Thought about an old tractor

cowman

cowman

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Cowman
Been thinking for some time, bought a trailer so I could stop thinking and start getting.

Its a Massey Ferguson 65 diesel, 1964 model if I decided the serial right. Have the usual pile of issues to fix and farmer fixes to un-fix with any old tractor but all the important stuff works. Should be fun getting it ready for work. Thinking about going the extra mile and repainting it over the winter.

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Even though I just bought a new one, I still have a soft spot for these old ones. They’re built like tanks.

It simply has become an operator problem.

Here’s hoping you can keep that old beast running and doing useful stuff.

I decided not to trade in the Ford. I’ll try to find it a home where someone has more time than money and wants a project.
 
Boy does that bring back memories. My Dad had one that was a dead ringer for yours. 3-cylinder diesel, I think it was a 1961.
 
I love old tractors. I use a 63 Ford 4000 for chores around the farm. There is remarkably little wrong with it after having been used for almos 60 years. The thing will likely out live me.
 
Painted and swapped the loader over from an 8N in poor condition.

This tractor had the Sherman under-drive and I added a power-steering conversion.

Ready for another 70 years of work. 58785F95-4512-4455-80AC-43346876E61C.jpeg
 
I have one. A 58 English 65 with a 4 cylinder Perkins AD 192. Same motor as the US ww2 era jeeps. You probably have the 203. Great tractor. I see yours has the Cessna power steering pump, that's good, as replacements can be had. You also have the gooseneck steering arms, so mounting a front aux hydraulic pump is an easy task. Tires and sheetmetal are good.

If you want to do more than raise and lower the lift arms, the stock hydraulics are poop.

I have the service manuals if you need specs.
 
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We love old tractors in this house. Our M-F is a 165 gasser, and that's the primary work tractor that does the mowing. These old things we have just keep on going. Very cool.
 
Man I love those old Massey's.

First tractor I ever operated solo was a MF-135 with a 3pt disc working skip-rows in dad's cotton when I was 7-8 y/o. Then dinked around the garden or bush hogging or pulling a 10' JD disc over the old wheat stubble before sowing fescue with my grandad's MF-265. Then bailed hay with his 265 then 275. Then my Uncle got the itch to help out and 'upgraded' to a MF-383 (WITH A CAB!), so I bailed hay with that one summer.

Still hoping some day to have enough land to justify picking up a 165/265-ish size to tinker with and show my boys how to maintain and tinker on around the homestead.
 
If fixed up and maintained, the old tractor will be running and getting around longer than one you buy in 2020 when all the plastic parts have cracked and fallen off.
 
In hay season I hook mine up to a NH 68 square baler, also 1958 vintage, as am I. Together, we look like a rolling anachronism, a little worse for wear, all of our paint a little faded but still getting the job done.

Or a rolling pile of junk...whichever you please.
 
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When I was a kid on the farm we had a Massey 50 that looked pretty much identical to this one except for the height. It had a continental gas engine and it was the first tractor my dad let me drive- sending me out to brush hog weeds in the cow pasture. Seeing my kid on it today I noticed a wrench I'd been using laying on the running boards with my dad's name engraved on it. Kinda gave me a feeling of 3 generations connecting in a roundabout way. This tractor is going to be functional but I'd be lying if I said those memories didn't play into wanting one of this generation of MF specifically.

I've had a chance to go over it a bit and ordered the first round of parts.

So far we're needing..
Right side inner/outer tie rods.
Rebuild of the inop Delco generator(yes, generator not alternator)
new radiator or rebuild of the old one
belt & hoses
new temp gauge
seat cushions
possibly a new hydraulic strainer
either a new steering wheel or a cover to prevent hands turning black when handling the steering wheel(common issue on old tractors)
Most of the (minimal) wiring replaced
New shifter boots
There's evidence of a few seeps along the diesel lift pump and lines but nothing serious, probably if I just shut the fuel valve off after use it would be a non-issue.

I drained the transmission fluid/hydraulic oil which had the color of baby diarrhea and refilled with new.... water in oil no doubt from condensation/leaking boots around shifters which is very common on old tractors kept outdoors. I did throw a bale spear on it and it demonstrated it can pick up a round bale. Won't run it much more until I get the tie rod replaced... someone had previously fixed it by wrapping baling wire around it so it couldn't fall out. I want something more substantial than baling wire preventing me from abrupt loss of steering before running around too much on it.

Chip Sylverne said:
I have one. A 58 English 65 with a 4 cylinder Perkins AD 192. Same motor as the US ww2 era jeeps. You probably have the 203. Great tractor. I see yours has the Cessna power steering pump, that's good, as replacements can be had. You also have the gooseneck steering arms, so mounting a front aux hydraulic pump is an easy task. Tires and sheetmetal are good.

If you want to do more than raise and lower the lift arms, the stock hydraulics are poop.

I have the service manuals if you need specs.
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Cool! I ordered manuals first thing, so waiting on that. This one has the adapter to put one hydraulic remote on it.... putting those levers in various positions seems to effect the speed the 3pt arms move. I'm almost wondering if I should just get the cover plate and delete that altogether. Only thing I have that uses a remote is my tow-behind sickle mower and I may seek out a 3pt version and have no need of that stuff anyway.


Chip Sylverne said:
In hay season I hook mine up to a NH 68 square baler, also 1958 vintage, as am I. Together, we look like a rolling anachronism, a little worse for wear, all of our paint a little faded but still getting the job done.

Or a rolling pile of junk...whichever you please.
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Funny you should mention that, I have a New Holland 65 baler of about the same vintage that's just a bit much for my 30hp compact tractor to run and one of the main intended uses for this machine.
 
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Kids do love old tractors. When we moved here our son was 2.5, and I took him to buy our MF165. I spent many hours mowing with a kid on my lap, often times napping. I have a very similar picture of my son sitting on our Allis Chalmers D17 front end loader when we bought it (guess that was over 5 years ago now).

The kids have about all almost outgrown tractor rides; I suppose the girls still will sit on my lap for some. Now the boy is driving the Ford 9N himself and keeps on asking when I’ll let him drive the Farmall H. I have them starting to drive the riding mowers. I’m picking up another one later this week so we can have two kids mowing at the same time. :)
 
I've got a Ferguson TO-30 (gas), a Massey Ferguson 150 (diesel), and a Massey Ferguson 205 (diesel). All 3 have some sort of stuff that need done to them, but I'm in the 3 of them way less than I would be a small 20 hp sub-compact of any flavor today.

Easiest job is probably the MF205, needs a clutch. The TO-30, its needing a head gasket (at a minimum), and the MF150, has got some sort of issue yet to be determined, but it's way down on power and doesn't like to start.
 
A tip that may save you some pain and heartache. Always return the fuel cut-off on that CAV injector pump back to the on position after you shut down. The valve has a tendency to stick in the off position if you leave it pulled out. Learned that the hard way, I can just about disassemble the top cover in my sleep.

I run my 68 baler, a NH 426 chain round baler, a 469 hay bine and a 450 manure spreader with the 65. None of it gives it much trouble. If you have flat ground, so much the better. That hydraulic pump puts out all of about 4gpm, so before I installed the front pump just raising the tailgate on the spreader was an exercise in patience.

The draft and lift levers on the side are for the " Ferguson System". You set the plow or disk at the depth you want with the draft lever, and a small rod and spring arrangement in the trans top cover automatically adjusts and keeps the depth uniform. What generally happens is the rubber boot rots, water gets in there and seized the rod.

Don't forget to check the lube in the final drive planetaries. Changing the bearings in there is no picnic, and parts are getting hard to find. Those trumpets are heavy!

Busflyer's recommendation of YT is spot on. The forum is good, but the sponsor is also a source of parts at good prices, and great customer service.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
A tip that may save you some pain and heartache. Always return the fuel cut-off on that CAV injector pump back to the on position after you shut down. The valve has a tendency to stick in the off position if you leave it pulled out. Learned that the hard way, I can just about disassemble the top cover in my sleep.

I run my 68 baler, a NH 426 chain round baler, a 469 hay bine and a 450 manure spreader with the 65. None of it gives it much trouble. If you have flat ground, so much the better. That hydraulic pump puts out all of about 4gpm, so before I installed the front pump just raising the tailgate on the spreader was an exercise in patience.

The draft and lift levers on the side are for the " Ferguson System". You set the plow or disk at the depth you want with the draft lever, and a small rod and spring arrangement in the trans top cover automatically adjusts and keeps the depth uniform. What generally happens is the rubber boot rots, water gets in there and seized the rod.

Don't forget to check the lube in the final drive planetaries. Changing the bearings in there is no picnic, and parts are getting hard to find. Those trumpets are heavy!

Busflyer's recommendation of YT is spot on. The forum is good, but the sponsor is also a source of parts at good prices, and great customer service.
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Funny you post that, I know that I accidentally did that a few times before I started having issues with my MF150. I really hope that I don't have an injector pump issue, but it's honestly not out of the question.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Funny you post that, I know that I accidentally did that a few times before I started having issues with my MF150. I really hope that I don't have an injector pump issue, but it's honestly not out of the question.
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The CAV injector pumps are bone simple. The cause of this particular problem is that the fuel cut off is operated by a flat metal shaft that pushes it closed, and a light spring pulls it back open when the shaft is retracted. fuel flowing through the pump keeps it lubricated. once stopped, any dirt or residue can settle out and stick that valve in place such that the spring can't open it. The fix is to remove the pump cover, remove the valve, polish it up clean and blow the pump out real good with compressed air. I haven't had the problem since, but I also developed the habit of never leaving the cutoff in the closed position.
 
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Chip Sylverne said:
The CAV injector pumps are bone simple. The cause of this particular problem is that the fuel cut off is operated by a flat metal shaft that pushes it closed, and a light spring pulls it back open when the shaft is retracted. fuel flowing through the pump keeps it lubricated. once stopped, any dirt or residue can settle out and stick that valve in place such that the spring can't open it. The fix is to remove the pump cover, remove the valve, polish it up clean and blow the pump out real good with compressed air. I haven't had the problem since, but I also developed the habit of never leaving the cutoff in the closed position.
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My biggest issue is, I don't think it would run at all if there was an issue with the valve being stuck closed. It runs, just takes forever to get started, to the point that you have to have the battery charger on it to just get it started. I personally think it's got a compression issue of some sort, either a head gasket or a valve sticking issue.
 
You're right, stuck rotary fuel valve is a no-start condition. Easiest way to check the injector pump is to crack the fuel line nuts as the engine is cranking and see if fuel squirts out. If so, an injector pop test might be in order. What's the OAT when you have trouble? Does it have an operating cold-start injector? How's it run once it fires off? If the fuel system hasn't been serviced in re ent history, I'd start there.

What year is your tractor? If it has an indirect injection AD152, those can be pretty hard to start in cool weather without pre-heat. My 192 will crank forever if I don't use the injector side of the switch.
 
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Between growing up on a farm, and working on a neighbor's ranch, I had the pleasure of driving quite the variety of tractors, ranging from the old and busted to the new hotness, to borrow a line from Men in Black.

Most were IH, with some MF, AC, and one very old Ford thrown in. The older ones had a lot of charm.

The most fun, hands down, was the 1940's vintage International Harvester TD6 crawler. We called it the Kitty, since it seemed too small to be called a Cat. Also, it wasn't made by Caterpillar, but that was a secondary concern. The cylinders were dual gas/diesel, and to start it you would pull two big lever arms back to deliver gas and spark to the cylinders, then crank till it fired. You'd let it run for two minutes or so on gas to warm up, then simultaneously slam both levers forward, cutting off gas and spark and turning on the diesel injectors. The engine would nearly come to a stop, then fire on diesel with a most satisfying roar.

It didn't get driven a lot, we mostly used it when a tractor or one of the large farm trucks got stuck somewhere and nothing else had the necessary pulling power. It would unstick anything.

Some beautifully restored examples here:

https://tractors.fandom.com/wiki/International_TD-6

 
That's awesome! I got some hours on an IH T-4 crawler that my granddad converted to power line construction. Had an auger on one side and a boom with winch on the other.

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Some other farm tractor conversions.
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Chip Sylverne said:
You're right, stuck rotary fuel valve is a no-start condition. Easiest way to check the injector pump is to crack the fuel line nuts as the engine is cranking and see if fuel squirts out. If so, an injector pop test might be in order. What's the OAT when you have trouble? Does it have an operating cold-start injector? How's it run once it fires off? If the fuel system hasn't been serviced in re ent history, I'd start there.

What year is your tractor? If it has an indirect injection AD152, those can be pretty hard to start in cool weather without pre-heat. My 192 will crank forever if I don't use the injector side of the switch.
Click to expand...

Not sure what year it is, but it does run, eventually, after you crank it enough. It's got something wrong with it, as a year or two ago, it would start in the winter after 1-2 seconds of cranking, no pre-heat or anything. Now, I have a radiator line pre-heater, a space heater on the oil pan, and then it barely starts after extended cranking periods.

No fancy switch on this model either, just a start position.
 
I gotta say, I'd really like to get a tractor down here in the Central Texas area if anyone ever sees a cheap good deal.
 
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Ted said:
I have them starting to drive the riding mowers. I’m picking up another one later this week so we can have two kids mowing at the same time. :)
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Heh. I picked up an old Snapper (the 'Forrest Gump' kind, as I have been mocked by) for my boys to start learning to drive on. Our yard is so small that the 'tractor' style lawnmower we had was too much to maneuver. The old Snapper was the first 'equipment' I operated solo, so I guess it should work for them too! Added bonus - it's old enough that they'll get to help work on it too! :D
 
CJones said:
Heh. I picked up an old Snapper (the 'Forrest Gump' kind, as I have been mocked by) for my boys to start learning to drive on. Our yard is so small that the 'tractor' style lawnmower we had was too much to maneuver. The old Snapper was the first 'equipment' I operated solo, so I guess it should work for them too! Added bonus - it's old enough that they'll get to help work on it too! :D
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Our son has been operating our Snapper riding mower for 2 summers already, one of the girls started last summer. It’s a super easy to operate machine. This one we’re picking up is older and be more work. But our son can drive the 9N, so he’ll manage.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Craigslist. Get an old Ford, they're a dime a dozen and generally easy to find.
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I've actually got my eyes on something at the moment.
A friend of mine told me to stay away from the Fords... and to make sure I got the three point hitch.
 
I’m happy to report a mechanic neighbor who really needed a small tractor but had less money than time, bought the old Ford today and is already figuring out what needs work.

The Ford lives to work a little longer. Yay.
 
Ted said:
Our son has been operating our Snapper riding mower for 2 summers already, one of the girls started last summer. It’s a super easy to operate machine. This one we’re picking up is older and be more work. But our son can drive the 9N, so he’ll manage.
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We're behind the curve from where I would like to be with the boys. When I was in 1st grade, I soloed 'my' stick shift farm pickup that I drove all over the farm as a go-fer, the MF135 discing skip-rows in cotton, and the cotton picker when I was riding with dad and we ended up on the far side of the field with both the cotton wagon and cotton picker and needed to get both back to the near side of the field. I got my oldest (3rd grade) using the push mower last summer, but now that I've got the Snapper, he'll be the primary mower operator this year. :)

Man.... I'm so glad I grew up on a farm and really wish I could expose my boys to that type of lifestyle more.
 
CJones said:
Man.... I'm so glad I grew up on a farm and really wish I could expose my boys to that type of lifestyle more.
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Me, too. I vividly remember driver's ed--you can get your license at 14 in Idaho, so it's taught in the schools in 9th or 10th grade. Even in the early 70's, it was mostly taught using automatics, but they did bring in a stick shift one week so everyone could learn to drive a stick. You could really tell the farm kids from the townies. Half of the class could get through all four gears in the length of the parking lot, the other half was doing the 'hop, hop, stall' routine over and over and over.
 
Drivers Ed was the first time I drove an automatic. Kept stomping the floor for the clutch that wasn’t there. I had been driving farm equipment including semi tractors for 4-5 years before that.
 
CJones said:
We're behind the curve from where I would like to be with the boys. When I was in 1st grade, I soloed 'my' stick shift farm pickup that I drove all over the farm as a go-fer, the MF135 discing skip-rows in cotton, and the cotton picker when I was riding with dad and we ended up on the far side of the field with both the cotton wagon and cotton picker and needed to get both back to the near side of the field. I got my oldest (3rd grade) using the push mower last summer, but now that I've got the Snapper, he'll be the primary mower operator this year. :)

Man.... I'm so glad I grew up on a farm and really wish I could expose my boys to that type of lifestyle more.
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I’m certainly a proponent of the rural lifestyle and upbringing, as evidenced by where we now live. But your boys certainly lucked out in the parent lottery, and while your suburban life may lack some of the toys and experiences you had, I’ve no doubt they’ll end up just fine, and able to love to the country if they do choose. If I can make the transition from New York City then anyone can.
 
Some bad luck on the tractor, I finally put a PTO implement on it mostly to fool around and test/partly to clear some multi flora rose. It would seem that the PTO clutch is seized, I was able to engage/disengage it just fine without a load on but not now. This tractor has two clutches- one for the regular transmission drivetrain and a second clutch for the PTO.... as far as I can tell the PTO one is stuck and won't release. Tried all the adjustments and no dice. Only other thing I can think of is start it up with the PTO engaged and try to find something heavy enough to drive it into in hopes of loading/shocking the clutch loose.

If that fails IDK what other thing to do besides split the tractor and put a new clutch in it. Not afraid of that, just was hoping to get some use out of it before going to that level of repair.
 
cowman said:
I was able to engage/disengage it just fine without a load on but not now.
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FYI: If the PTO side worked previously that usually indicates the clutch material wasn't rusted to the fly wheel. What you're describing now is that the PTO side of the double-clutch material is worn/missing beyond the adjustment limits. Try lowering the RPMs to idle and/or shutting off the tractor and see if you can engage/disengage the PTO drive. Don't know Massey much but most double-clutches like in my Ford 3000 work the same. Had same problem and when split it to fix clutch found the remains of the PTO clutch material in the bottom of the bell. Good luck.
 
Bell206 said:
FYI: If the PTO side worked previously that usually indicates the clutch material wasn't rusted to the fly wheel. What you're describing now is that the PTO side of the double-clutch material is worn/missing beyond the adjustment limits. Try lowering the RPMs to idle and/or shutting off the tractor and see if you can engage/disengage the PTO drive. Don't know Massey much but most double-clutches like in my Ford 3000 work the same. Had same problem and when split it to fix clutch found the remains of the PTO clutch material in the bottom of the bell. Good luck.
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Well with the power of 20/20 hindsight I don’t think it ever disengaged. I think with no load I was just able to shove the PTO lever in without the clutch... there was a fair amount of grinding till it went in. Again in 20/20 hindsight that should have been obvious but I haven’t been on a double-clutch PTO tractor in 20-some years...
 
Here’s the current state of things. Waiting on a machine shop to resurface the flywheel. This is my first split and it it’s honestly not as hard as it looks as long as one thinks and plans ahead.

I didn’t think the clutch discs looked terrible but while rolling the heavy dual-clutch assembly around a piece of metal fell out- this would have been one of 3 tabs on the pressure plate that were pressed on to release the clutch. So, now we know why. Just have to get the flywheel back and install all the new parts now.
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