could hear them), but they were acting like they weren't sure if it was broadcasting.

Dunno what was going on there.
 
You mean you're berating them for not doing something and you don't even know if they could legally do it?

Shame on you.

Wow. Is it Sunday already, Mr. Holier-Than-Thou?

To clarify, I'm berating the results of what they did, and offering a potential solution for the future. What are you doing?
 
First of all, I'd like to congratulate Jay for taking my place as the resident curmudgeon on the newsgroups.

Although I am honored, I cannot accept the award. NO ONE could ever "take your place" on the groups, Jim! B)

(By the way -- did you get the picture I sent you of your chairs in "The Circle" during the party at the N40? You were there in spirit, if not in the flesh...)

As to the legal mumbo jumbo that seems to be the operative method of conducting business, I refer you to Henry IV part 2, Act IV, scene II, and Jack Cade's remarks about lawyers.

You've got to love a man who quotes Shakespeare on a piloting group... :cheerswine:
 
That was the mystery. They were broadcasting "live" on the ATIS frequency over and over again, clearly trying to see if it was working. It was working (obviously, since we could hear them), but they were acting like they weren't sure if it was broadcasting.

I think it unlikely the ATIS equipment has the capability of broadcasting a "live" voice.
 
Wow. Is it Sunday already, Mr. Holier-Than-Thou?

No, today is Saturday. Perhaps you should consider a calendar watch.

To clarify, I'm berating the results of what they did, and offering a potential solution for the future. What are you doing?

I'm questioning your potential solution.
 
I love how everyone on here is nitpicking arguing with each other whether or not they can broadcast "live" on ATIS Frequency. Obviously if they were on there going "testing 1,2,3..." they are able to get on the frequency "live" and check it out. Why don't we stop arguing with each other and trying to one up one another.
 
I love how everyone on here is nitpicking arguing with each other whether or not they can broadcast "live" on ATIS Frequency. Obviously if they were on there going "testing 1,2,3..." they are able to get on the frequency "live" and check it out. Why don't we stop arguing with each other and trying to one up one another.

I have personally broadcast live on the ATIS channel.

1 UP!

Yeah, I forgot to switch back to com 1 and stepped on the ATIS.
 
I love how everyone on here is nitpicking arguing with each other whether or not they can broadcast "live" on ATIS Frequency. Obviously if they were on there going "testing 1,2,3..." they are able to get on the frequency "live" and check it out. Why don't we stop arguing with each other and trying to one up one another.

Why is it obvious that that was a "live" voice? Would broadcasting a "live" test message establish that the system was working as designed, which is to continually broadcast a recorded message?
 
Why is it obvious that that was a "live" voice? Would broadcasting a "live" test message establish that the system was working as designed, which is to continually broadcast a recorded message?

If nothing else, it would prove the transmitter was working properly.
 
As to the legal mumbo jumbo that seems to be the operative method of conducting business, I refer you to Henry VI part 2, Act IV, scene II, and Jack Cade's remarks about lawyers.

We all get frustrated with the legal system, especially as it applies to aviation, but it's important to know that Cade's remarks were part of a strategy for establishing tyranny.
 
I am not trying to defend or justify the actions the accident Faa/EAa. However I would like to point out that shutting down because they could not respond to a second accident is very common. in other sports. It is S.O.P. in auto racing. I have waited at many tracks for a second aid car to arrive before racing resumes. I think that one point is a valid concern. DaveR

Do you suppose that would be true if you could (yellow flag) hold your race position and move over to an identical clean track a mile away from the accident?

JIm
 
No, which ATIS systems. Make? Model?


What was the make and model of the distributor on your automobile that you were driving in 1970?

Remember, back then we were all using electronic equipment that glowed in the dark and kept the room warm.

Jim
 
Well, don't keep it to yourself. 'Splain it!

If you have a malfunction in a system and don't know where the problem originates, you can often divide the system into two smaller subsystems (hence "bifurcation") and test each individually to find out which works and which doesn't. That narrows down the search for the cause. The process can then be repeated on the half of the system that is malfunctioning.
 
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